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  1. #1
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    Porsche Cayman S

    My 996 was in for a spot of repair work...so the OPC kindly lent me this:





    ...and it's utterly brilliant.
    I didn't want to give it back.

    It's the first car I've driven since I bought my 996 that I wasn't in a rush to hand back and collect my own car.

    Much more nimble and chuckable than a 911...
    The older 911s (pre 997) were still physical to drive...the 997 less so. More conventional, less 911 like...they don't move about like the 996s or older 911s.
    The Cayman diesn't do 'odd 911 things' either..so I'm struggling to see how a decent spec 997 is worth 25k more than a decent Cayman S...I really am.
    The Cayman S is a quick point to point as my 996.

    Well there you are...I'm impressed.


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  3. #2
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    Didn't like them when they first came out, being an aircooled 911 fan, but they have definitely grown on me. No wonder all the drivers look smug, knowing the've saved 25K!!!!

    S4.

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    they just have the look of a poor mans porsche as does the boxster..... i guess its horses for courses and all that.
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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubplate View Post
    they just have the look of a poor mans porsche as does the boxster..... i guess its horses for courses and all that.
    Maybe they do...
    But if you've driven one, you'll know it's not the case.

    I really am struggling to see how a spec'd up 997 at 85k is better than a spec'd to Cayman S at 60k.
    If the badge is worth 25k to you..so be it.
    But for the drive, dynamically the Cayman seems better...maybe not better - different. But no worse.

    I would have no problem stepping 'down' from a 911 to a Cayman S.


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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by smitch View Post
    Didn't like them when they first came out, being an aircooled 911 fan, but they have definitely grown on me. No wonder all the drivers look smug, knowing the've saved 25K!!!!

    I'm a 911 fan..but I like a 911 to do the things 911s should do (move about, bob about, be physical to drive) but the 997 isn't...
    The facelift 997 seems even more GT than Sports Car too...less 911 like (I'm out in a facelift Carrera S PDK next week so will know more then!)

    But if the 911 isn't doing what a 911 should do anymore...and you don't need the little +2 seats...why not buy the Cayman S?
    I just can't think of any reasons.

    As you say, it explains the smug look on Cayman owners faces.


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  7. #6
    Oranoco's Avatar
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    Your thoughts echo what a fellow Ford forum user said about his Boxster. Porkie as he's known owns 1 996 Turbo, Boxster S, Skyline R34 and up until recently a 600bhp 4x4 3 door Sierra Cosworth.

    He always says how he prefers the drive of his Boxster over the 996 and was really helpfull to me when I was looking at getting a Boxster.

  8. #7
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    I really never bought in to the "you only bought a Boxster becuase you cant afford a 911" hype! In my personal view the rear seats in a 911 are pointless unless your names Frodo and your carrying a ring about and need a fast family runabout to do the shopping as well as avoiding genocidal wizards that are chasing you!! I still hold true that the only reason Porsche carried on making the 911 is because they could, kind of like a two fingered salute to all those that said the rear engine design was rubbish! In truth, it is rubbish, the modern 911's have more electronics than NASA to keep them from flipping into a nearby field, but it works in fairness making the car very quick indeed!

    I do like the Boxster & the Cayman, not just because they're a much more sensible car than a 911 in most situations, but why pay all that more cash for a 911 when you really just dont need to!! Im not having a pop at the 911, its a very clever bit of engineering and they look great, there's just very few situations when the rear seats are of any use at all so why bother coughing up the 25k+ for them!!
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  9. #8
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    How does it handle compared to the 911 Glen? Have you taken it down any twisty roads, how about getting the back end out, how easy is it to control a power slide??

    I got a Supercar thing for my birthday and ill be driving a GT3 tomorrow, along side a 360, P1 and a lotus exige. Have you driven a GT3 Glen? how does that compare to the 911 + cayman.
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    I'm a 911 fan..but I like a 911 to do the things 911s should do (move about, bob about, be physical to drive) .
    I'll second that.

    When i first got my old 911 i actually thought there was a problem with it as it kept wandering about the road. I then realised it was actually following the camber and grooves in the road.

    Never driven another car like it where i was so involved in the driving experience, other than my old mini cooper.

    Cars nowadays are just point and shoot. It probably took me 6 months before i could drive the 911 to it's full potential.
    S4.

  11. #10
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    I too always thought of the Cayman until I studied one in length one afternoon outside my offices.

    Came to conclusion that I would stab someone, cut them into 3 peices and stuff said pieces into a suitcase for one.

    Just have to wait until the wife buys me one.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy19s View Post
    How does it handle compared to the 911 Glen?
    I'd say naturally better...that is more conventionally good.
    Much easier to drive...less effort. Possibly not as rewarding though.
    In terms of what most would consider handling..it's better though, in my view. Certainly compared to the 996.


    Have you taken it down any twisty roads, how about getting the back end out, how easy is it to control a power slide??
    Yeah, drove the same twisty roads in both cars less than 1 hour apart.
    The Cayman turns in easier, moves about less and just seems to be better balanced.
    You can get the back to move quite easily...smaller tyres and lessweight right over the rear make it more adjustable, I think.


    I got a Supercar thing for my birthday and ill be driving a GT3 tomorrow, along side a 360, P1 and a lotus exige. Have you driven a GT3 Glen? how does that compare to the 911 + cayman.
    You'll enjoy that...
    As for the GT3, I've only driven one very briefly and not let lose...but it's not typical 911 at all...it's very focussed and 'hardcore'..not an easy car to drive at all.
    I think the GT3 is still very much a typical 911 of thre accepted sense...the rest of the 'normal' range, maybe not so much so.


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  13. #12
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    Yeah im looking forward to driving the Gt3 so much more over the rest, next being the exige just because i cant wait to see how fast it will go round a bend...

    How would you compare the two porsches with/without traction control, is one more intrusive than the other, is it easier to make mistakes in the cayman when its off.. as its lighter over the back wheels? easy to snap back into position?
    Have you had a true play with it "courtacy car style" or have you been quite easy on it?

    Uncle had a Jag S-type, 2.7 twin turbo deisel courtacy car, was quite fun to play around with, wet or dry that car loves to go sideways, kept up with a 911 turbo which i was impressed/confused about on a short straight road.
    Totally addicted to boost.

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    I like the look f them and would consider the boxter now that the early 2.5's are getting under 10k, although I think I would aim for the 2.7 at the very least but would really want the 3.2, still it would be the wifes car so the 2.5 would be enough
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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranoco View Post
    Your thoughts echo what a fellow Ford forum user said about his Boxster. Porkie as he's known owns 1 996 Turbo, Boxster S, Skyline R34 and up until recently a 600bhp 4x4 3 door Sierra Cosworth.
    Going off point here slightly.....

    Hmmm, i had a Cosworth and was really in to them at one stage, and the most I ever saw from one was about 450hp and that was very very unreliable at that state of tune, and almost undrivable on the road due to massive lag.

    So i think 600bhp from an engine that produced 204 as standard is a bit optimistic, got any dyno runs from it?

    Also 1 glaring error that I can see is that there was no such thing as a 4x4 3 door Sierra Cosworth, all 4x4's were 4 door Sapphire saloons.

    If you're going to lie, research it first!
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro View Post
    Also 1 glaring error that I can see is that there was no such thing as a 4x4 3 door Sierra Cosworth, all 4x4's were 4 door Sapphire saloons.

    If you're going to lie, research it first!
    Not as standard but there are a few "home built specials" knocking about as far as I know.

  17. #16
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    There are many dyno runs for it. It was the famous Reyland 3 door. Proven on numerous occasions. The car along with the Escort (over 700bhp and proven at over 200mph) is an icon of the Ford and RS scene.

    The engine (with builder Martin)


    On the engine dyno


    The results, please not bottom left of screen


    A results sheet from the engine dyno


    Lee's three door was converted to 4x4 by Reyland. There are plenty of clips of the cars doing what they do on YouTube.

    3door


    Escort


    I've been in the RSOC for the last 13 years and have a friend who owns and runs a succesfull Ford tuning company as well as a freind who is the UK distributer for DynoDynamics rolling roads who also teaches mapping. Before accusing me of lying and not doing MY research you should perhaps go and do YOUR research first.
    Last edited by Oranoco; 18th July 2008 at 08:08.

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  18. #17
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    @Oranoco, I have to agree with you about the 3dr 4x4 Cossies, as the Reyland boys used to have their garage just within walking distance from me in Sparkhill (Brum) when i was young, so always used to see them about, they even did a couple of V8 Escort cossies that were good!!

    I think the guys name was Martin wasnt it??

    Theres also a dude called Marco i think who has a very nice Moonstone Blue RS500!!

    @Shy - you got your thing tomorrow, is it the one at Prestwold Hall??

    I finally got round to booking my R8 & Lambo experience in September

  19. #18
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    lol @ the ford argument.. Woops... one of my very good friends is really into his fords, hes got a RS turbo escort cabrolet running about 250 at the wheels, stupid because he can hardly get the power down but even still it does shift and has one of the loudest spooling turbos ive ever heard...

    Anyone heard of the Mercedes engine that cosworth tuned? 190 maybe? a friend of a friend is currently working on a 350bhp model stripped out custom made of fibre glass, custom suspension especially made for it etc.. we're planning on hitting the ring next summer and he's bringing it along, but i havnt actually seen or heard about this car, quite interested if anyone knows anything about it?

    Nilzy.. Im not sure where it is, me and my dad are both going (we both got it for our birthdays), so he sorted out the booking etc, i think its in the oxford area. Looking forward to it. Last bit of burning some serious petroleum before the holiday! i wonder if they'll let me turn the t/c off and go sideways lol.
    I think im going to buy the R8 experience myself only 100, a m8 hired out a lime green gallardo for his bday last summer and we went up and down the country to all the big clubs in it, expensive week, but love the paddle shift especially loved it on the m6 toll road on the way to M2 in manc. Amazing as it was on the road, would love to have it on the track, let me know how you get on, if you enjoyed it, im going to get one too!
    Last edited by Shy19s; 18th July 2008 at 02:15.
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy19s View Post

    Anyone heard of the Mercedes engine that cosworth tuned? 190 maybe? a friend of a friend is currently working on a 350bhp model stripped out custom made of fibre glass, custom suspension especially made for it etc.. we're planning on hitting the ring next summer and he's bringing it along, but i havnt actually seen or heard about this car, quite interested if anyone knows anything about it?
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  21. #20
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    Yeah my m8 was talking about the 2.5 engine, hes rebuilt it from the bottom up, changing cams etc i think he's turbo'd it but im not sure. People who have seen it say looks insane, havnt seen it yet so im excited.
    Totally addicted to boost.

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    was this the same L700NY that spectacularly crashed out of the Gumball ?
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  23. #22
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    Same plate different car.

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  24. #23
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    and coincidently a very similar plate as the Ferrari 355 that mirrored the almost stunt man like move the previous year.... jinxed plate me thinks
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranoco View Post
    There are many dyno runs for it. It was the famous Reyland 3 door. Proven on numerous occasions. The car along with the Escort (over 700bhp and proven at over 200mph) is an icon of the Ford and RS scene.

    The engine (with builder Martin)


    On the engine dyno


    The results, please not bottom left of screen


    A results sheet from the engine dyno


    Lee's three door was converted to 4x4 by Reyland. There are plenty of clips of the cars doing what they do on YouTube.

    3door


    Escort


    I've been in the RSOC for the last 13 years and have a friend who owns and runs a succesfull Ford tuning company as well as a freind who is the UK distributer for DynoDynamics rolling roads who also teaches mapping. Before accusing me of lying and not doing MY research you should perhaps go and do YOUR research first.
    Well i'll eat my ****ing hat!

    Thats not strictly a road car though is it, undrivable still springs to mind.
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  26. #25
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    Always driven to and from events and driven to and from the Ring. He says his 62 year old mum used to drive it toor from events for him. Which figures as he often had both the Cossie and his Skyline at events I've seen him at. He described the brute as a pussy cat.

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  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocko View Post
    I too always thought of the Cayman until I studied one in length one afternoon outside my offices.

    Came to conclusion that I would stab someone, cut them into 3 peices and stuff said pieces into a suitcase for one.

    Just have to wait until the wife buys me one.
    lol rocko..... wonder were you got that idea from!! lol


    i like the cayman, they look alot of fun!

    Now to many mods to list! Lots of power, torque and Leather!

  28. #27
    ALPINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranoco View Post
    There are many dyno runs for it. It was the famous Reyland 3 door. Proven on numerous occasions. The car along with the Escort (over 700bhp and proven at over 200mph) is an icon of the Ford and RS scene.

    The engine (with builder Martin)


    On the engine dyno


    The results, please not bottom left of screen


    A results sheet from the engine dyno


    Lee's three door was converted to 4x4 by Reyland. There are plenty of clips of the cars doing what they do on YouTube.

    3door


    Escort


    I've been in the RSOC for the last 13 years and have a friend who owns and runs a succesfull Ford tuning company as well as a freind who is the UK distributer for DynoDynamics rolling roads who also teaches mapping. Before accusing me of lying and not doing MY research you should perhaps go and do YOUR research first.
    pure creamage!!

    Now to many mods to list! Lots of power, torque and Leather!

  29. #28
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    I was actually saying to my mate the other day that i never see escort cossies nowadays and driving from portsmouth to guildford last sundayt i saw 2 within 20 minutes!!!

    S4.

  30. #29
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    Most Escort Cossies are tucked up in a warm garage these days and used as play things. As much as I love them I wouldn't want one for everyday, apart from anything else the fuel bill would be painfull.

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  31. #30
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    Good post Glen - and yet more evidence why I continue avoiding driving a Cayman S at all cost!

    Seriously, I've not heard a bad word about them and I just know if I drive one I'll want to buy one.
    Jason
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  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy19s View Post
    How would you compare the two porsches with/without traction control, is one more intrusive than the other, is it easier to make mistakes in the cayman when its off.. as its lighter over the back wheels? easy to snap back into position?
    Have you had a true play with it "courtacy car style" or have you been quite easy on it?
    The thing with Porsche's PSM (Porsche Stability Management) system is that you really don't have to turn it off to get the tail to move about...so I don't.
    I've never turned mine off in anger...I have to try to provoke tomfoolery..but there is so much mechanical grip there, it's almost pointless really on the road.
    I never turned the PSM off in the Cayman either.
    I drove the car hard, as I would my own...and treated it as my own in all other respects (warmed it up/down, PSM on etc)...but what you suggest seems accurate, the Cayman will snap back into line with less effort than the 911...presumably to a point.
    The PSM seems smoother when sorting it out..the 996 is very abrupt...the Cayman less so.

    I could see the Cayman spinning in it's own length if you drove like a clot and got it wrong big time...whereas the 911 will always arc it's tail out rather than snap spin.
    But if the truth be know, normal drivers on real roads will find such good chassis and so much mechanical grip make it nearly impossible to spin them if you leave the PSM on and drive with any sort of skill.


    To be fair, my cars are all immaculate, no kerbed wheels, very little stone chips etc...so if I took an OPC car back in any state other than how I take mine in, they would have cause to not lend me anything 'interesting' in the future - and I don't want that!!


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  33. #32
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    I think the PSM does less work in the Cayman than the 911, I found on the 987 S that it cut in earlier and more agressively than the 911. I also found the 987 S an easy car to drive never getting out of shape for a series of corners (not getting progressively late for the corner) like you can in an S3. The 987 turns in slightly better than a 911 definately and from 2009 MY will probably have 320 bhp which is the same as the 996 911 and almost the same as the gen 1 997 911 Carrera that we own. The current Cayman/Boxster S has 295bhp the Boxster RS60 has 303 bhp, the 996 3.4 which ran until 2000 (when it was replaced by the 3.6) had 300 bhp so performance should be comparable.
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