I see a lot of posts around brakes and upgrading them from standard due to brake fade when driving hard.
Most of the time I read people advising that the only advisable route is upgrading to an expensive, multi piston, big brake kit.
They are a lot of myths around brakes and "warped discs" plus causes of "brake fade" are probably the biggest of them all.
I've been shot down when I advise people that from my experience a good pad and fluid upgrade is all they may need, people jump on stating that "the standard discs are the problem" or the "one piston caliper is rubbish" when in fact that's probably not the main factor at all (for the vast majority of fast road/occasional track users). Many people claim to have tried upgraded pads with little success but I question wether they have also changed their lines for a firmer pedal feel or bled the system with fluid that's capable of withstanding the temp increases caused by the different friction material of upgraded pads.
Anyway, there's an extremely good article from StopTech here
The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System
-Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths
Personally what I find most interesting and useful in that article is the following:
Ok you could argue that the standard discs being one piece does not dissipate the heat as well as a 2 piece disc which causes the pads to overheat, you would be right to an extent, a 2 piece discs is clearly better but a solid 345mm x 30mm disc as on the S3 8P is a meaty enough size to cope with a lot of abuse.
I would respectfully suggest that the main reasons the bulk of people get "brake fade" are not down to the disc, they're more likely poor pad/fluid choice more than anything.
Anyway.... food for thought?
Most of the time I read people advising that the only advisable route is upgrading to an expensive, multi piston, big brake kit.
They are a lot of myths around brakes and "warped discs" plus causes of "brake fade" are probably the biggest of them all.
I've been shot down when I advise people that from my experience a good pad and fluid upgrade is all they may need, people jump on stating that "the standard discs are the problem" or the "one piston caliper is rubbish" when in fact that's probably not the main factor at all (for the vast majority of fast road/occasional track users). Many people claim to have tried upgraded pads with little success but I question wether they have also changed their lines for a firmer pedal feel or bled the system with fluid that's capable of withstanding the temp increases caused by the different friction material of upgraded pads.
Anyway, there's an extremely good article from StopTech here
The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System
-Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths
Personally what I find most interesting and useful in that article is the following:
MYTH # 3 - A SOFT BRAKE PEDAL IS THE RESULT OF PAD FADE
The all too familiar mushy brake pedal is caused by overheated brake fluid, not overheated pads. Repeated heavy use of the brakes may lead to "brake fade". There are two distinct varieties of brake fade:
A) When the temperature at the interface between the pad and the rotor exceeds the thermal capacity of the pad, the pad loses friction capability due largely to out gassing of the binding agents in the pad compound. The brake pedal remains firm and solid but the car will not stop. The first indication is a distinctive and unpleasant smell which should serve as a warning to back off.
B) When the fluid boils in the calipers air bubbles are formed. Since air is compressible, the brake pedal becomes soft and "mushy" and pedal travel increases. You can probably still stop the car by pumping the pedal but efficient modulation is gone. This is a gradual process with lots of warning.
Ok you could argue that the standard discs being one piece does not dissipate the heat as well as a 2 piece disc which causes the pads to overheat, you would be right to an extent, a 2 piece discs is clearly better but a solid 345mm x 30mm disc as on the S3 8P is a meaty enough size to cope with a lot of abuse.
I would respectfully suggest that the main reasons the bulk of people get "brake fade" are not down to the disc, they're more likely poor pad/fluid choice more than anything.
Anyway.... food for thought?
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