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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGBArgee
    I read on this blog that the 170 DPF was basically a CR diesel (maybe not!) But what is so important about being ahead.. Remember the Hare and Tortoise story! IMHO Audi design, quality performance (as an overall package) is far superior to BMW stuff! Anyone out there agree?
    Yep, that's a fair point.
    Let's hope the new engine is a good one, when installed in the A3.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfspen
    Yep, that's a fair point.
    Let's hope the new engine is a good one, when installed in the A3.
    It's like any product. FOR EXAMPLE My local is a 14th Century traditional pub and sells superb Butcombe Bitter straight from the barrel at 2.40 a pint. I think it is 4.3 strength by volume. I enjoy the whole experience. I could go to the local plastic pub drink JS Fizzy bitter at 2.25 a pint and it is probably stronger... So B* what... I like nice quick black Audis and accept that they may be 'weaker' in some areas BUT it is the whole AUDI experience I buy... WOW I sound like a marketing person (but I'm not!!)

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  4. #43
    So B* what... I like nice quick black Audis and accept that they may be 'weaker' in some areas BUT it is the whole AUDI experience I buy...
    I couldn't agree more. Except that I'm don't like Black!

    There are other makes of cars that are obviously good, but to me the best overall package that meets my requirements is made by Audi. I am currently on my 10th Audi and my 6th A3 so they must be doing something that appeals, to me at least and quite a lot of others looking at their sales figures. I still get a smile on my face whenever I drive my A3.
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGBArgee
    ....it is the whole AUDI experience I buy... WOW I sound like a marketing person (but I'm not!!)

    TT
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    I agree

    I like Audis, I like them a lot, and indeed I'm currently on my 6th consecutive Audi, and all from the same dealer !

    Much as I admire BMW's diesel engines, I probably wouldn't buy one of their cars, as I don't like their styling, and their interiors are not in the same league as Audis, IMO. But there you go, each to their own !

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfspen
    I agree

    I like Audis, I like them a lot, and indeed I'm currently on my 6th consecutive Audi, and all from the same dealer !

    Much as I admire BMW's diesel engines, I probably wouldn't buy one of their cars, as I don't like their styling, and their interiors are not in the same league as Audis, IMO. But there you go, each to their own !
    Nice to see some (IMHO) sensible comments following my rants!!

    TT
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  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfspen
    I was aware of this article too, but an ethanol powered A5 test mule in the US hardly means that it is imminent.

    I won't be able to buy a CR diesel powered A3 until the Summer at the earliest, and it will most probably not have stop-start either. That is the point of the original poster's thread. Audi are behind, and no amount of semantics will disguise that.
    but didn't read it? as if you had you wouldn't have said there was no sign of stop stasrt in audis? also you appear to have missed it again, otherwise you would see that it wasn't the ethanol one I was talking about, which was clear as I said it twice. i give up.
    Last edited by dm_irish; 5th January 2008 at 21:03.

  8. #47
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    I don't read of many catastrophic failures of PD engines - not the most refined, not the most economical in terms of mpg, but well proven technology.

    CR is better when it works, but when it goes wrong it can be time for a second mortgage.

    BTW I'm reading a few horror stories with Honda CR engines - they aren't bomb proof.
    07 2.0TDi (170) SE DSG Sportback.
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  9. #48
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    I think the most durable TDI PD engine was the 130bhp version...
    Audi A3 (8P) 2.0TDI SE .:. Ebony Black, Sports Suspension, Vienna Beige Sports Leather Seats, Concert II & BOSE, 6 CD-Changer, Xenons, Acoustic Parking Sensors & All The Packs .:.



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  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGBArgee
    IMHO Audi design, quality performance (as an overall package) is far superior to BMW stuff! Anyone out there agree?
    Absolutely - the total Audi package far exceeds that of most other premium manufacturers.

    I didn't buy the car for the engine but for the total package and having driven quite a number of the other premium brands recently nothing comes close to Audi in this respect.
    Audi A3 Sportback SE 2.0 TDI 170 - Lava Grey, Rear parking sensors, Symphony II+, Aluminium Trim

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dm_irish
    but didn't read it? as if you had you wouldn't have said there was no sign of stop stasrt in audis? also you appear to have missed it again, otherwise you would see that it wasn't the ethanol one I was talking about, which was clear as I said it twice. i give up.
    Yes that's fair enough. I can see my use of the phrase 'no sign' was both inappropriate and misleading. And I agree that the new features reported in the link you posted do look very promising.

    I wasn't trying to be confrontational

    Don't get me wrong, if this Summer, the new diesel A3 turns out to have similar refinement to the BMW diesels, I will buy one ! The fuel costs on the 2.0T are starting to get a bit silly now.

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfspen
    Yes that's fair enough. I can see my use of the phrase 'no sign' was both inappropriate and misleading. And I agree that the new features reported in the link you posted do look very promising.

    I wasn't trying to be confrontational

    Don't get me wrong, if this Summer, the new diesel A3 turns out to have similar refinement to the BMW diesels, I will buy one ! The fuel costs on the 2.0T are starting to get a bit silly now.
    thats not fair, being all reasonable now makes me look the nutter!!

    I can see both sides too and tbh am changing this year and here in Ireland from July car prices are greatly affected by emissions. For instance the BMW 318d/320d will come down 14% in price as it's emissions put it well down the tax range. The new 2.0TDI 143 is still a cat higher and will only come down 10% in the A4, it will also be dearer to tax.

    The new A4 with options is already overpriced here and won't come down as much as the BMWs so I may be making the move to them even though I prefer audi. Their pricing strategy and standard specs are woeful here in Ireland though, the dealer I was speaking to at the weekend can't understand the pricing on the new A4 at all. It just isn't competitive

  13. #52
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    I'd still have an Audi over BMW anyday.

    We have a new 530D in the family, which is very nice, but still prefer the audis, both styling, interior build and image!

  14. #53
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    I'm having to choose between 118d and A3 s/b 170 S-Line on my co car list. Heart says Audi but from April onwards it'll cost 110 MORE per MONTH in tax Just don't think I can justify it...

  15. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat6
    I'm having to choose between 118d and A3 s/b 170 S-Line on my co car list. Heart says Audi but from April onwards it'll cost 110 MORE per MONTH in tax Just don't think I can justify it...
    How do those figures work? What about a 140! or have you tried the cash in lieu route if that works for you? 118d looks like an old bread van IMHO!

    Cheers

  16. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat6
    I'm having to choose between 118d and A3 s/b 170 S-Line on my co car list. Heart says Audi but from April onwards it'll cost 110 MORE per MONTH in tax Just don't think I can justify it...
    I struggle to see how this can be - what is the list price of these two cars and the relevant emissions percentage used to calculate the taxable amount ?
    Audi A3 Sportback SE 2.0 TDI 170 - Lava Grey, Rear parking sensors, Symphony II+, Aluminium Trim

  17. #56
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    The main problem with the BMW engines are the cars they are sat in. Until I can afford something like a 335d coupe I will stick with the lesser powered Audi engines in a nicer package
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
    Now: Mini John Cooper Works

  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markm49
    I struggle to see how this can be - what is the list price of these two cars and the relevant emissions percentage used to calculate the taxable amount ?
    From April 08 onwards all company cars under 120 Co2 are taxed at 13%. The 118d is 119co2, whereas the A3 170 is 154 co2 That means 21% tax for the A3, both on the car and the fuel (company pays for all my fuel).

    Unfortunately these are the only two hatchbacks on the list, so the 140hp Audi isn't an option. Monthly tax for the BMW will be approx 175 - not bad for a fully fueled car (I do very little business mileage but about 16k private a year so I couldn't run my own car for that). The Audi at 285 per month therefore seems like a big chunk of money, particularly for a diesel

    I think Audi are going to lose an awful lot of fleet customers to BMW over the next few months. Diesel Beemers are so clean that I'd pay less tax on a 320D ES (another option) than a diesel Mondeo or Honda Accord. They've really got it sussed..

  19. #58
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    the topic was about audi engines being behind bmw engines. didn't ask if you prefered audi's overall package...cause i do myself. but the post was not asking about the overall package it was about the engines.

    Anyways, just read some info on the new TT diesel. Its got the new CR 170 engine fitted into it. It is still down compared to bmw diesel's!! The mpg isn't much better than what they currently do.

    Link

  20. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by pav767
    Why is Audi so behind on diesel engines? They need to look at BMW and compete. Just been looking at the 1 series 120D, and in returns 58.9mpg. I know you wont actually achieve that but it makes the audi diesel look uneconomical. Instead of investing in 50,000 million new models they should start developing new engines...especially diesel!

    Sorry about the rant!!

    BMW big deal MAN does 680 Hp, 3000 Nm of Torque and 6 MPG

 

 
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