Golf R32 6 speed box in a S3?

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ant123456

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Purchased a Audi S3 just other a week ago. Great car but i have a few niggles. First one is the gearbox. This car is currently running 360bhp & 360ib/ft which is great but coupled with the box it makes it a crap drive. I find that 1st, and 2nd gear are way to short for this kind of power. I have been informed by the garrage that has built this that i can fit a 6 speeder from a golf R32. This will give me longer gears. Has this been done to anybodys S3 on this forum? as i can't seem to find any info :think: Also when i change gear on full throttle i have to wait a further few secs for the boost to build up. Will this help cure this problem?

Need to get it sorted as i am fitting a motec ecu so i can run 400/400 as i feel the standard ecu is operating at it's max and i don't want to plough more money into it if i can't cure the gearbox niggle :icon_thumright:
 
Although essentially the same gearbox internally, they are different externally with the bellhousing bolt holes being in different locations. Therefore it won't bolt up. (Information courtesy of Glen a while back :))
 
Stewart said:
Although essentially the same gearbox internally, they are different externally with the bellhousing bolt holes being in different locations. Therefore it won't bolt up. (Information courtesy of Glen a while back :))
Click to expand...

So the gears are not any longer? The Car i have now Is Regals Autosports demo car so i thought (hope) they know what they are recommending.
 
I don't know about the gears, try a Google search for the gear ratios.

What I told you was that it won't physically fit.

You can always go to the massive expense of fitting a whole new gear set like a VW Motorsport gear set but you really need to sit down and analyse the gear ratios to suit your application otherwise you'll be throwing good money after bad.
 
If you are running a big turbo which I guess you will be to get 360BHP or 400BHP then it will be quite laggy lower down in the revs as they come into their own higher up, so probably not much you can do about about the boost.
 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Gear Ratio: [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]1st[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]2nd[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]3rd[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]4th[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]5th[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]6th[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]FINAL DRIVE[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]3.417[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]2.105[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]1.429[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]1.088[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]1.097*[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]0.912*[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]4.200 / 3.316*[/SIZE][/FONT]

these are for the audi s3​
 
1st Gear Ratio:3.36:12nd Gear Ratio:2.09:13rd Gear Ratio:1.47:14th Gear Ratio:1.10:15th Gear Ratio:0.86:16th Gear Ratio:0.72:1Reverse Ratio:3.08:1Final Drive Ratio:4.24:1
 
jeffers999 said:
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Gear Ratio: [/SIZE][/FONT]​


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]1st[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]2nd[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]3rd[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]4th[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]5th[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]6th[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]FINAL DRIVE[/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]3.417[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]2.105[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]1.429[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]1.088[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]1.097*[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]0.912*[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]4.200 / 3.316*[/SIZE][/FONT]​


these are for the audi s3​
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Looks like i'm gonna sell it than as it's no good to me. Thank god i didn't spend 10K+ for this conversion :motz:
 
The problem is, the VR6 sits slanting forward in the engine bay, whereas the 1.8T/16v sits slanting back, towards the bulkhead.
(also bad for handling as the heavy V6 is putting weight forward of the driveline, relatively high up!...anyway, I digress.)

This was the same for 12v VR6 or 24v V6 vs 1.8T/2.0 16v ABF...
The VR6 used a O2A gearbox...so did the 2.0 16v ABF.
The V6 uses a O2M gearbox...so does the 1.8T in quattro form...or a O2J in 5 speed FWD form (O2J is just an O2A with different mounting drive flanges!)

You CAN for a VR6 O2A into a 1.8T/16v...but you have to use the 'big' gearbox casing (bellhousing bit) from the car with the matching engine.
In the same way, you can fit a V6 O2M to a 1.8T...if you fit the 1.8T bellhousing.

Lots of work...but possible.
The mounts are in the same place, I believe.

Not sure if the ratios are different...I don't believe the gear ratios are...but perhaps the diff ratio is...they certainly used to be (VR6 vs 16v)
 
Fit some larger rolling circumferance wheels / tyres. \if you go to evo size 235/40/18s you should get about 7% "longer" gearing than the stock 17 inch avus. With a rev limit of say 7250, you will get a proper 60 in second then, and near 90 in third. it will be a lot better.
Also, you should be careful about ratios if you want more power, if your turbo will do it, then it must be quite laggy if its still a 1.8litre, say spooling from 3500revs, good boost at 4000+.Change your gears and you will slip out of boost in the higher gears unless you really rev it to death.

As for why Regal would tell you the R32 box fits, well maybe they mean it can be made to fit, or maybe they dont know as much as they let on!
what year is your car. The stock ECU will not run out of processing power for a long way yet! There are several 450 -500+hp 18ts running standard managment, its an awesome system!
Did Regal tell you to change to stand alone too? If so, I'd get a second opinion!

What turbo/manifold does your car run?

I have an IHI running about 350hp. it spools strong from 3000 revs, boosts hard from 3500. The additional lag pover the stock k04 is hardly noticeable.
As for your comment yours is no good, mine will pull from 50 in 4th very easily, 60-100 in 4th is 6.02 seconds, 50-80 in 3rd only 5.09s!
its very usuable indeed and makes power well over 7k, although I usually change at this point.
I think unless your car is not mapped so well, it sholod be a very usuable road car indeed. If it has a mahoosive turbo that is very laggy, the last thing you need is longer gearing!
it may be you just need the map tweaking a bit. The BT conversions are sucesptible to fuel quality and timing. Also, if your car is laggy or has a narrow power band, check things like dv, vacuum hoses etc as these can play havoc with drivability and when BTs are fitted, and lots of things moved about, its easy to have problems.
 
Has anbody had the gearbox rebuilt with different gear ratios?
 
yes, a guy (caney I think) had an HPA kit on his TT.

But again, depending on your problem, you may not need it.

Where does your turbo begin to spool and when does the boost really kick in?

What boost is yours running?
 
simch said:
Fit some larger rolling circumferance wheels / tyres. \if you go to evo size 235/40/18s you should get about 7% "longer" gearing than the stock 17 inch avus. With a rev limit of say 7250, you will get a proper 60 in second then, and near 90 in third. it will be a lot better.
Also, you should be careful about ratios if you want more power, if your turbo will do it, then it must be quite laggy if its still a 1.8litre, say spooling from 3500revs, good boost at 4000+.Change your gears and you will slip out of boost in the higher gears unless you really rev it to death.

As for why Regal would tell you the R32 box fits, well maybe they mean it can be made to fit, or maybe they dont know as much as they let on!
what year is your car. The stock ECU will not run out of processing power for a long way yet! There are several 450 -500+hp 18ts running standard managment, its an awesome system!
Did Regal tell you to change to stand alone too? If so, I'd get a second opinion!

What turbo/manifold does your car run?
Click to expand...

This is the spec of the car and a wee pic :) I sold my 500/500 Evo IX GT to fund are new house so the S3 is a stop gap for a year. Wish i didn't buy it now!! Great car but not anything like what i am used to :faint: Anybody in the southwest that you would recommend for a 2nd opinion?

Forged rods and low comp pistons with custom bearing shells, compression lowering head gasket, flowed head with bigger stainless inlet and inconnel exhaust valves and heavy duty valve springs. 4 branch ceramic coated exhaust manifold with GT28RS-71 turbo. Full 2 ¾ " exhaust with Bastuck single back box system. Sports cat. EVOMS V-Flow intake, EVOMS' diverter valve, Sachs racing organic clutch, thermal inlet manifold gasket, B&M Short Shift and full VF Engineering engime mount kit.

Also is equipped with an Autometer Boost gauge in NS Performance pod. 'Blue' Haldex controller, STaSIS Alcon based fully floating disc kit on the front combined with alcon 4 pots, and a STaSIS Larger rear disc kit. Koni Coilovers with Ronal RS6 Wheels.

 
Is it still a 1.8, or is it larger capacity? A 1.8 with the 2871 should spool around 3400, start really boosting from 4k on maybe? what is the rev limit?

I think if its around 8k, you probably have only about 3500 revs of powerband from say 4500 to 8000? I'd be careful of changing the ratios to make the gearing longer, (I presume you mena by longer, more road speed per gear).

With your spec, 400hp whould be just about possible on the stock ECU, but it could be if their rollers are pessimistic you already have that.

What sort of power characteristics do you have, ie spool revs, beginning of solid boost, max boost revs, power held until, rev limit etc?

I dont know anyone in the SW, but it may be worth speaking to the various custom map guys out there. JBS, Jabbasport, MRC tuning to name a few. But Regal are pretty respected are they not? It may just be you have a fault somewhere that is something simple that will suddenly make it drive real nice!!

I'd check your DV and if neccessary, try a stock audi one back on it. There are so many stories of problems with piston style and other aftermarket performance DVs that cause havoc with set up. My own brand new bailey was dumped for a stock valve after many hours of head scratching! when placed in an oven, once it got to 85 degrees it stuck, sometimes open, some times half, sometimes shut!
With the stock valve its a different car completely!
 
ant123456 said:
Has anbody had the gearbox rebuilt with different gear ratios?
Click to expand...


There's a few folk running a diesel 6-speed box. Much longer gearing. Or as a more expensive option, Eurospec sports do some very tasty 'boxes.
 
simch said:
Is it still a 1.8, or is it larger capacity? A 1.8 with the 2871 should spool around 3400, start really boosting from 4k on maybe? what is the rev limit?

I think if its around 8k, you probably have only about 3500 revs of powerband from say 4500 to 8000? I'd be careful of changing the ratios to make the gearing longer, (I presume you mena by longer, more road speed per gear).

With your spec, 400hp whould be just about possible on the stock ECU, but it could be if their rollers are pessimistic you already have that.

What sort of power characteristics do you have, ie spool revs, beginning of solid boost, max boost revs, power held until, rev limit etc?
Click to expand...

Yep it's still a 1.8. The car starts boosting at 3k (slowly) than peaks (2bar) 4200-4400. Once on full boost it dosn't drop thougout the powerband. It goes right upto the rev limit which i belive is 8k. The cars great once moving. It's 1st and 2nd which are *****. Those are the gears that i am trying to improve.
 
ChriS3 said:
There's a few folk running a diesel 6-speed box. Much longer gearing. Or as a more expensive option, Eurospec sports do some very tasty 'boxes.
Click to expand...

Hmmm now theres a thought.
 
simch said:
Is it still a 1.8, or is it larger capacity? A 1.8 with the 2871 should spool around 3400, start really boosting from 4k on maybe? what is the rev limit?

I think if its around 8k, you probably have only about 3500 revs of powerband from say 4500 to 8000? I'd be careful of changing the ratios to make the gearing longer, (I presume you mena by longer, more road speed per gear).

With your spec, 400hp whould be just about possible on the stock ECU, but it could be if their rollers are pessimistic you already have that.

What sort of power characteristics do you have, ie spool revs, beginning of solid boost, max boost revs, power held until, rev limit etc?

I dont know anyone in the SW, but it may be worth speaking to the various custom map guys out there. JBS, Jabbasport, MRC tuning to name a few. But Regal are pretty respected are they not? It may just be you have a fault somewhere that is something simple that will suddenly make it drive real nice!!

I'd check your DV and if neccessary, try a stock audi one back on it. There are so many stories of problems with piston style and other aftermarket performance DVs that cause havoc with set up. My own brand new bailey was dumped for a stock valve after many hours of head scratching! when placed in an oven, once it got to 85 degrees it stuck, sometimes open, some times half, sometimes shut!
With the stock valve its a different car completely!
Click to expand...

Do you mean the standard bosch dumpvalve? Also thanks for the advise :icon_thumright:
 
2bar!?!? Is that boost or the VAgcom log of boost, which would be one bar ie 2bar total, 1 bar over atmospheric.?

If your turbo and motr are healthy and its boosting 2bar, I would imagine it should make a lot more than 360hp/lbft.

Oh and yes, its worth trying the stock bosch valve, they can fail but you know straight away if they do and its a "safe" fail. Also, some peeps are using bosch valves from Evos now, they are a bit beefier!
 
simch said:
2bar!?!? Is that boost or the VAgcom log of boost, which would be one bar ie 2bar total, 1 bar over atmospheric.?

If your turbo and motr are healthy and its boosting 2bar, I would imagine it should make a lot more than 360hp/lbft.

Oh and yes, its worth trying the stock bosch valve, they can fail but you know straight away if they do and its a "safe" fail. Also, some peeps are using bosch valves from Evos now, they are a bit beefier!
Click to expand...

Peaks at 30psi on the boost gauge which i belive is 2bar?
 
ChriS3 said:
Caney has that fitted in his TT. I think he got it cheap as an ex-demo, but IIRC he said Vagtech would sypply and fit for £2k.
Click to expand...

Did you not fancy it for yours Chris?
 
audi upgrades
T11OM F said:
Where in the South West Are You?
Click to expand...

Salisbury, wiltshire. between southampton & salisbury.

Does this gearbox give better in gear acceleration?

I would love to have a go before i buy :rockwoot:
 
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