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  1. #1
    10blazin's Avatar
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    apr awesome trial

    Went to awesome gti yesterday I'm impressed with the place they have alot of stuff ...

    I went for the trial map they do and was surprised alot my car doesn't half shift , and its convinced me to get a map...

    My car i thought was kinda fast just wanted more torque through the midrange the map has given me that , it just pulls through every gear where as normal it would strugle midrange i think its cos of qauttro and the crappy oe feul pump am i right ??

    In a few months IL have 1600 quid to spend on mods and Ive seen other places that do the same in bhp and torque remaps for 250 quid why should i get apr for 575 from awesome or revo whats the difference ???

    Also if you had 1600 quid for get faster mods what would you spend it on ....

    I was thinking to get a turboback exaust from the place nathen N8KOW got his from its a great price 599 i think , how is it nathen any good ?? then get a forge cia i think its called and stage 2 remap is this possible with 1600 quid ...

    I appreciate the help guys and any fresh advice or help you can give i know there's lots of threads on this stuff but not for the money i have to do the lot , hence why im asking for advice ..

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    NHN
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    Personally 500+ on map is expensive, you need to compare the figures they offer from each tuner, but even this can be taken with pinch of salt sometimes without real proof, a decent 4wd RR is a good test of this as this can show you with a 90-95% idea of the power generated before & after the map as RR's can be little of sometimes, but for me I wouldnt be paying 500+ on a stage 1/generic map.

    I would go & gauge what tuners can do to your car with 1600, simple, but tbh I reckon you'd be happy just with the map & then spend the other 1k on something else to make you smile.

    In all the fairly nice cars I've had for the last 10 years I've not yet added a different exhaust & only spent limited money on the suspension on the A3 which I have to say was 500 odd well spent, with the map its enough for now, I like to mess with the technology on the car as thats my field really but for Joe Bloggs I'd suggest just the map 1st & then you might think this is good enough for me thus saving yourself 1k, tbh unless you're seriously tuning the car the exhaust gains are very minimal to warrant the cost IMHO.

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    Echoing as above really, you need to be realistic with yourself as to what you want to achieve from the short or long term plan for modifications. Also, before you go ahead with modding think HOW LONG DO I WANT TO KEEP THE CAR. Spending a fortune in the year before you sell it is an awful economy unless money is no object. Yes you can not expect to make money on mods, but get your moneys worth and dont just piss your cash away.

    I wouldn't necessary say I've got 1600, so what can I have, as it will all get spent if you set that budget (tuning houses are in business to make money, so when a budget is set they'll happily spend it for you!).

    A remap makes the most gain for the most reasonable return (around 10bhp per 100 spent). I tend to think in these terms before I outlay on a mod (for instance I wouldn't pay 800 odd quid for the APR fuel pump; whilst a lovely product it's benefit over a KMD or Autotech is very limited considering its over double the price).

    However, remaps is a different story. Good remaps take hours and hours of testing, revision, and ongoing customer service. I would never skimp here knowingly as I want the best support, the best knowledge, and the comfort that if I need support or someone to listen to my feedback that there is an open door. I've had Revo on 5 cars, I know the guys very well, and they are incredibly passionate about what they do. It's a UK company, and they work with race teams so have plenty of race experience. My 30k asset deserves the very best in this space as the code is critical to bring together the maximum from all the components you run. As you all know I run stage 2 without DP. Revo have tweaked my map to take care of this, and tested it. I couldn't trust that task to a back street garage hack with a laptop and a lead even if it saved me 200-300. In this financial climate will they even be there to support you in 18 months? Also with Revo, you can play with the SPS to set your own parameters. I want that flexibility. Other tuners such as APR offer similar, and in the same sentence I'd recommend Custom Code, or GIAC. Yes, you can spend less, but be aware you could be getting less of a product.

    An air filter / intake will always give you better throttle response and breathing capability for not too much money. It's one other area I'd consider if you want a bit more urgency.

    Suspension is another area where you can spend some money and see significant improvement. These days everyone has the coilover bug, but to me unless you have your car corner weighted for track use I REALLY wouldn't bother. I've written a huge thread on this HERE and more people are now consider other options before flinging badly set up, overly complex coilovers on their daily drivers. When it's worn out then replace it, and get some decent spring/damper combo.

    Exhaust / fuel pump: I really wouldn't bother here unless you are after maxxing out your performance. They are hugely expensive and the gains are marginal. Over the years I've blown so much money on expensive pipework and I've NEVER thought WOW what an amazing performance difference. Yes they sound better, but unless you are going to increase bore, bypass cats and put straight through pipes the benefit you will see is marginal. An exhaust / manifold may give you 15bhp and similar torques for 1000. That is about 1.5bhp per 100. Remember the remap was 10bhp per 100 (almost 6 times more return per spend). If your exhaust is one the way out, then get a nice cat back IF you want to keep the car for any length of time.
    The fuel pump is only valid if you go to a stage 2 map, and if you plan to go this route, choose a map than can deliver with the fuel pump (for instance Bluefin maps only cover stage 1 I think, so you wouldn't choose this if you wanted to go with a pump in the long term). Remember the A3 2.0T 200PS will have a smaller intercooler, a weaker block / rods / internals, and therefore you may not want to strain it too hard. If you push the mods too far without taking care of intercoolers / pumps they may start to work against themselves as intake temps skyrocket and this will limit the performance you have paid for.

    I always believe in finding a good independent tuner. Get recommendations from forum members or local people and build a relationship so that they can advise you if you decide to extend the path of your modding. It can be a very expensive and addictive game, so think hard about it before dipping any more than your toe in the water!!!
    Last edited by warren_S5; 5th July 2009 at 07:56.
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  5. #4
    N8
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    Blazin I paid 485 for my exhaust, happy with the gains, feels ALOT more responsive now and sounds great too. I'm going for a p-torque custom map, to make the most of the exhaust along with a DSG map. I'm sure a 2.0T with a turboback and a custom map would shift quite nicely, good luck blazin....

    ....oh yeah and for the record its NATHAN

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  6. #5
    10blazin's Avatar
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    lol sorry mate i keep doing that dont i NATHAN ....

    i think im gona just get a remap cos i want an oetinnger grill and osir skirts so i may just go for these 3 im sure there will be smiles with that choice and get the rest in future ...... thanks for the help guys

  7. #6
    N8
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    No probs blazin, I think P-Torques phase 1 is 295. Glad your spelling it right. Good lad.

  8. #7
    10blazin's Avatar
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    i was looking at this place he said he will come to my house map it for 250 what do you think nathan

    http://www.more-bhp.com/a3/audi-a3-2...200-remap.html

  9. #8
    N8
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    I would go with p-torque man, saving money doesn't always work out best, believe me from my experience.

  10. #9
    10blazin's Avatar
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    wheres can i get p torque from in manchester

  11. #10
    N8
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    I know your in manchester, p-torque is based in wolverhampton.

  12. #11
    Neil201's Avatar
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    Excellent post there WarrenCox, you just answered alot of questions i was mulling over

  13. #12
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    10blazin - I was also looking at more-bhp for a remap due to the low price and being relatively close for a visit.

    After researching around about them I have read many good reviews on other forums so can't be all the bad.

    Let me know who you choose and how you get on...


    Cheers
    Neil.

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    10blazin's Avatar
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    i think il go for more bhp he said he will come to me and its a good price to .... il let you know how i go on when done

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    N8
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    Your a good egg blazin, a good egg.

  16. #15
    10blazin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N8KOW View Post
    Your a good egg blazin, a good egg.

    explain my young scurrabuck ...???

    i want my skirts grill and map ...wew hew

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    i think il go for more bhp he said he will come to me and its a good price to .... il let you know how i go on when done
    does the work come with a guarantee that the engine wont mess up? if not check out these guys www.fr-rtuning.com in west yorkshire. did my 2.0tdi more than 18months ago, still running perfect


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  18. #17
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    The guys at Awesome are awesome ! lol

    Our LCR had a bluefin exhaust, air filter and a few other twees with the stage 2 apr map, it was fast!!

    They do look after you and when it went wrong, they looked after us, gave aus a courtsey and made it right. It took 10hs+ laboyr to find the fault but they only chaged an hour labour + the part price (lamba sensor i think it was)

    I would reccomend them but their prices are a bit steep but you do get it back in service.

    Overall, Id get an exhaust from Blueflame exhausts (google them), wouldnt bother with CAI, just drop in green or K&N will be fine and custom map it...(you could change the fuel filter but that would cost 600ish and not sure how much extra bhp you'd get).

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    10blazin's Avatar
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    cheers kaz its just 585 for a stage one map is ridiculous when you can get one for 250 the figures quoted from both companies are the same how can 585 justify its self al right you may get a garrentee but diesels are mostly known for problems with remaps because of the torque , petrols are usually ok so i think these companys play it out saying the map adapts and you get a garentee but it doesnt mean sqaut tbh because its probably 95 percent nothing will happen to the car whilst under its garrentee from the mapping place so i may just go more bhp company for 250 i bet its fine ive heard quite a few peeps goin other remap companys for around 250 and the cars fine i think paying an extra 3 to 400 quid is a joke when its mostly hipe and fear these companys play on when a 250 map produces the same ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    cheers kaz its just 585 for a stage one map is ridiculous when you can get one for 250 the figures quoted from both companies are the same how can 585 justify its self al right you may get a garrentee but diesels are mostly known for problems with remaps because of the torque , petrols are usually ok so i think these companys play it out saying the map adapts and you get a garentee but it doesnt mean sqaut tbh because its probably 95 percent nothing will happen to the car whilst under its garrentee from the mapping place so i may just go more bhp company for 250 i bet its fine ive heard quite a few peeps goin other remap companys for around 250 and the cars fine i think paying an extra 3 to 400 quid is a joke when its mostly hipe and fear these companys play on when a 250 map produces the same ....
    I agree to an extent. However some cheap maps are bought in cheaply, from companies who just make generic changes to certain parameters without really understanding the engine, or the effects of what the changes will do.

    Companies like Revo, APR, AMD, etc. spend a lot more time on development to make sure everything is right. This often results in a much smoother power delivery, and also reliability. Not saying you need to spend nearly 600, but be careful with any ebay-special type "tuners".
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    cheers kaz its just 585 for a stage one map is ridiculous when you can get one for 250 the figures quoted from both companies are the same how can 585 justify its self al right you may get a garrentee but diesels are mostly known for problems with remaps because of the torque , petrols are usually ok so i think these companys play it out saying the map adapts and you get a garentee but it doesnt mean sqaut tbh because its probably 95 percent nothing will happen to the car whilst under its garrentee from the mapping place so i may just go more bhp company for 250 i bet its fine ive heard quite a few peeps goin other remap companys for around 250 and the cars fine i think paying an extra 3 to 400 quid is a joke when its mostly hipe and fear these companys play on when a 250 map produces the same ....
    But Awesome are reputableand tehy will look after you...

    Look a my car - 300 remap and the turbo went within 2 months and that was 600+ to get it sorted. Not 100% if it was because of the remap but not sure... I just drive it standard now.

    Contact Prosport in Stockport too - not used them but they seem to do top work.

    But for your car - Id defo go APR/Revo or GIAC..

    Panelcare in Rochdale do Custom Code remaps but not sure on prices or how good the map is..
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  22. #21
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    i think il go for more bhp he said he will come to me and its a good price to .... il let you know how i go on when done
    Cheers, I'll look forward to hearing of your experience

    I agree to an extent. However some cheap maps are bought in cheaply, from companies who just make generic changes to certain parameters without really understanding the engine, or the effects of what the changes will do.

    Companies like Revo, APR, AMD, etc. spend a lot more time on development to make sure everything is right. This often results in a much smoother power delivery, and also reliability. Not saying you need to spend nearly 600, but be careful with any ebay-special type "tuners".
    I'm a noob at this so correct me if I'm wrong, but even though I understand what you are saying it still looks to me that the likes of Revo, APR, AMD etc. are charging excessive amounts for what seems to be nothing more than uploading the same software over and over.

    What I mean is that once the development of a particular map for a specific make/model/engine has been done, tried and tested and around for a while, surely this is never going to change. Except of course where specific mods and custom requirements come into it!
    However I would assume that the avarage joe blogs customer has a standard setup and therefore gets the default standard map off the shelf so to speak

    Like I said I'm new to the idea of remaps and can't get my head around justifying the 500 big name map when I can spend half that on the same/similar from the likes of more-bhp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil201 View Post
    Cheers, I'll look forward to hearing of your experience



    I'm a noob at this so correct me if I'm wrong, but even though I understand what you are saying it still looks to me that the likes of Revo, APR, AMD etc. are charging excessive amounts for what seems to be nothing more than uploading the same software over and over.

    What I mean is that once the development of a particular map for a specific make/model/engine has been done, tried and tested and around for a while, surely this is never going to change. Except of course where specific mods and custom requirements come into it!
    However I would assume that the avarage joe blogs customer has a standard setup and therefore gets the default standard map off the shelf so to speak

    Like I said I'm new to the idea of remaps and can't get my head around justifying the 500 big name map when I can spend half that on the same/similar from the likes of more-bhp.
    The best analogy I can think of is with any other software - it's the development time you're paying for. Once the development is finished, it doesn't cost anything per map (obviously the dealer has to pay the likes of Revo, etc. per map as they're selling a "product"). Exactly the same as Microsoft charging for software - once the product is finished, the major cost is out the way, but they need to recoup the costs including development.

    A cheap map is often cheaply developed - with very little time spent on it.

    I haven't skimped on any products I've put on my car, and wouldn't skimp on a remap, but a lot of people buy cheap exhausts, cheap wheels, and a cheap remap is no different. I think as it can't be seen in the same way as a lot of products, many people assume they're all much the same.
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  24. #23
    Neil201's Avatar
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    OK I understand the need to recoup the cost of development, but in most industries the price is higher in the early stages and then as sales increase etc. the price drops (although I totally agree with your anology of M$ who always manage to charge top $). And surely it must get easier/cheaper to develop these maps over the years even though I understand of course there are many differences between each new engine/make/model.

    I think as it can't be seen in the same way as a lot of products, many people assume they're all much the same.
    But what I think it boils down to is exaclty what you said, assuming they are all pretty much the same. Maybe I am underestimating the amount of development these things take.

    I suppose it's like a lot of things in 'you get what u pay for' after all why do we choose to drive Audis

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil201 View Post
    And surely it must get easier/cheaper to develop these maps over the years even though I understand of course there are many differences between each new engine/make/model.
    It doesn't get any easier. When DSG was launched the tuners had their work cut out trying to map cars with gearboxes which were working to the old ECU settings. They had to develop code to enable the DSG system to respond in line with the codes they were writing.

    When the new TSi engines are launched there will be so many engine variants in the VAG range, all requiring new code that the tuners will be flat out trying to resolve new maps for them.

    Yes the basic core concepts become the simple bit, but the additional changes bought about by new technologies mean the coding has to evolve into a much bigger beast every time a car has more ECU based governing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil201 View Post
    Maybe I am underestimating the amount of development these things take.
    Easily done when it is not your field of expertise. I though the same until I spent a day with a tuning house.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil201 View Post
    I suppose it's like a lot of things in 'you get what u pay for' after all why do we choose to drive Audis
    In most cases yes, but with respect to the MTM S3(8P) map I'd draw the line.
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    OK I'm starting to see the error of my ways

    I'm thinking now to take the wise option and look at Revo etc... especially as I have DSG and I wouldn't want to take a chance and muck that up!

    Oh and appologies to 10Blazin for hijacking his thread


    Cheers
    Neil

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    no probs neil its all about maps and is good to here....

    they do have a point , if i had dsg then i wouldnt be to sure either but since i have a manual and havent found one bad word said about more bhp then im thinking about it

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    Blazin,

    Well from a pure initial cost related view-

    I think custom code maybe a viable option... I'm glad you started this thread as I wondered pretty much the same thing about other tuning companies prices compared to that of REVO, APR etc, and just why the well known houses were able to charge double in most cases. I think for the money and reputation Custom Code seem to be good.

    They are often mentioned alongside the likes of REVO, GIAC et al and seem to have a happy customer base. I am not sure what there after sales are like though... Didn't get that far... Also superchips is should be noted are the official race partner for VW, you can grab a handset second hand from ebay for like 50 absolute max then have it reprogrammed and sent back to you for circa 350 all in, you have the means to remove the map at will and have a error analysis tool in the bluefin handset too... Superchips also has a good reputation for after sales.

    Myself I think I will be going for custom code or superchips blueifn, these 2 are well priced, you will save 200 - 150 over REVO, GIAC etc.

    With regard to R&D... Do the big companies offer updates for maps they have uploaded to your car for free or is this something you would have to pay for?

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    10blazin's Avatar
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    my warrenty runs out in december so im not bothered about changing it to stock but i like the revo switch to switch to economy stock race etc ....

  30. #29
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    Yeah I like that idea too but I don't like the price lol! That's what interested me about the ST3 from chipped UK until I started hearing about possible turbo related issue with it.

    You going for the more BHP then or maybe REVO?

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    i have a budget so im not really sure , if i was to go revo id want the switch so it will be daft money so im just gona go for more bhp i think....its 250 delivered gona get a new black surround and numberplate surround for my grill a detailing kit the meguires 220 because im starting to like detailing it becoming my ocd ....lol

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~RS~ View Post
    Blazin,

    They are often mentioned alongside the likes of REVO, GIAC et al and seem to have a happy customer base. I am not sure what there after sales are like though... Didn't get that far... Also superchips is should be noted are the official race partner for VW, you can grab a handset second hand from ebay for like 50 absolute max then have it reprogrammed and sent back to you for circa 350 all in, you have the means to remove the map at will and have a error analysis tool in the bluefin handset too... Superchips also has a good reputation for after sales.

    Myself I think I will be going for custom code or superchips blueifn, these 2 are well priced, you will save 200 - 150 over REVO, GIAC etc.

    With regard to R&D... Do the big companies offer updates for maps they have uploaded to your car for free or is this something you would have to pay for?

    If you do a search on username 'Iggu' (8P S3) you'll find he initially had the bluefin map and changed onto revo. I've seen torque/bhp graphs comparing the performance from both products on his car - revo product was far superior!
    IIRC 'Iggu' had high praise for Superchips and their after sales service (think he'd used them on previous vehicles) BUT since having the revo map installed, he wouldnt dream of going back to the Bluefin unit (superchips)
    Same old cliche 'you get what you pay for'

  33. #32
    ~RS~'s Avatar
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    Tell me about it! I am looking at the werkstatt acrylic kit along with some Blackfire midnight sun ivory carnauba wax when I can afford it.

  34. #33
    Young un's Avatar
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    So you caught the detailing bug...Im still trying to resist it!
    I started with a simple rinse, sponge and rinse but now im claying, polishing, waxing....not got the guts to start drying the car with a leaf blower though!

  35. #34
    10blazin's Avatar
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    no sack the leaf blower lol i find a soft towel does the job im getting the meguire kit from polished bliss soon gone polish my car to death sort the few chips out on the car and scratches get it show class then Blackfire midnight sun ivory carnauba wax ....

  36. #35
    ~RS~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yung Fook View Post
    If you do a search on username 'Iggu' (8P S3) you'll find he initially had the bluefin map and changed onto revo. I've seen torque/bhp graphs comparing the performance from both products on his car - revo product was far superior!
    IIRC 'Iggu' had high praise for Superchips and their after sales service (think he'd used them on previous vehicles) BUT since having the revo map installed, he wouldnt dream of going back to the Bluefin unit (superchips)
    Same old cliche 'you get what you pay for'
    It's the same old problem mate, one person says this another says that...
    I have heard that the REVO is aggresive and the bluefin progressive. I have a TDi it's not a quattro so I'm not sure the REVO map would suit my car as it rains three quarters of the time over here anyway. Essentially I just want the car to be a bit more eager and responsive across all revs.

    Maybe what I read about REVO's TDi map being agressive is ********, and maybe it will not screw over my clutch, but it still 170 more than a very close competitors - custom code, how does this compare to the REVO map for performance? (if you are aware). Thanks for the heads up on the bluefin. I will look for that post

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    ive just read a skoda forum and the revo mashed his turbo to bearings shot up so im going with more bhp because it seems any of these maps can mash your car up....

  38. #37
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    Another recommendation:

    ANY remap will put more strain on the components of your vehicle.

    There are a few things you can do to limit the long term damage, but it is likely that any weak links will still be exploited faster due to higher temps / boost pressures etc..

    1) Always service your car regularly, and if anything have more oil changes than specified by the dealers

    2) Always exercise a rigorous warm up and cool down procedure. NEVER rev the car hard before your oil temp reaches 90 degress (about 10 minutes). The oil will not have thinned and circulated properly when cold (to the turbo / head). Cool down is as important as warm up. Try not to rag the sh1t out of the car before you park up. Try to run the last 2-3 mins at a moderate engine speed as this will allow the turbo to cool whilst the oil continues to circulate.

    3) Don't over rev beyond the red line if you can help it.
    Audi S5 3.0V6T Coupe Black Edition

  39. #38
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    My observation on maps is to get it done at one of the car shows. IIRC* Custom Code (or was it REVO) were doing a 20% discount at GTI - obviously travelling there/entry would have to be factored in, but still much cheaper.

    I do remember for sure that REVO were throwing in the Select switch for silly money.

    *Please someone clarify if they can remember the exact discounts/offers, my memory is pap.

  40. #39
    10blazin's Avatar
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    why not rag the shyte out of the car before you stop how does that help warren.....

    i know parts expand when hot and vica verca and i remember this guy who had a lancia delta intergrale years ago and he always started his car up and left it runnig for 10 minutes before he got off ...i always wodered why but why not rag it before stopping because the temps to high and risk cooling to quick or something damaging parts ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuldReekie View Post
    My observation on maps is to get it done at one of the car shows. IIRC* Custom Code (or was it REVO) were doing a 20% discount at GTI - obviously travelling there/entry would have to be factored in, but still much cheaper.

    I do remember for sure that REVO were throwing in the Select switch for silly money.

    *Please someone clarify if they can remember the exact discounts/offers, my memory is pap.
    car shows it is then i always miss out....

 

 
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