K04-15 Turbo Finaly Fitted

Austineer

Austineer

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Guys,

Finaly got the K04-15 fitted on the weekend. And to be honest I am feeling both very happy and a little concerned at the same time. From the happy side first then I have noticed the follwoing differences:-

a) The car go's like F**K and feels so much quicker (felt MUCH bigger gain than chip)
b) Much smoother through low - mid rev range (prob due to increase in torque)
c) Much more power and torgue in mid - high rev range (old K03 just seemed to struggle at this)
d) Gives the 3rd gear a fantastic wallop for overtaking on duel carridge ways (used to feel a bit limp before)
e) Great sound of the turbo spinning up (sounds like it means business)
f) Maybe its just me but the extra power feels a little weird in one sence. By this I mean sometimes it doesnt particularily feel that the engine itself has that much more power just that the car feels so much lighter when accelerating.

Then onto the concerning side. I say this because I am a little worried about the readings on my boost gauge when in the turbo band. Even though the car is perfectly smoooth to drive the readings seem a little high from what I have read on other posts in the forum on the K04 series in general. Here are the reading that I have found with my set up:-

a) When accelerating hard in 1st, 2nd and 3rd the boost gives a max sustained pressure of 1.56 bar (23 psi). Sources suggest that a max sustained pressure should be no more than 1.3 - 1.4 bar
b) When in low revs (2500 - 3200) and in 3rd/4th and I put my foot right down the boost readings went to 1.7 bar + (n.b. gauge only goes to 1.7 bar/25 psi)

Bearing in mind that I am not sure of the accuracey of my boost gauge the readings however do seem at little high. I am a little worried about blowing the engine/turbo at this boost presasure so any advice would be appreciated. My initial thoughts are to change my N75J back to the stock valve to help reduce the overboost.

One thing that I do actually find strange is that fitting the K04-15 without changing the software increases the boost pressure by so much, although I did expected a little increase. I would have thought changing the turbo without the software would have just increased air flow and not boost pressure as the boost should be controlled via the ECU & N75 valve. I want to ensure that I am not in danger of blowing my engine/turbo by running at too high a boost but to be honest would be a little gutted if this ment loosing any of that extra power that I have as the car feels F***ING fast.

So guys your thoughts on this boost pressure would be appreciated.


 
[ QUOTE ]
welshdragon said:
Guys,

Finaly got the K04-15 fitted on the weekend. And to be honest I am feeling both very happy and a little concerned at the same time.

Then onto the concerning side. I say this because I am a little worried about the readings on my boost gauge when in the turbo band. Even though the car is perfectly smoooth to drive the readings seem a little high from what I have read on other posts in the forum on the K04 series in general. Here are the reading that I have found with my set up:-

a) When accelerating hard in 1st, 2nd and 3rd the boost gives a max sustained pressure of 1.56 bar (23 psi). Sources suggest that a max sustained pressure should be no more than 1.3 - 1.4 bar
b) When in low revs (2500 - 3200) and in 3rd/4th and I put my foot right down the boost readings went to 1.7 bar + (n.b. gauge only goes to 1.7 bar/25 psi)

Bearing in mind that I am not sure of the accuracey of my boost gauge the readings however do seem at little high. I am a little worried about blowing the engine/turbo at this boost presasure so any advice would be appreciated. My initial thoughts are to change my N75J back to the stock valve to help reduce the overboost.

So guys your thoughts on this boost pressure would be appreciated.




[/ QUOTE ]

Well first of all, congratulations on your mod. I've done the same and it's soooooooooo good /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Second, my car is also overboosting at 1.7bar when I floor it at low RPM on 3rd and 4th gear! It also reads 1.5bar on second at it's peak. But from what I understand, the car protects itself from overboosting by decreasing it's power! That's why now I need a remap to fix these little glitches. PS: Recently I have felt a loss of power at full throttle but no loss at half throttle...which means that it doesn't really allow itself to overboost.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
G
 
Mat,

I'd be concerned as well as that sounds like way too much boost. Sounds quick though!! But you don't want it to blow! Hopefully someone on here can advise if this is bad or not. The K04 on my golf boosts to 1.5bar peak and drops off to 1 bar at the redline. 1.7 sounds high - could you have a duff gauge? Do you know anyone who can lend you another gauge to try? This is where EGT measurement would be good to see if you are running lean - vagcom gives lambda readings - if you know someone with this it might be worth measuring the lambda at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) to see if it's lean. Also listen for pinking.

I hope to fit the GB K04-015 this weekend if it comes in time, so we'll be able to compare notes. My A4 has a K03 remap too. I'm getting a K04 remap at the end of the month though.
 
Mat,

Try changinf the N75 back to original one and see what happens... You certainly do not want to be running lean, and the N75 on a stock turbo is fine (most of the time) but i wouldnt advise trying to overboost a biger turbo on the map for the K03!

Cheers

Rich
 
When i had my K04 TD fitted i had it done at AMD as the software did need to be changed again after the standard remap, to solve these problems. Im not sure what boost it is running i will have to find the dyno report that they gave me, but they said that it would need changing whit the new turbo.
So i would get another remap done.
 
I am interested that the managment has not backed it all off as its boosting more too...

when the boost is increased the ecu is supposed to see the same boost on its own map (so i have read) - can anyone confirm this?

I was also thinking of getting the GT28R turbo and fitting that.... then doing a remap to suit?? any thoughts..

Andy
 
Simon,

One thing I have just realised that I have forgot to mention is that at the 1.7 bar boost reading the car is completly gutless. There is no light that comes on in the dash but I guess this complete lack of power is the fact that the engine is going into LIMP protection mode. For supposedly well over 200 bhp & 200 lbs of torque the thing couldnt pull away from a snail in 5th form 50-80. It was the same at stock set up but at the time I thought the turbo just struggled to supply enough air but thinking back it did sound as if it was overboosting. Note I first fitted my gauge with 1.0 bar chip and K03 set up.

So I have come to the conclusion that this probelm of overboosting in 4th & 5th at very low revs has always been there of which I first noticed it when I had the guage fitted then the problem increased with the turbo upgrade. Is this something to due with the entire 1.8 T range? engine load? Speed related? Engine load at speed? I havent got a ****** clue bust still dont get why the ECU cuts out boost at 1.5 bar when in the lower gears but not in low revs in 4th & 5th. I must admit this is really starting to bug me now as I travel on the M4 everyday and 5th is my overtaking gear. Anyway I am changing my N75 valve today so will see what difference that makes, so I will keep you posted.
 
Mat,

I think you'll always tend to get more boost in the higher gears at lower rpms due to engine loading. In 1st and 2nd the low rpms don't last long at all, but in 3rd, 4th and 5th the revs take longer to climb and that's when you see your peak boost. I see the same thing on my golf, where I can get almost 1.5bar at say 2500rpm but this slowly drops off to 1bar at 6000rpm. It never feels gutless though.

As for limp mode - to my knowledge you need to turn off the ignition to reset the ECU before it goes away. This was on the Golf though, not sure if the older ECU's have limp mode. On the golf limp mode limits boost to 0.5bar, but as my A4 can't measure boost, maybe it doesn't have limp mode?
 
[ QUOTE ]
simon_golf_tt said:
Mat,

I think you'll always tend to get more boost in the higher gears at lower rpms due to engine loading. In 1st and 2nd the low rpms don't last long at all, but in 3rd, 4th and 5th the revs take longer to climb and that's when you see your peak boost. I see the same thing on my golf, where I can get almost 1.5bar at say 2500rpm but this slowly drops off to 1bar at 6000rpm. It never feels gutless though.

As for limp mode - to my knowledge you need to turn off the ignition to reset the ECU before it goes away. This was on the Golf though, not sure if the older ECU's have limp mode. On the golf limp mode limits boost to 0.5bar, but as my A4 can't measure boost, maybe it doesn't have limp mode?

[/ QUOTE ]

Earlier ones DO have limp mode, but only kicks in if the micture is way out! I had a n*ch of an boost leak on my A3... every few days id have to VAG-COM it and remove the fault code... it came up as "Mixture adaptation period exceeded".... it still boosted, but was nowhere near as quick! only did it after quite a few miles though...possibly about 50!

Rich
 
Simon,

I have just changed my N75 valve back to stock and something startling jumped out at me. When the turbo was changed the vacum hoses (2x10 mm ish diameter) to the N75 valve were replaced. However OEM hoses werent used which I guess causes the problem of the 1.5 bar boost during low gears. I say this because these hoses are controlled metered orifices which supply the sensing element to the N75 valve.

From looking at the replacement hoses I guess that they are probably have a touch bigger internal diameter therefore assisting in providing a false pressure signal to the ECU via the N75 valve. I put the stock N75 valve back on hopfully to reduce the boost a little before I get a pair of OEM hoses from audi. Would be interested in seeing in the results from the following:-

a) changing back to OEM N75 with replacement hoses
b) OEM N75 with new OEM hoses
c) N75J with OEM hoses

I will let you know how I get on. Mind I dont think this will solve the problem with the overboosting & gutless 4th & 5th gear issue just probably reduce it.
 
Mat,

Personnally I'd be surprised if the bore of the vacuum pipe made any difference, unless it was leaking! The N75 valve doen't send anything to the ECU, it's controlled by the ECU isn't it? It controls the wastegate actuator?

Are you going to get a remap? I definitely am - the K03 remap you have won't be suited to the K04. I would get this done before reading too much into what happening.

Hopefully I'll be fitting my K04 from the GB pretty soon and at that point I can let you know what the car is like to drive. If it's similar then maybe it will put your mind at ease?
 
Mat - The N75 is just a solenoid valve - you apply a voltage to it and it opens, it can't measure boost! It's as simple as that, and it's controlled by the ECU. The boost on my A4 is not monitored by the ECU - but on yours it might be (if it's a newer ECU). This will be by a remote sensor connected electrically to the ECU, I don't know where this is actually located.

According to my mate - my ECU will roughly work out boost from the airflow reading from the MAF.
 
Simon,

Fair point on the N75 valve, so looks like I am wrong with that being the primary sensor for the boost pressure. Its just I knew that the ECU must use some form of sensor to control the boost pressure and couldnt think of anything else that could do it. I wouldnt mind knowing whether my ECU uses the MAF as its primary sensor to help calculate the boost pressure or a bespoke sensor somewhere else in the system. But theres got to be something used as the wastegate is electronically controlled and not via means of a pure mechanical system.

Hopefully one day we may even get to understand everything about the old 1.8T which will help us tweak it to our desired effect. Mind with the power of the internet (and this forum) were getting there slowly but surely lol.
 
[ QUOTE ]
welshdragon said:
Hopefully one day we may even get to understand everything about the old 1.8T which will help us tweak it to our desired effect. Mind with the power of the internet (and this forum) were getting there slowly but surely lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of interest - how much do companies you guys use charge for a custom map for your cars?

When I say custom I mean fully customised to your car - tweaked realtime on the road ?
 
Guys,

Finaly changed the N75 valve back to the OEM one last night and noticed the following differnces:-

a) Max sustained boost pressure in 1st, 2nd & 3rd was 1.36-1.42 bar (20-21 psi) which it held firm at with no fluxtuations. Noting that this had decreased from 1.56 bar with the N75J.
b) Max boost in 4th & 5th was still 1.7 bar from 2000-3500 rpm then droped & leveled to 1.36-1.42 bar above 3500 rpm. The 1.7 bar figure in low revs at high gears didnt seem to alter by changing the valve.
c) The car is still a GREAT IMPROVEMENT through the lower gears with the same effects as I mentioned previously but there has been a slight drop in power after changing the valve & reducing the boost pressure.

I see the point about maybe the engine is retarding to protect itself at low revs and high gears but like I mentioned previously the car is like a limp snail accelerating from 50/60 upwards in 5th. I know most cars are in general doing this but mine doesnt feel any quicker than my old 2.0 vectra sri with (a heavier car with 136 bhp/150 lbs torque) in this range yet it would ABSOLUTELY DESTROY it through the lower gears.

I am looking at chatting to my local superchips distributor on the weekend to get in booked in for the software upgrade to match the K04. Hopefully this will sort out the overboost and set it to around the 1.3 bar figure whilst also adjusting fuel/timming etc with it. However I am still not convinced that this will solve my problem with the snail effect in 4th & 5th. This flatspot has always been there I have realy just ignored it before just thought it was a combination of having a turbo car & the old K03 just not being able to supply enough air. Is the car actually really crap at accelerating in high gears in lows revs? What are your cars like to drive guys?

I havent really anything to compare it against (by this I mean another 1.8T audi) but have to say between 50-80 in 5th my audi is no quicker than any other cars that I have owned and they werent quick cars. When the car starts biting in 5th the car should pull away well as it should be well over 200 + bhp and 230 + lbs of torque even with K03 software. Its like it just got a major flat spot. And just to note that when the car hits 80 mph + it pulls like [censored] considering the starting speed until well over the 130 mark. So again any other comments would be appreciated & any offers on comparing it with someone elses car in the south wales area would also be appreciated.


 
One thing i forgot to mention... Doug reminded me! It would be best to run your cars on 98RON fuel... This will help to prevent knock/detonation/pinking as it wont pre-ignite like low octane fuel does! If necessary add Millers Octane Plus to your fuel to boost the octant level.

Mat,

TO me it sounds like you have a problem that has ust made itself more apparent. You certainly dont want to be running 1.7bar with incorrect fuelling! This is guaranteed to break the engine! Do you have VAG-COM? If not i would suggest you buy this...would be a worthwhile investemnt IMO!

Rich
 
Rich,

I always use Optimax which I assumed was 98 Ron. As far as VAGCOM goes I dont have one. I pressume this is an VAG diagnostic tool used to check the varrious parameters of the car. A few questions on this though:-

Is there a single tool that measures all the engine parameters or do you need different tools to analyse different parameters?

How much it it? How much are they? How do I get one?
 
[ QUOTE ]
welshdragon said:
Rich,

I always use Optimax which I assumed was 98 Ron. As far as VAGCOM goes I dont have one. I pressume this is an VAG diagnostic tool used to check the varrious parameters of the car. A few questions on this though:-

Is there a single tool that measures all the engine parameters or do you need different tools to analyse different parameters?

How much it it? How much are they? How do I get one?

[/ QUOTE ]

mat,

Its capabilities are endless! If the car can measure it, you can read it plus lots more... goto www.vag-com.co.uk

You need a leptop to run it on!

Rich
 
Madkebab,

I was thinking about taking my car to the head office to be honest just its a bit of a drive though. Mind due to the fact that they have a rolling road theres a much better chance of getting something that actually works. Thanx for the offer of meeting up and looking at you car, I am very interested in seeing how they compare. Where do you actually live because I work in Filton in Bristol so hopefully it shouldnt be too hard to arrange a meet.

With my car other than the great flat spot between 50-80 the car fly's. With the K03 and N75J valve running at 1.1 bar boost I hit 140 on a stretch of the M4 just after the severn bridge on my way to work at 6.45 in the morning with no hesitation at the 95 mark felt.
 
Matt

I live in Taunton in Somerset so about 30mins from Filton. If you fancy a meet up let me know by PM and we can sort out a date. I will also be very interested in how you get on at Superchips as once they have sorted out the program for your car then it should be pretty much identical for mine.
 
Welschdragon,

Check all your sensors... when I fitted mine, I was having all kinds of misreads and the boost was going nuts. So I change the knock sensors and the oxygen sensors in my car... car is running a lot better but I still need to remap it. I will do it in a couple of weeks as my scheduale is really overbooked


Cheers,

G
 
Oh and by the way, you might not get any fault codes concerning your knock and oxygen sensors, but still try to change them (they aren't too expensive)


G
 
[ QUOTE ]
Doug_S2 said:
Welshdragon,

The reason your car will have reduced power in the high gears is due to pinging. The ECU will use a differnet map when this happens which will be retarding the ignition a lot, to stop you damaging/melting engine internals. You don't always hear the car pinging - becasue of the good soundproofing - and usually it happening in a high gear/high load so high road/wing noise situation.

I would refrain from driving WOT until you get the car mapped just to be safe. You cannot always trust the knock sensors to pick up pinging early enough - if they have been torqued up wrong - it will change the frequency response of the sensor.

This will not throw a fault code. If you have vag-com try logging the timing blocks and note when you experience the low power the jump in the timing value.

You should be able to tell if you have a MAP sensor on your car - look for one of the vacuum/boost lines going to a black box with an electrical. If you don't have this then the ECU calculates the boost pressure from the MAF signal and other parameters.



[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree... this is what I was trying to say! Knock sensors will send a knock in case of overboost in order for the ECU to reduce power.


G
 
[ QUOTE ]
Doug_S2 said:
Welshdragon,


I would refrain from driving WOT until you get the car mapped just to be safe. You cannot always trust the knock sensors to pick up pinging early enough - if they have been torqued up wrong - it will change the frequency response of the sensor.




[/ QUOTE ]

This is why you should change your knock sensors and oxygen sensors at any cost. Better to be safe than to be sorry!


G
 
Rasta,

Thanx for the comment. I think it sounds as though its worth changing the knock & oxygen sensors. So you got any ideas where they are located on the 1.8T, how differcult they are to change and their cost? If anyone else knows the answers please feel free to chip in.
 
Doug,

My engine code is AJL. As you and Rasta both pointed out it maybe worth changing the knocking & oxygen sensors. So any ideas where exactly are they located? How easy are they to change? What things to look out for? How much do they cost?
 
If you guys in the south west country do meet up... please let me know - would love to see your cars... Im sadly without forced induction... miss my 1.8t/IHI /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
ZeroK66 said:
If you guys in the south west country do meet up... please let me know - would love to see your cars... Im sadly without forced induction... miss my 1.8t/IHI /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How did the 1.8T break then?
 
When I had my car chipped with the K03 it really pulled hard in 4th and 5th when it hit the torque. Now I have a K04 it still pulls well but is not running quite right at present - it will be set up on a rolling road in the next few weeks.

If in any doubt about fuelling I wold definately get the car mapped on the rolling road - only by actually setting it up on the fly will you be getting the most out of what was probably a significant investment.

When I say mine is not running right I am getting 250lbs/ft at 3750 RPM and 213 BHP at 5750 - NOT what I expected....

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
I don't think you have to change your knock sensors - although it is a precaution. It certainly is not going to fix your problem - that is basically mapping. If you had a flat spot before it is probably due to bad mapping.

I know they roughly cost about 25 each for my car.

Changing FPR, injectors and N75 is not the correct way of getting your car running right. You will gain loads more drivability, performance, longetivity, etc, etc from getting a proper remap.

Bosch do make a 5 bar FPR but it is classed as a development one so you can't just go into any bosch distributor and ask for it. Bosch Motorsport FPR: B280 550 113 and specs are here: http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/deutsch/product_overview/Fahrzeugkomponenten/Kraftstoff-Druckregler/Mini_50.pdf

You can also modify a standard one yourself - Big tuners do this.

Guys - I think you need to get a proper remap after you fit these turbos. Simon can report back on how his goes when it gets mapped - if it goes well - some genric chips might be available - although he doesn't like doing them - he prefers to remap to the specific car.

 
Greg,

Can I ask who actually 'chipped' your car? Supperchips or another? Also what K04 have you got? Is it the K04-15?
 
Just to let you know awesome gti do the Neuspeed 5 bar FPR designed for the A4 K04 upgrade. Price is £59+vat and they have them in stock.
 
audi upgrades
[ QUOTE ]
madkebab said:
Just to let you know awesome gti do the Neuspeed 5 bar FPR designed for the A4 K04 upgrade. Price is £59+vat and they have them in stock.

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing to consider is that i dont think the fuel pump even runs at 5 bar...

Rich
 
This seems strange as the K04 kit provided by Awe-Tuning makes no mention of uprating your fuel pump but they do supply you with a 5 bar FPR?
Awe Tuning K04 Kit

They also specify that a free flow exhaust is required for this turbo. Seems to be some conflicting views. Rich have the turbos come into the country yet or are they being delivered direct?
 
Stock pump must run at 5 bar - as stock fpr is 4 bar and inlet manifold pressure can be say 1.2 at full boost (even on K03) so 4 + 1.2 is 5.2! Whether it can flow much fuel at that pressure - who knows.

I'm probably going to try the S2 injectors when I get my custom remap for the K04. I beleive they are 346cc injectors, compared to the OE 270cc ones. This means that I shouldn't need to change the fpr.

The US guys on audiworld seem to suggest changing to a 5bar fpr or 310cc injectors (with OE 4bar fpr) when remapping for the K04. Think this is with GIAC software.
 
[ QUOTE ]
welshdragon said:
Greg,

Can I ask who actually 'chipped' your car? Supperchips or another? Also what K04 have you got? Is it the K04-15?

[/ QUOTE ]

QS Tuning in Heywards Heath. Their service has been excellent - the mapping didn't go smoothly (don't know why - the K03 map was a dream) so at no extra charge they are having their contact at MTM in Germany set the car up on the rolling road when he is next over. I have read elsewhere that getting the setup done on the rolling road can make 10BHP difference at points in the rev range so I am not too disapointed about this development /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

To me the difference between a quality shop (AMD and QST in my direct experience) is what happens when things go wrong.

Don't actually know what type of K04 I have - I will find out.

 
Thanks for the input guys, I'm off to phone Jabba and AMD now; see what they suggest (and what they charge!).

I'll let you know what they say.

Drew.
 
Right lads,

Just spoken to Scott at AMD, he was very helpful, and gave me some info that I'm sure will add extra fuel to this discussion:

He advised me that if fitting a K04.15 he would recommend fitting a sports cat. Milltek apparently do one for 425+VAT. He actually told me a story about a bloke that had his 1.8T 150 A4 fitted with a K04.15 and they did the remap for him. The remap went well, and the car ran spot on. Then out of the blue 10 days later he turned up at AMD with the car on the back of a pick-up truck. What happened was that the extra heat from the turbo actually melted the cells of the cat and f*cked things up royally!

Now this is the first time I've heard of this, and I don't doubt Scott's wisdom in the slightest - he sounded like he really new his stuff - but I'd like to know what you lot think. Is it an absolute necessity to fit a sports cat, or is the standard one up to the job? Anyone else had the same problem when fitting the K04?

All input highly appreciated; not just for my benefit obviously!

Couldn't get through to Jabba by the way, I'll try them in the week. Wouldn't mind hearing what they say on the matter.

Thanks,

Drew.
 
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