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  1. #1
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    S3 clutch slipping !! Advice please...

    Hi guys had my S3 6 months now and i got it remapped soon after getting it,car has done 52k and clutch has started to slip quite regular !!
    My question is do i go for uprated sachs kit @ 600 or given the milage of car assume the clutch was worn anyway and highlighted by remap and just go for oem sachs from audi ????? @ 220.
    Car is 2007 so reading some of the threads on here im guessing its a LUK unit in at the moment so id guess the oem sachs would be better???
    Your thoughts and opinions would be appreciated thanks !

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  3. #2
    Boydie's Avatar
    Boycie

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    Go to audi and see if they will replace it under warrenty

    Similar thing happening with my friend but his is not remapped

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    Thanks ill give it a go....dont fancy my chances though !!

  5. #4
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    I had my Flywheel and Clutch replaced @ over 40k miles. I too have a S3 on an 07.

    Shouldn't be an issue, it could after all be the failure of the flywheel that is causing the clutch to slip.

    What do you have to lose?

    Olly

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    Thanks Olly ill give it a go ive called them twice this morn and still waiting for a call back they are useless in Carlisle !!!

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    Just make sure you go out with the technician and get him to replicate the problem. Audii had mine for 10 days before they got sign off for the repair.

    I'm not remapped though. Does your's do it when the map isn't on the car? That is going to be the sticking point unless you have a very dumb dealer - entirely possible though

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    Thats what i thought.....my map is not switchable so i cant tell.
    Ive had major issues with my local audi already with girlfriends A3,id rather travel 60miles to another than take mine to them !!!
    Im still waiting for a callback they obviously remember my name lol

  9. #8
    edition's Avatar
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    How much is a clutch and flywheel change on one? Parts and labour?

  10. #9
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    Personaly I would take them out with the map in place. Remember, these guys dont drive S3s all day every day so it wont be that obvious to them that its remapped. (Ive done it before with VW in a MK5 Golf Gti)

    Anyway, they wont care, why should they?
    The Techs have no incentives to push back on warranty, neither does the dealer for that matter.

    FWIW, there are guys running Stage 2+ with the later OEM SACHS unit without any problems at all.

    Oddly mine started to slip after 18K miles (mapped with REVO after 10K), did it a couple of times and has stopped.
    It was more evident when the car was cool (had just reached temp) and only in high gears.

    Good luck

    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
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    etc....

  11. #10
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edition View Post
    How much is a clutch and flywheel change on one? Parts and labour?
    Aftermarket SACHS DMF and clutch is about 1800 iirc.
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  12. #11
    edition's Avatar
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    Fitted Paul....

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    Just been to see a mate of mine he runs a local garage he can get the Oem sachs pretty cheap from Audi so im gonna go that route as im only running Stg 1.
    And he's gonna fit it with my help on the cheap so result really !!
    I cant stand my local Audi dealer
    Cheers guys for the advice !!

  14. #13
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edition View Post
    Fitted Paul....
    Yes mate, Iggu has this combo on his.
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  15. #14
    gaz m's Avatar
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    could you let me know how you get on with this clutch change and cost as my S3 is running Revo 2+ and often my clutch slips on hard acceleration in all gears until I put it in 5th then it hooks up and starts to fly I am in Carlisle too.

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    Will do mate although it wont be till late Jan,ive got better things like skiing to spend money on at mo !!
    My clutch has just started to slip (under hard acceleration) so will be ok for now.
    Audi quoted 225 for clutch (lake district audi,not local) i aint got the time of day for local dealer !!
    If your running 2+ maybe the race clutch be better ?? i dont know!

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaz m View Post
    could you let me know how you get on with this clutch change and cost as my S3 is running Revo 2+ and often my clutch slips on hard acceleration in all gears until I put it in 5th then it hooks up and starts to fly I am in Carlisle too.
    I wouldn't stick a new OEM clutch on a car with Stage 2+ - what if you have to replace it again in a year ? A big part of the job is labour. I think mine (all in, fitted with uprated clutch and new DMF) was about 1,500 at AmD. My thread is on here somewhere with all the details.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  18. #17
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    A mate is getting his clutch and flywheel replaced by audi this week - it will cost 1800 but fortunately, his is under warrenty but thats the same price as an uprate clutch and flywheel from sachs!

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    Showing my ignorance here guys, is there a less harsh clutch to fit a car with stage 2+? I know the ones most of the guys have on here can't really be 'slipped', like when you're in traffic Etc. My Mrs drives the car and she won't get on with a racing type clutch, she struggles to park as it is?

  20. #19
    Boydie's Avatar
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    Dont let her drive it :P

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    I wouldn't stick a new OEM clutch on a car with Stage 2+ - what if you have to replace it again in a year ? A big part of the job is labour. I think mine (all in, fitted with uprated clutch and new DMF) was about 1,500 at AmD. My thread is on here somewhere with all the details.
    Hi Iggu...totally agree.

    The extra torque even with Stage 2 will overwhelm the stock clutch,and I managed to make mine last to about 10 000 miles before it crumbled.

    Mine was also from AMD,so about the same price,and it copes just fine with about 370lbs of torque,but as has been noted already,this clutch doesn't take to well to being slipped,although it is by no means as bad as some GpN and race clutches I've used on other cars.

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    I just got my Sachs racing clutch and single mass flywheel installed two days ago...

    Its a 4 blade clutch thingy and doesn't like to slip at all....

    Annoying to drive around town and I guess I'm gonna figure it out without having to concentrate in a little while...

    But... The clamping power is phenomenal, something else. No exaggeration feels indestructible.. This is very dangerous potentially because a few mistakes and the differentials, haldex, transmission can blow up, strip, etc. No fooling around like before...

    Its serious driving only now and slowly around the city roads. It just accelerates too fast with the single mass flywheel which makes it hard to adjust to pressing the pedal down. Can't do it anymore there's always something else on the road further down, on an empty road its still a rush for me the car has become insanely quick. But that dual mass flywheel mustve been really heavy.

    Ok relax you might say but forgive me its still new on the car and the difference is major... Might even say scared me to the point of responsibility... Maybe thats why they say faster cars are safer. No problems upshifting or anything.

  23. #22
    gaz m's Avatar
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    So what you guys are saying I need a race clutch for revo 2+ and ban the wife from driving the car as the clutch dosent slip in slow trafic?

    I am in trouble here me thinks

  24. #23
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    Here's some pictures of the uprated sachs clutch, i bought one hoping audi would fit it while they were changing my gearbox but they wouldnt do it so its sitting in my room till i go stage 2+ :





    Cheers Davie

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaz m View Post
    So what you guys are saying I need a race clutch for revo 2+ and ban the wife from driving the car as the clutch dosent slip in slow trafic?

    I am in trouble here me thinks
    You don't NEED a race clutch,as the uprated Sachs will cope very nicely.

    Paddle clutches are not for the unwary or uninitiated,as if you try to slip the clutch,you'll quickly find you can't.
    It's either in or out,and this makes town or traffic driving a real pain,and you will also wear the thing out rapidly if you persist in trying to slip it.

    Organic clutches such as the Sachs are usually fine,and can be built to cope with surprising amounts of torque,as I was running one on an ex GpN Escort Cosworth for a few years with no problems.

  26. #25
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    Is the organic Sachs clutch as easy to use, as the Audi OEM one?

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardcore Hallam View Post
    Is the organic Sachs clutch as easy to use, as the Audi OEM one?
    It's a bit heavier,reflecting the higher clamping pressure,and it does smell a bit if you slip it,but nothing you wouldn't expect.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3GG View Post
    I just got my Sachs racing clutch and single mass flywheel installed two days ago...
    Its a 4 blade clutch thingy and doesn't like to slip at all....
    Annoying to drive around town and I guess I'm gonna figure it out without having to concentrate in a little while...
    But... The clamping power is phenomenal, something else. No exaggeration feels indestructible.. This is very dangerous potentially because a few mistakes and the differentials, haldex, transmission can blow up, strip, etc. No fooling around like before...
    Its serious driving only now and slowly around the city roads. It just accelerates too fast with the single mass flywheel which makes it hard to adjust to pressing the pedal down. Can't do it anymore there's always something else on the road further down, on an empty road its still a rush for me the car has become insanely quick. But that dual mass flywheel mustve been really heavy.
    Ok relax you might say but forgive me its still new on the car and the difference is major... Might even say scared me to the point of responsibility... Maybe thats why they say faster cars are safer. No problems upshifting or anything.
    Can't for the life of me think why you would go for a single mass flywheel after you would have read about the numerous issues people on here have had with them. I've had my Sachs clutch and dual mass flywheel combo for nearly a year now (13,000 miles) and it isn't at all annoying or difficult to drive round town. Almost all the Stage2+ fellas have dual mass flywheels.
    Given what you say above I'd pay a few hundred quid extra and go for the dual mass. You'll benefit in every way.
    Last edited by Iggu; 29th November 2009 at 15:03.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Can't for the life of me think why you would go for a single mass flywheel after you would have read about the numerous issues people on here have had with them. I've had my Sachs clutch and dual mass flywheel combo for nearly a year now (13,000 miles) and it isn't at all annoying or difficult to drive round town. Almost all the Stage2+ fellas have dual mass flywheels.
    Given what you say above I'd pay a few hundred quid extra and go for the dual mass. You'll benefit in every way.
    Much though I hate the idea of DMF's and their associated reliability issues,I have to agree.

    The problems in moving to a single mass system,with an engine designed with a DMF in mind are clear.....increased vibration,clutch bite and gear engagement issues at times.

    SMF's work very well with fully balanced engine internals,and can result in sharpened throttle response if lightened and balanced themselves,but this engine isn't designed with that in mind.

  30. #29
    paddy's Avatar
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    I dont go with this remap clutch slip business. You increase the top end bhp by 15-20% and the clutch gives out ?? bear in mind that most gear changes will be way off peak power anyway.

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    I dont go with this remap clutch slip business. You increase the top end bhp by 15-20% and the clutch gives out ?? bear in mind that most gear changes will be way off peak power anyway.
    It has nothing to with top end power (or bhp). It is the phenomenal increases in torque which these Stage 2+ remaps give you. We're all getting around 360 lb/ft - which is near to a 50% increase over the standard 258 lb/ft.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    I dont go with this remap clutch slip business. You increase the top end bhp by 15-20% and the clutch gives out ?? bear in mind that most gear changes will be way off peak power anyway.
    Its the torque that kills the stock DMFs/clutches, not so much the bhp.

    Ive had issues with my last 2 remapped cars and the slippage can manifest itself at quite low revs, in particular in the higher gears as the turbo spools up and boost builds. In fact this is where the slippage mainly occurs.
    DMF/clutch issues have been widely reported for years (from MK4 Golf) on remapped cars and to a smaller degree, stock cars.

    Seems that DMFs/clutches arent VAGs strong point.

    Cheers
    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  33. #32
    paddy's Avatar
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    Cheers Paul.
    I sometimes think that Audi dont allow a lot of a safety margin in their builds.....Expecially now i see 3.2s destroying cam chains at 50-60k.

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    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    I dont go with this remap clutch slip business. You increase the top end bhp by 15-20% and the clutch gives out ?? bear in mind that most gear changes will be way off peak power anyway.
    As has been said already,it's torque and not BHP that kills the clutch.

    The clamping pressure,surface area,and friction coefficient of the clutch are all factors,and when the torque exceeds the pressure per unit area that the clutch is able to exert,it will slip.

    When my stock clutch began to slip,it was at peak torque(i.e. about 3500 rpm) and not maximum bhp.

  35. #34
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    Where is the best place to change a clutch to an uprated one in East London? And what is the difference in price?

    I think I experienced a clutch slipping last night - in the 5th gear when the turbo s tarts kicking in at 2000rpm, the revs would go slightly (300rmp) up and the car would not accerate straight away.
    VCDS USER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Can't for the life of me think why you would go for a single mass flywheel after you would have read about the numerous issues people on here have had with them. I've had my Sachs clutch and dual mass flywheel combo for nearly a year now (13,000 miles) and it isn't at all annoying or difficult to drive round town. Almost all the Stage2+ fellas have dual mass flywheels.
    Given what you say above I'd pay a few hundred quid extra and go for the dual mass. You'll benefit in every way.
    I really understand your post Iggu and I told the guy at the speedshop I want dmf and organic, this racing thing came in and I talked to a guy that had it on a Leon he said the acceleration was electric and not much noise no slipping though etc.

    Today is the first day I have gotten by without much fuss its taken me 700 km to adjust 80 percent around town... I'll improve in a bit more and the clutch will soften up in a bit as well.

    I'm going to go for the full powerflex kit engine mounts transmission mounts etc.

    Because on a little race I had fourth didn't go in this weekend and I realized it was torque load from the engine transmission due to the softer engine and tranny mounts. Hopefully that'll cure it. Thats it.

    Now if it happens to me again after all that I'm going to be on here saying help!!! And youre gonna say I told you sooo! He he! But if the poo hits the fan Im gonna put my practically new condition dmf on and thats that, not at audi cause its gonna cost too much. But hopefully I wont have to do that.

    I wonder though is it potentially detrimental for the engine to run single mass? I'm as carefull as can be but when the revs get High I wonder...

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    Oh! If you don't get the transfer just right it feels like a hopping thing goes on because the revs needed to take off in general are higher. Due to the lack of inertia from the single mass flywheel and the lack of bite forgiveness from the clutch itself.

    Hope I havent messed anything up in this learning phase

  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3GG View Post
    Oh! If you don't get the transfer just right it feels like a hopping thing goes on because the revs needed to take off in general are higher. Due to the lack of inertia from the single mass flywheel and the lack of bite forgiveness from the clutch itself.

    Hope I havent messed anything up in this learning phase
    Welcome to the world of low mass flywheels and racing clutches.

    It does take a bit of time to get used to having little or no capacity to slip,and using the clutch almost like a switch.

    These things are a pain around town,and honestly best suited to the open road or tracks,whereas a good Group N fibre clutch will handle a lot of torque but can be a good bit easier to use.

  39. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3GG View Post
    Today is the first day I have gotten by without much fuss its taken me 700 km to adjust 80 percent around town... I'll improve in a bit more and the clutch will soften up in a bit as well..... But if the poo hits the fan Im gonna put my practically new condition dmf on and thats that...
    You might find that you get used to it and it becomes second nature to drive. Wish you all the best mate . And as you say you always have the option to revert back to DMF at any point. My car is the family vehicle (kids etc.) and personally I couldn't live with either the Single Mass Flywheel or uprated engine / transmission mounts - just too harsh for me (maybe I'm just a bit of a puff).

    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    These things are a pain around town,and honestly best suited to the open road or tracks.
    Hi Alex - the pedal is definitely stiffer and not suited for a weedy left leg but that's the only problem I've noticed. I've never had any funny smells like you have referred to and don't really find it all that switch-like or a pain in traffic/town. Mine will slip if provoked on a hill start for example (I try not to do this obviously) and it doesn't seem to mind at all - no noises or smells etc.. Maybe each one is slightly different - dunno. You got any more plans for yours mate ?
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Hi Alex - the pedal is definitely stiffer and not suited for a weedy left leg but that's the only problem I've noticed. I've never had any funny smells like you have referred to and don't really find it all that switch-like or a pain in traffic/town. Mine will slip if provoked on a hill start for example (I try not to do this obviously) and it doesn't seem to mind at all - no noises or smells etc.. Maybe each one is slightly different - dunno. You got any more plans for yours mate ?
    Sorry Iggu!....I was referring to lightened flywheels and paddle clutches!

    The only things I've noticed with the Sachs are a heavier pedal,and a few smells(!) if it's being slipped a good bit,although other than that it's just fine.

    Plans for mine....a trip to AMD tomorrow for the KWv3 kit and H&R anti-roll bars.

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    Gotta let us know how the V3's transform the car Alex plus the roll bars, its a mod I wanna do after the engine stuff. Ive got Koni's on there not really satisfied but the suspension did get better after the mechanics sprayed all my suspension's pivoting points with Wurth spray. Started working better. I've got the car since early 2007 and some binding was occurring evidently because the difference was noticeable. Thats why I'm going to go full powerflex in a bit. That should do the trick. These items have gotten weathered fo' sho'.


    Iggu: it seems its not a question of being a performance minded kinda thing with the mounts it seems that there's chain of things that one mod brings on another. hee hee! Waiting for the forge dv, cai(w/water repellent sock), intercooler(gets hot over here), short shift l/r f/b, its all been delayed till the 16th of Dec. The forge cai's are in shortage, must be selling like hotcakes. It'll be a christmas present...ordered the stuff since late October.
    Last edited by S3GG; 1st December 2009 at 16:47.

 

 

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