Guys running water meth??

[russwuss]

Hi all,

Looking at my spec sheet and meth is the last thing I need for Stage 2+ so looking for opinions on what system to use, where to install, where to get meth from and general experience of using it..

I've read through a few of the build threads and a popular kit seems the AEM one, why main worry is where to get meth from.

I noticed TPS do a screenwash with <50% meth - does anyone use that?

Thanks!

 

[badger5]

devils own basic 6-30psi kit we use currently, with solenoid upgrade and 4 quart tank.

TPS do indeed sell a screen wash which is <49% meth content. I run this in my leon cupra tfsi

meth is superb companion to k04 1.8t engines in my experience

 

[S3Alex]

Couldn't help noticing this.

I have the AEM kit on mine.

I found most model aircraft stores sell methanol,and at a reasonable price as well(around £8-9 per 5L) and I also use demin water for the mix.

Halfords often sell 5L for around £4.

 

[badger5]

AEM we used to use but their check valves and controllers went all unreliable, so moved away again.. Ironically back to devils own, who's controllers previously also crapped out one time too many on us.

Both AEM and Devils own have new controllers now.... Not tried them myself since.
Keeping it simple

 

[Airs]

I'm looking into the ame thing at the moment but for a different build, I'm quite torn to the devils own kit, seen some good reviews on it too

will keep an eye on this thread to see pals opinions

 

[S3Alex]

AEM we used to use but their check valves and controllers went all unreliable, so moved away again.. Ironically back to devils own, who's controllers previously also crapped out one time too many on us.

Both AEM and Devils own have new controllers now.... Not tried them myself since.
Keeping it simple

We fitted my kit a few yrs ago now,and without jinxing it too much,it's been totally reliable.

I think you have to go with what you know and feel happy with,and this has been fine for me.

 

[warren_S5]

We fitted my kit a few yrs ago now,and without jinxing it too much,it's been totally reliable.

Bravery prize to AlexS3, hopefully that's not the kiss of death chap ;-)

 

[s3dave]

My Kit is AEM apart from the syphoning issues with the check valve as posted above, the progressive controller worked really well, got a D O solonoid to stop the syphon and all seems good..

 

[S3Alex]

Bravery prize to AlexS3, hopefully that's not the kiss of death chap ;-)

At least I'll have had a laugh here first if it is!

 

[badger5]

My Kit is AEM apart from the syphoning issues with the check valve as posted above, the progressive controller worked really well, got a D O solonoid to stop the syphon and all seems good..

oh no dave..

you've only gone and said it....

doh.

 

[russwuss]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Devils Own kit was the one I was looking at... And someone mentioned on VagTalk yesterday that it was the kit you recommended Bill.

How much meth do you all roughly get through? Was reading somewhere it was one tank of meth (30 meth / 70 water) to 1 - 3 full tanks of fuel?

It's tempting.... Just don't like the idea of being totally reliant on having meth when it's mapped, if the pump dies does that mean I'm carless until I can get a new pump? Or just a case of unplugging N75 until I can get a new pump?

Does the Devils Own tank come with a level sensor also?

 

[S3Alex]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Devils Own kit was the one I was looking at... And someone mentioned on VagTalk yesterday that it was the kit you recommended Bill.

How much meth do you all roughly get through? Was reading somewhere it was one tank of meth (30 meth / 70 water) to 1 - 3 full tanks of fuel?

It's tempting.... Just don't like the idea of being totally reliant on having meth when it's mapped, if the pump dies does that mean I'm carless until I can get a new pump? Or just a case of unplugging N75 until I can get a new pump?

Does the Devils Own tank come with a level sensor also?

AFAIK,the Devils Own kit is similar to the AEM and has it's own tank sensor.

On my use,I'd say a 5L tank will last at least 3 tanks of fuel in terms of road use,but less on track,or over a long full throttle run.


For safety,many of us don't have the car timed for WMI,which means if the tank runs dry,you shouldn't have problems,but AEM do have a safety system for use with theirs,and the ECU should pull back if it detects detonation...should that is.

Mine isn't specifically timed for WMI,but it's something we're considering,to maximise the benefit of running it,but in it's current config,it runs conservative timing and fuelling.

 

[badger5]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Devils Own kit was the one I was looking at... And someone mentioned on VagTalk yesterday that it was the kit you recommended Bill.

How much meth do you all roughly get through? Was reading somewhere it was one tank of meth (30 meth / 70 water) to 1 - 3 full tanks of fuel?

It's tempting.... Just don't like the idea of being totally reliant on having meth when it's mapped, if the pump dies does that mean I'm carless until I can get a new pump? Or just a case of unplugging N75 until I can get a new pump?

Does the Devils Own tank come with a level sensor also?

Its all down to how its mapped whether its making use of it or not.... and how much of its extra timing it allows is being used.
It can easily be set to pull timing out when its not working, based on aits... or option to not max out the map on wmi, leaving further CF timing window.. (12 std, increased to 15)

 

[russwuss]

Thanks again for the replies all! Great info here.. Not maximum out the map does seem like the way forward, car is used as a daily - so don't wanna get half way on a long trip and realise I have no meth with nothing I can do about it..

 

[S3Alex]

Thanks again for the replies all! Great info here.. Not maximum out the map does seem like the way forward, car is used as a daily - so don't wanna get half way on a long trip and realise I have no meth with nothing I can do about it..

I think you'd have to try pretty hard to run out.

I always check mine every couple of days,and that leaves plenty of time to top it up.

There's nothing to stop you from using demin water from any service station to tide you over until the next dose of meth so to speak.

 

[vroomtshh]

I think you'd have to try pretty hard to run out.

I always check mine every couple of days,and that leaves plenty of time to top it up.

There's nothing to stop you from using demin water from any service station to tide you over until the next dose of meth so to speak.

I have a small tank (3 quarts) and on a 300 mile round trip, then the day spent on the 1/4 mile, I used roughly half a tank.
I doubt you'd ever run out unless you just didnt check it

 

[S3Alex]

I have a small tank (3 quarts) and on a 300 mile round trip, then the day spent on the 1/4 mile, I used roughly half a tank.
I doubt you'd ever run out unless you just didnt check it

I got through a fair bit on a track day,maybe about 1/2 a tank,but on the road,even a hard run won't get close to that,as you just don't get a long enough run before having to watch the speed.

The mapping and nozzle sizing are also important,as AMD adjusted the start,and maximum levels on mine to take the new turbo into account,with the different boost levels being run,and for sure,it uses more than before,with the 3071,but it's never something that you can't predict and keep in hand some W/M premixed.

I also sometimes keep around 250mls in an alloy canister just in case......hardly ever used it.

 

[IrishDave]

What grade meth do you use. As prices here seem to be compared to what you guy's are paying £9 per gallon, I am looking at between €15 & €20 a litre depending on grade

 

[S3Alex]

What grade meth do you use. As prices here seem to be compared to what you guy's are paying £9 per gallon, I am looking at between €15 & €20 a litre depending on grade

As good as I can get usually.

The stuff from the local model shop is allegedly 99.95% pure so that's cheap enough and easily available.

 

[Bennys3]

Would I see benefits of wmi on a car with decat and a remap?

 

[S3Alex]

Would I see benefits of wmi on a car with decat and a remap?

I think that below big turbo builds and without larger intercoolers the benefits are smaller.

On the other hand if that's where you intend to go its worth doing or if you like the loud pedal all the time.

 

[badger5]

Would I see benefits of wmi on a car with decat and a remap?

yes yes and yes

runs cooler, consistent............ just like it wont without wmi

 

[IrishDave]

@Bill
When you say "uprated solenoid", is this through Devils Own or is it something that is sourced elsewhere.

 

[Westy]

AEMs check valve that's built into the nozzle are useless. I had 2 replacements sent to me from the states and they still leaked. Bill recommended the DO solenoid which wires into the ignition feed and the problem was sorted.

It's all documented in my S3 thread including videos of how bad the syphoning was.

 

[badger5]

@Bill
When you say "uprated solenoid", is this through Devils Own or is it something that is sourced elsewhere.

its on their online site as an extra

 

[IrishDave]

Thanks, but call me stupid, cant find it on their site.

 

[s3dave]

Methanol Injection Solenoid : DevilsOwn Injection

 

[vroomtshh]

WHats the advantage of the solenoid over the check valve? I just have the check valve that comes with the kit and haven't had any issues with siphoning

 

[Westy]

WHats the advantage of the solenoid over the check valve? I just have the check valve that comes with the kit and haven't had any issues with siphoning

The solenoid is mechanical and is either open or closed. The check valve has a spring loaded piece of plastic that is meant to only open at a certain pressure as the WMI is forced down the pipe. They're just a bit too hit and miss for my liking and when you notice your WMI tank is low after being parked up and manage to empty a litre of WM mixture out of your FMIC it's a bit scary.

 

[S3Alex]

The other method of getting around this is to inject below the throttle body,but then you have the potential issue of what methanol may or may not do to the throttle butterfly.

Methanol can render ABS(which certainly the S3 8P's throttle butterfly has) brittle potentially,but on the other side,some of the 8P parts such as the BSH induction piping,have ports for below TB injection.
Mine has used one of those since fitting without issues,although the TB was changed due to an electrical fault which wasn't WMI related.

 

[Westy]

I remember asking the question about fitting the nozzle after the TB as you can get a sandwich plate that goes in between the TB and AIT sensor so you avoid WM potentially wrecking the TB but obviously allowing the AIT sensor to see the cooling. The general opinion was that the mist wouldn't be able to atomise into the charge air as well as it can being positioned just after the FMIC exit pipe.

 

[IrishDave]

Thanks Dave.

 

[S3Alex]

I remember asking the question about fitting the nozzle after the TB as you can get a sandwich plate that goes in between the TB and AIT sensor so you avoid WM potentially wrecking the TB but obviously allowing the AIT sensor to see the cooling. The general opinion was that the mist wouldn't be able to atomise into the charge air as well as it can being positioned just after the FMIC exit pipe.

A company called USRT in the States makes the plates.

Throttle Body Spacer Plates

I actually have one of the TFSi plates that we didn't get around to using or trying,although I guess direct port injection is another alternative for those of us with non-standard manifolds.

 

[badger5]

if you fit after throttle plate you also need to solenoid operate them as they will suck out the wmi under vacuum.

Also, when direct in manifold only, you loose much of the cooling benefit of wmi...

I fit all mine post intercooler.

 

[S3Alex]

if you fit after throttle plate you also need to solenoid operate them as they will suck out the wmi under vacuum.

Also, when direct in manifold only, you loose much of the cooling benefit of wmi...

I fit all mine post intercooler.

Mine is fitted post intercooler and pre TB.

It's nice to find that others do the same,and aren't too fussed about doing that.

 

[badger5]

I've used meth on my 1.8t since 2006

some years one folks are slowly listening and catching on.. lol

 

[russwuss]

Really glad I asked now, so much info here.. Thanks again!

So am I right in saying meth doesn't have to be used to gain more power... You could maintain the same amount of power without the turbo working as hard? Therefore safer for the turbo and possibly the rods as I'll be running less boost?

Gotta get the insurance, MOT and tax out the way this month then I'll be shopping around for some meth
Can't help thinking of a Breaking Bad when talking about meth...

 

[Westy]

Really glad I asked now, so much info here.. Thanks again!

So am I right in saying meth doesn't have to be used to gain more power... You could maintain the same amount of power without the turbo working as hard? Therefore safer for the turbo and possibly the rods as I'll be running less boost?

Gotta get the insurance, MOT and tax out the way this month then I'll be shopping around for some meth
Can't help thinking of a Breaking Bad when talking about meth...

Running meth has the following benefits:

- it lowers Air Intake Temps (water alone will also do this) allowing for more ignition timing, which equals more power (when mapped).

- reduces Exhaust Gas Temps, which again means more power.

- Keeps the engine pretty clean

On a car that's not been mapped to make the most of a meth kit you will just get additional cooling, which is never a bad thing with these engines. I ran mine with just water for a good few months before the car was mapped for meth.

 

[Airs]

Ive just asked a nozzle position question in my build thread, as i didn't want to hi-jack russwuss's thread lol

 

[<tuffty/>]

This is a good read...
VWVortex.com - REFERENCE: 1.8t Water / Methanol (Meth) Injection FAQ

<tuffty/>