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Thread: REMAPPED A5 3.0 TDI vs STOCK S5?????

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    330_2_S3's Avatar
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    REMAPPED A5 3.0 TDI vs STOCK S5?????

    Hi people,

    Selling my S3 was going to go down the BMW route then thought let me have another look at the A5 and the 3.0TDI stuck out like a sore thumb!

    500Nm and 356lb/ft ????

    How would this compare once remapped to an S5? Is only one remapp required to get around 300bhp out of the 3.0 V6?
    MY 07 IMOLA S3 FOR SALE............
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    revo's stage 1 takes it to 275bhp
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    330_2_S3's Avatar
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    Any one done a road test with a 3.0TDI compared to stock a S5?
    MY 07 IMOLA S3 FOR SALE............
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    Quote Originally Posted by 330_2_S3 View Post
    Any one done a road test with a 3.0TDI compared to stock a S5?
    just go to a dealer and ask for test drives on their used stock?
    2006 Phantom Black A3 2.0T S-Line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sub39h View Post
    just go to a dealer and ask for test drives on their used stock?
    Well from a dealer I would have to book to appointments....which I haven't got time to do!

    Just wondering from an OWNERS point of view what people reckon as they would drive the cars daily and not just round a test drive route....
    MY 07 IMOLA S3 FOR SALE............
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    NHN
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    3.0 tdi even on the B7 A4 was a fantastic engine, so on the A5 it has to be better, gives economy with heaps of power imho, my mates got a B7 3.0 tdi remapped & to say it shifts is a tame expression, if I was you I'd get my arse to a dealer & try a quattro 3.0 tdi A5 mate as think it will impress over a BMW in the same category.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 330_2_S3 View Post
    Well from a dealer I would have to book to appointments....which I haven't got time to do!

    Just wondering from an OWNERS point of view what people reckon as they would drive the cars daily and not just round a test drive route....
    then you're effectively asking someone who's owned both and i think you'd be lucky to find someone who had

    also when i test drove an A5 the dealer let me keep the car for a day. no salesman riding shotgun, no test route.
    2006 Phantom Black A3 2.0T S-Line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sub39h View Post
    then you're effectively asking someone who's owned both and i think you'd be lucky to find someone who had

    also when i test drove an A5 the dealer let me keep the car for a day. no salesman riding shotgun, no test route.
    Cheers guys.... got me thinking now. I know theres a few videos on youtube but can't access them from work....will have to wait.

    sub39h what dealer did you go to who let you do that?! lol

    I know the 3.0 TDI is a COMPLETELY different engine and power delivery to the 8P S3 and the fact its a coupe and not a hatch might change things alot but how would it compare?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 330_2_S3 View Post
    Cheers guys.... got me thinking now. I know theres a few videos on youtube but can't access them from work....will have to wait.

    sub39h what dealer did you go to who let you do that?! lol

    I know the 3.0 TDI is a COMPLETELY different engine and power delivery to the 8P S3 and the fact its a coupe and not a hatch might change things alot but how would it compare?
    I would imagine that the A5 would be much more of a "surge" of power, having more cylinders and being a diesel will make it more torquey that then S3

    I had the 2.7TDI engine in a loaned A4 for a week, and that was just gorgeous to drive. A5 3.0TDI is my next car for sure
    Currently driving a 55 plate Ford Mondeo ST. But as Arnie once said...


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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge_don View Post
    I would imagine that the A5 would be much more of a "surge" of power, having more cylinders and being a diesel will make it more torquey that then S3

    I had the 2.7TDI engine in a loaned A4 for a week, and that was just gorgeous to drive. A5 3.0TDI is my next car for sure
    500nm of torque......Crazy
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    From the 240hp 3.0tdi you can have around 300-320hp/650-700nm just with new ecu soft.
    Slow and smoking - A4 2.5TDi+ 220+kw

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    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    3.0 tdi even on the B7 A4 was a fantastic engine, so on the A5 it has to be better, gives economy with heaps of power imho, my mates got a B7 3.0 tdi remapped & to say it shifts is a tame expression, if I was you I'd get my arse to a dealer & try a quattro 3.0 tdi A5 mate as think it will impress over a BMW in the same category.
    It most certainily does mate


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    Quote Originally Posted by diffas View Post
    From the 240hp 3.0tdi you can have around 300-320hp/650-700nm just with new ecu soft.
    300 would be your max and that would be pushing it on a standard car i think.

    I got mine to around 265-280bhp with torque around 580-590nm, although i reckon i could have found somewhere that would do a better job.

    I suppose if i put a full exhaust system etc then maybe i could get more, but to be honest its quick enough.

    As far as im aware the A4 B7 has the RS4 clutch to cope with the high torque aswell, i would assume the A5 3.0 TDI would probably have an S5 clutch.
    Last edited by Dazmo; 22nd February 2011 at 21:24.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmo View Post
    300 would be your max and that would be pushing it on a standard car i think.

    I got mine to around 265-280bhp with torque around 580-590nm, although i reckon i could have found somewhere that would do a better job.

    I suppose if i put a full exhaust system etc then maybe i could get more, but to be honest its quick enough.

    As far as im aware the A4 B7 has the RS4 clutch to cope with the high torque aswell, i would assume the A5 3.0 TDI would probably have an S5 clutch.
    I would have thought that the 3.0TDI would need a more robust clutch than the S5 because of the torque figures?

    Would be interesting to find out
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    Haven't had mine remapped or chipped as I haven't seen the need. The performance of this engine in stock form is phenomenal, and quite enough for the roads / journeys I do. OK, if you were taking your car to track days and such, then a remap might be fun. But my car has to be a reliable cruiser, so it doesn't get thrashed, and I know I'm running it within it's design limits - and still able to cook 90+% of cars on uk roads and return 35-40mpg! Can't be bad.
    A5 3.0TDI Quattro Sport Coupe - 19" Y-Spokes, DVD SatNav Plus, Cruise, B&O, AMI, Electric/Heated Seats, AutoDim RVM, Folding Mirrors, Interior Light Pack, Bluetooth, more...

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    Quote Originally Posted by danjwilson View Post
    Haven't had mine remapped or chipped as I haven't seen the need. The performance of this engine in stock form is phenomenal, and quite enough for the roads / journeys I do. OK, if you were taking your car to track days and such, then a remap might be fun. But my car has to be a reliable cruiser, so it doesn't get thrashed, and I know I'm running it within it's design limits - and still able to cook 90+% of cars on uk roads and return 35-40mpg! Can't be bad.
    A remap doesnt hurt at all if it done correctly.

    Infact a remap simply sets the car up how it should be, smoothes out your gears and can even give you even more economy if you want it.

    I said the same when i bought my 3.0 Tdi A4 but once i had it remapped i was simply gobsmacked at the potential.

    Dont knock it until you have tried it, the best 3-400 you will ever spend.

    And the stock 3.0 TDi engine is capable of much much more, audi simply set the car up to cater for the large demographic ranging from young business drivers to old age retired folk who want to crawl along at 20 in 6th gear. So obviously they cant remap them as standard to just be based on performance or just economy.
    Last edited by Dazmo; 28th February 2011 at 18:41.


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    Most modern remaps will increase your economy figures as well on a modern diesel engine

    The technology that is being developed for diesel ECU's is so advanced nowadays
    Currently driving a 55 plate Ford Mondeo ST. But as Arnie once said...


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    The "problem" I've got is that the S5 is basically the same price as the 3.0TDI on the company car scheme and you get some nice extras like BiXenons and electric Recaro's as standard.... once you add similar extras to a 3.0TDI it's at least the same cost as an S5.... plus I don't do enough mileage to justify the extra MPG I'd get in the TDI...

    Not that much of a problem and with 450Nm in my TDI, I'm massively in favour of a petrol with the same torque and more revs
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    Drove A5 3.0TDI and BMW330d back to back last week. A5 better by some distance. Only thing on the A5 was it gets breathless after 3000rpm and i will be straight around to the remappers if i buy one.
    Oh and for the record i'm running 466ftlb and 266hp and the clutch is fine.
    Last edited by fjtwelve; 6th September 2011 at 16:01.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmo View Post
    300 would be your max and that would be pushing it on a standard car i think.

    I got mine to around 265-280bhp with torque around 580-590nm, although i reckon i could have found somewhere that would do a better job.

    I suppose if i put a full exhaust system etc then maybe i could get more, but to be honest its quick enough.

    As far as im aware the A4 B7 has the RS4 clutch to cope with the high torque aswell, i would assume the A5 3.0 TDI would probably have an S5 clutch.
    It's common practice to throw bmw 335/535 nozzles into the 3.0 tdi and get custom gtb2260VK for over 300 Bhp reliable... There are a few a5's running between 300 and 400 Bhp. The problem is going any bigger as there are no bigger small frame VNT turbochargers wich can supply the amount of air the engine needs for more potential, also the gearboxes are at their torque limit and you need to go custom race clutch to hopld the torque wich means big money !
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    1animal1's Avatar
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    I'd be suprised if you'd beat a stock S5 with a remapped 3.0 TDI.....very suprised
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    I own an A5 3.0 TDI and have driven the S5 V8 and the S4 V6T and unless your willing to red line the petrol engines all the time you'll be just as quick with the TDI ! ( Haven't remapped mine as its still in warranty but 6 months time MTM 300BHP remap on its way.)

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    I think the feel of a TDI's torque distracts you.....side by side is the only way your gonna settle this.

    If i remember correctly an S5 is quicker than my 8P S3, and theres no way on this planet your 3.0 tdi mapped or not would stay with me.... thats a hard fact.....

    It's not a case of red lining, that doesn't come into this, its a case of hitting boost and what it will do from there....
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    To be fair Tim, my mate runs an A4 3.0 tdi, obviously older, but that thing absolutely fecking flies before & after the map & I had an S4 B6 4.2 V8 which although again older tech, really wasnt as quick as you'd think, was heavy as hell, loved the car allot, but power was a slight let down, which is why I personally think a 3.0 tdi would have some real fun with an S5, a mapped A5 would be lovely imho.

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    If thats the case Nige, all I know is from playing with S4's myself in my mapped 8L..... obviously the diesels play is mid range, a map isnt going to make a 7sec car into a sub 5 second..... thats where my thinking was. Mid range I cant see it beating it still as capacity is king especially when mated to a turbo, but then again the 4.2 wasn't was it?

    I'd still be suprised if the tdi was able to stay with the S5 in any gear for more than a couple of seconds
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    Here's a readout of the 4WD figures at the wheels on a 3.0TDI Allroad with Tiptronic that kept changing up from 4th so the readings are a little lower. The standard Audi map was put back on for the lower run, where it did stay in 4th so got a better result. The Audi map is clearly smoother but the newer map gives better economy. The standard map was run second so I think the revised map may have got things nicely warmed up first as 210 at the wheels seems a bit high on a 233 3.0TDI.

    Torque figures weren't available from the dyno but I believe you can allow for quattro and auto losses of about 22% so about 280BHP and there's a torque 'factor' that equates this to around 550NM.


    That said, once away from slow corners/roundabouts, the S5 should just stretch away and reach the speed camera first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allroader View Post
    the S5 should just stretch away and reach the speed camera first.
    lmfao like that.

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    I've been thinking os swapping the S3 for a 3.0tdi too, & looking at the 0-60 times for the S5 vs 3.0tdi theres nothing in it anyway.

    I had a run up against a 3.0tdi A6 years ago when I had my S4 2.7 & I was impressed to say the least. Kept up no probs, but could never pass him!
    Seeing as its almost time for a change, I'm going to be hard pushed to choose between the oil burner & S5...
    Anyone on here got any real advice on the matter? I haven't really studied the two to make a clear cut decision..
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

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    To cut a long story short, having now driven A6 2.7TDI, A5 3.0TDI, S4, BMW330D, BMW320D, BMW525i, in the last 4 weeks or so, i'm looking for an A5 3.0TDI Sport, preferably manual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    I'd be suprised if you'd beat a stock S5 with a remapped 3.0 TDI.....very suprised
    It's funny you brought that up, a few years ago when the 3.0 tdi was launched, MTM had a stage 2 3.0 Tdi(custom turbo and remap) which was a full second faster than the equivalent s6 on Nurburgring. Do not dissmiss the diesels, long gearing and advanced technology of the turbochargers/injection systems has gone a long way, it's just not easy to get conventional gearboxes to hold toghether with all that power. It's not Bhp that break them, it's torque... Do a search on you tube for massimo's a5 3.0 tdi, 12 sec. 1/4 mile is nothing to sniff at !
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    if you are in the northeast you are welcome to have a ride in my remapped a6 to see what potential the engine has.
    V8 baby... oh yeah

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    Gavin who remapped yours & price please, cheers alan. pm if you want.

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    The 3.0TDi engine is a peach, and I can imagine with a remap it's an absolute stormer.

    The S5 is a bit of an oddball as whilst it has the V8 it just feels far too linear in it's power delivery to feel proper fast.

    Out of the 2 I have to say whilst the S5 gets the edge looks wise, the burner is the one I'd choose.
    Audi S5 3.0V6T Coupe Black Edition

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    it was a group buy aranged through here by angel tuning.
    it was £150 http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/group-b...el-tuning.html
    V8 baby... oh yeah

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    If you're looking for an everyday cruiser and clock up the miles then the 3.0 tdi is a lovely car but for me owning an S5 is just that wee bit special, every time you get in and start the v8 it would put a smile on your face. It would also be worth mentioning that the diesel will "feel" faster as it is a turbo, whereas the S5 being normally aspirated will maybe not feel as fast but in reality will probably be quicker, esp from a standing start. It would be worth looking on youtube for an S5 fitted with a supersprint exhaust, might help you decide.

  37. #36
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    the tdi with an abt exhaust sounds lovely too tho lol.
    V8 baby... oh yeah

  38. #37
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    Wink

    my last everyday car was a S6 V10 with a miltek fitted, it was very nice, But now i have a A5 3L tdi it does the job much cheaper,
    and Im ok with it for every day. >>> for fun/track i have a built 2.1 600 bhp type r sti ,

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    hi all, im currently on the mk5 gti site as i own a golf edition 30 im also looking at the a5 3.0tdi and what i have read on here it sounds impressive, going to throw a spanner in has anyone driven the bmw 335d compared to the audi. i love the edition 30 especially as its 306bhp and 335lbs but traction is and issue and fustrating at times hence the change.audi s5 is an option but fuel puts me off a little as my car before the golf was a mustang 4.6 v8 fantastic car but petrol stops became tedious.
    thanks stu

  40. #39
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    Stick to quattro as the rwd will easily break traction with so much torque ! Bmw will offer the 335/535 with 4 wd as they are ditch finders without fancy traction control aids ! my mate has a 330 tourer 2009 and he used to have a mapped a4 v6 2.5 tdi quattro and i and him find the beemer very twitchy even in the dry. I stuck with fwd/quattro...
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  41. #40
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    I think that the S5 pretty much always accelerates faster, the diesel's higher torque is cancelled out by its taller gearing. I did a computation showing that remapping to 600Nm barely makes it as fast as an S4: A4 3.0tdi vs S4 gear ratios However, I'm not sure whether my argument is correct .

    -ilan

 

 
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