AUDI A6 Rattling Noise & Blue Smoke- HELP

[grigor]

hi guys,

im new to this forum so please try not to be to detailed with me as im am no mechanic, wish i was though with how much ive been quoted.

Rite i bought the 1.9TDi A6 w2000 for 2750, 114,000 on clock no service history.

i though great deal, considering i seen them going for about 3790+.

So i drive it back to leicester from liverpool and take it to a mechanic because of this rattling noise, to all the mechanics ive been, they said its sounds like the hydraulic tappets, these cost about £90 and plus labour to change em, this other mechanic, good friend of mine told me that the car has more problems than that, he said if i took it to audi dealer they would quote me about 1500+ , he started explaining other faults but even he got lost of how many he was metnioning.

Now i need to know what to do some sort of advice, the car rattles from start with cold engine to Hot engine, same noise, if i hold the accelarate padel when the car is still i get blue smoke.

Ive booked my car in for this friday at a local garage, he said there could be three to four things causing all this.

1. Hydraulic tappets not opening up properly
2. not much oil or not the right oil for the engine is used.
3. Timing belt set incorectly so a new timing belt might be needed.
4 . Cam tensioners need to be checked.

So much for a cheap new car.

The bloke quoted me £100 for checking the timing of the belt, and extra 80 for changing it with a new one, he said the belts are 160 alone, but because i know his friend he's doing me a favour.

so what do you guys think, whats is wrong with this car, its a shame considering they are very reliable and strong cars, but i think this one hadn't been looked after very well, tried contacting the bloke and his wife said hes away, which i ery much doubt that but there we go, no chance of oney back just to fix it or sell it.

any advice or explination would be great, thank you.

 

[enda1]

Blue smoke = burning oil.
The lack of service history is the real give away. If the oil wasn't changed on time you could have alot of engine wear leading to oil getting into the combustion chamber and getting burned.
This is what i'd do.
1)Change the oil but use a flushing oil to clean any crap out of the tappets and oil ways then fill with the right oil.
2)Then check if the rattling has gone away if it has then no problem.
3)The timing problem shouldn't cause blue smoke but without a label to tell when the last timing belt change was it will be very hard to tell visually what life is left in the belt. You would need to change the belt anyway for peace of mind and the idler pulleys, check on the diesel forum to get a feel for prices but IIRC around £3-400 is a good estimate.
4)Get a compression check done on the cylinders to make sure there the piston rings are not leaking. This will pressurise the block and can cause oil to be pushed into the combustion chamber and give you the blue smoke.
If you have low compression then the engine is knackered and you'll have a big bill to fix.
If compression is fine but still getting blue smoke then the valve stem guides may be worn and need replacement

 

[grigor]

so in reality i got a lot of things to do to this car.

damn when the price is so cheap it it too good to be true.

im gonna let the bloke change the timing belt anywayz, see if that makes a difference, then if not change the oil, then have a look at the rings, hopefully its not a big problem.

 

[simonwjones]

the rattling could be a timing belt idler pulley. Does the rattle increase in speed when the revs increase?


The mileage isnt that high for the engine, but a oil flush and change will certainly help. make sure whoever does it puts the correct oil in though.

Stafford audi are charging £295 to do a cambelt change on 4 cylinder model like this. They advertise on Ebay. Stoke Audi alos do the same.
The water pump MUST also be changed at the same time. They wont do it without you insisting. A £30 part could cost you another £295 to change if it goes later.

They should charge you an extra £75 ish to do the water pump as well.


Simon

 

[grigor]

the rattling could be a timing belt idler pulley. Does the rattle increase in speed when the revs increase?


The mileage isnt that high for the engine, but a oil flush and change will certainly help. make sure whoever does it puts the correct oil in though.

Stafford audi are charging £295 to do a cambelt change on 4 cylinder model like this. They advertise on Ebay. Stoke Audi alos do the same.
The water pump MUST also be changed at the same time. They wont do it without you insisting. A £30 part could cost you another £295 to change if it goes later.

They should charge you an extra £75 ish to do the water pump as well.


Simon

yes you are correct, there is more rattling when the revs increase, why should the water pump be changed, what can this affect in terms of the problems that i have now?

also how much would you say an engine would cost for my car, just out of curiosity

 

[simonwjones]

I had the cambelt and tensioners changed as condition of the sale when I bought the car. They had supposed to do the waterpump as well as I insisted on it. two months after having the car the water pump started to leak. Saw it early so luckily it was covered under the warranty. I had exactly the same noise, like a wining that got louder as you revved the car. It was the bearing on the idler pully in the centre of the auxilliary belt. Only a cheap part, but hald a strip down AGAIN to change.

The water pump failing, apart from you engine overheating if you miss the first signs, (water dripping from the front of the car), is mainly for peice of mind and the fact that its a common failure in VAG cars and for the sake of the small extra cost when doing the cambelt, it could save you another £400 in labour charges if it needs doing at a later date. Its a big job, trust me I helped my mate do mine.


As far as replacement egine goes fjtwelve is your man, as he has just changed his engine in the same car as mine and yours.

look for his long thread in this section called 2.5tdi q turbochip, or something along those lines, you cant miss it.


You are right the 180 quattro is as common as a chocolate fireguard, which is why I like it so much.


At the end of the date, its a cracking car and I feel my best Audi to date, although I do miss my 2.8q coupe.

Simon

 

[grigor]

oh i see what you mean, yes i think will mention that to him, hopefully he can do it as its not a big job, i hope we are talking about the same noise here, if thats how much i have to spend in that car then its cheap as chips, if not i will be looking at another 400-500 mon top.

ill have a look for that thread about the engine,

ill keep you guys posted on how i get on tomorrow.

thanks for all the help really appreciate it.

 

[grigor]

well guys im back with the news.

i took my car to the garage in the morning and i get a call back at about 11.30, they tell me the problem doesnt lie within the cambelt and i should go down for a discussion and said there is a bigger problem, thats where i literally though here we go new engine.

so i goe down there and the guy starts explaining to me that the cambelt timing is fine, and so are the idler pulleys, but one of them was just a little bit shaky but nothing big, so it wouldnt affect it.

the guys goes it has gotta be the hydraulic tappets thats the only thing that would explain it, and he did say that this was a common problem and it does fail on these engines.

so then here is the legendary quote. i cant remmember the exact figures but there u go.

80 cambelt
45 water pump
102 hydraulic tappets
140 labour (4 hours)
35 oil and filter, sumit like 10 to 40 oil, not exactly sure
10 anti-freeze

and obviously as we live in uk plus 17.5% VAT.

so total came to about 479...

what do you think guys, cheap or not cheap for whats going to be changed.

this will bring the car bilt include how much i paid for it to £3300 cz i brought some tyres as well.

what you think, not bad for that car. and is it worth going ahead with it.

Thanks guys waiting for your reply.

 

[maxlbrown]

for the extra work for the tappits then i would say thats resonable as a cam belt can be 400 upwards on its own but the question is did all this fix your problem as you did not say yes or no or are you waiting for a reply before proceeding.

 

[grigor]

hey,

the car is in the garage, as they are shutting for christmas holidays, they will fix it on thur when they re-open, so i wont no for sure if that has fixed the problem, but i cant see anything else being the problem, every mechanic thinks and says it sounds like the hydraulic tappets, so i took a step and booked it to be changed and then we will see what happpens.

 

[simonwjones]

that sounds reasonable to me. Wouldnt say that hydraulic tappets are a common VAG fault. Do search on here and and see what you can find.

I know that there are a few members on here who are in the trade and may different.


for the overall price though you are also getting the cambelt and water pump done, so for less than £500 thats not bad.

good luck

Simon

 

[RGBArgee]

Sounds like tappets to me... or could it be whippets or labradors collars in the back. You notice this more in an RS6 when the collars hit the rear window when accelerating..

Cheers


R

 

[grigor]

thanks for the replys

anyhow i will have to wait and see guys, nothing else i can do, hopefully that fixes it, i dnt fancy spending any more money on that car, i brought it with all hart and its starting to fade now with all the problems it has.

hopefully this is the end of it, next thing ill do to it is a service around feb time and then go from there on.

 

[grigor]

Hey guys,

I'm back with my car from the mechanics with the oil and filter changed, cam kit and tensioner changed, hydraulic tappets and anti freeze along with the waterpump.

But the noise is still there but has been reduced, so it is not as allowed now but i and my friends can still notice it being there.

the bloke showed me the hydraulic tappets that were on there allready and three of them were broken, chips were found at the top, i dont know what to say,

the guys guy goes to be ****** off so much because if you had not changed it it could of led up to engine being broken really badly, as for the smoke is still smokey but not as much.

he also did mention the hydraulic tappets may take some time to run in, so he said about 250.-300 miles is a good running in period andd the noise might go, if not that what it is.

its an engine with a lot of miles on so he says nothing more you can do to it.

what do you guys think? do they need a running period.

what else is there left to do.?

 

[bigdavie]

yes they do require a run in period mate not much though ! only other thing's i can think of are valve stem oil seals are shot or at worst it needs a set of rings and shells !

 

[Issac Hunt]

If the noise is still present after changing the tappets, which you said were chipped and damaged - This could have caused damage to the camshaft itself.

 

[grigor]

the bloke did assure me that the car was fine, the cam shaft was ok, so he said, i will give them a good running period, i jus hope that the car is fine after a while, i didnt pay 500 for the noise to go down by 50%.

i dnt want to spend more than i have to on this car.

so how much would you say the running period would be roughly, i just hope this car doesnt let me down when i go down to stansted from leicester on the 8th of january.

 

[bigdavie]

tbh i would say if theres any chance of swarf in the engine then 250 miles is too much ! make sure you refill with a quality oil and a new filter ! good luck