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  1. #41
    normski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    Didn't Audi reckon,at one point,that DSG would be the 'gearbox of choice' on the majority of cars sold ?
    I'm guessing that's pretty wide of the mark.
    I'm guessing whomever predicted that will be skulking back to his flat,to watch his betamax video and listen to his minidisc stereo.
    And I believe Audi have said DSG on an S3 wasn't even worth contemplating because it didn't give the same driver involvement or control as manual...
    Silver 2007 S3

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  3. #42
    You most be very lucky to get no delay, there is a definate pause once you take your foot off of the brake. I've learnt to drive round it and it is only very ocasionally these days that I get caught out going for a gap.
    I really don't know if there is a delay or not, but it's not something that I ever experience. Perhaps like you, having been driving a DSG for the past 4 years my normal driving technique has eliminated it. I certainly think that if any delay is evident it will show up much more in D which I only ever use when I'm in a traffic jam. I accept that some people say they experience some delay, but personally I don't.
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  4. #43
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    No delay for me either...might be different as mine is petrol,I have driven a TDI with DSG and I have to say I agree with Bowfer, in the TDI I hated it...I guess its each to there own???
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  5. #44
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    There is a delay on mine......only really noticed it after i had a petrol auto courtesy car from audi.
    No delay on that when pulling away....thought it was just the way the petrol engine responded more quickly then my diesel and nothing to do with the auto or dsg......????
    Audi A3 2.0 TDi 140 S-Line DSG (Met Silver - Bose - Symphony II - 6 CD Changer - Audi Phone Kit - iPod - Center Arm Rest)
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  6. #45
    And I believe Audi have said DSG on an S3 wasn't even worth contemplating because it didn't give the same driver involvement or control as manual...
    But Volkswagen are quite happy to offer it in the 250PS Golf R32.

    I think Audi's decision is probably more to do with not wishing to spend the money to develop other than a manaul S3. They may be right and most drivers who choose an S3 would probably prefer the manual so it's not worth their while carrying out the development to add a DSG option.
    Dave R (h5djr)
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  7. #46
    DIABLO636's Avatar
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    ^^^I agree^^^ - They wouldnt not offer it because they felt 'it didnt give the same driver involment or control as a manual' but then offer it on the TT - R8 or other sporty audi models.
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  8. #47
    There is a delay on mine......only really noticed it after i had a petrol auto courtesy car from audi.
    No delay on that when pulling away....thought it was just the way the petrol engine responded more quickly then my diesel and nothing to do with the auto or dsg......????
    TDI engines can be a bit short of go at very low revs, until the turbo gets spinning, which is generally why their first and second gears are quite low.
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  9. #48
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    I find it suits the 250PS A3 3.2Q well...similar to the R32?
    A3 3.2 Q SPORT DSG Now...Edition 30 Golf GTI

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr
    But Volkswagen are quite happy to offer it in the 250PS Golf R32.

    I think Audi's decision is probably more to do with not wishing to spend the money to develop other than a manaul S3. They may be right and most drivers who choose an S3 would probably prefer the manual so it's not worth their while carrying out the development to add a DSG option.
    That was pretty much what I was eluding to...

    If it can be done pretty easily (eg. the 3.2) then I think they will always offer the choice, but on the A3/S3 2.0TFSI, they don't see the justification in the expense of sorting it...
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  11. #50
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    There must be about 100 threads on here with the same discussion over and over again about the pro's and con's of this dsg box.

    Like dave (h5djr) mentioned earlier at least Audi give their customers the option.
    And the DSG is certainly a better option than a standard auto, even if its not everybody's first choice of gearbox.
    The more options you have the better you can get a perfect match for what you want and what you prefer........
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  12. #51
    Like dave (h5djr) mentioned earlier at least Audi give their customers the option.
    And the DSG is certainly a better option than a standard auto, even if its not everybody's first choice of gearbox.
    The more options you have the better you can get a perfect match for what you want and what you prefer........
    Yes it's great to have the choice. If Audi stopped offering the DSG on the A3 and VW still offerred it on the Golf, I think I would be going back to a Golf.
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  13. #52
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    Having been an early adopter of S-Tronic (nee DSG) there is no way that I'd ever go back to a tedious manual.

    Whether you prefer Drive or Sport, Paddles or Tiptronic, it is a brilliant piece of engineering.
    Audi TT coupe 3.2 quattro S-tronic - quattro GmbH 19" RS4 style alloy wheels - Silver metallic - Magma red leather - Audi Magnetic Ride - Symphony II - Multi-function Steering Wheel - xenon plus headlights


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    Quote Originally Posted by normski
    And I believe Audi have said DSG on an S3 wasn't even worth contemplating because it didn't give the same driver involvement or control as manual...
    And possibly because they can't fit a DSG box into a 2.0 quattro A3? Seems odd to give DSG as an option on the non-quattro 2.0 and the 3.2, but not the 2.0 quattro...

  15. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagman
    Whether you prefer Drive or Sport, Paddles or Tiptronic, it is a brilliant piece of engineering.
    It's certainly a brilliant piece of engineering.
    Unfortunately,it's ruined by ****e software IMO.
    I'd love to try DSG with software that eliminated the traits I find annoying.
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  16. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    It's certainly a brilliant piece of engineering.
    Unfortunately,it's ruined by ****e software IMO.
    I'd love to try DSG with software that eliminated the traits I find annoying.
    goood point - like having different settling for the haldex controller, pushing more power to the back wheels.
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  17. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
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    Now: 2011 A4 Avant 2.0TDi Black Edition Multitronic Aruba Blue
    Gone at 77k: 2008 A4 Saloon 2.0TDi 140 S-Line Quartz Grey

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  18. #57
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    I'll have to admit, after owning a DSG equipped car, i am quite worried about the future and what i'll replace it with! Not sure if i ever want to go back to old fashioned yesterday technology manual gearbox! I'm happy that my car is unique, in that is the only true sequential gearboxed diesel you can by in the UK today (obv with the exception of vw which is identical) - and that has only got to be a good thing for residuals. How many other cars can you say are truly unique? S3? nah everyone and his dog are chucking out 250bhp 2.0 turbos!

  19. #58
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    DSG is certainly an innovative piece of engineering.

    But I personally found it far too clinical in operation which simply took away some of the driving experience, enjoyment and fun. Plus, the software is too nanny like; you should be able to hold onto a gear as long as you like right on the red line.

    Lots to go wrong too in 3, 4, 5 years time...

  20. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve184
    How many other cars can you say are truly unique? S3? nah everyone and his dog are chucking out 250bhp 2.0 turbos!
    Such as...?
    Silver 2007 S3

  21. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by a3norwich
    But I personally found it far too clinical in operation
    I actually think DSG is very crude in it's operation.
    The only time it's truly smooth is when you're changing up the gears under load.
    If you only drove it like that,it would seem very good.
    Other times,I liken it to being driven by someone with poor clutch control.
    For example,downchanges in anything other than 'D' are much jerkier than any half-decent driver in a manual would manage.
    Driving around town is a massive compromise.
    You either put up with the poor throttle response of 'D',or you put up with the jerky traffic responses of other modes.
    Try driving around town in 'manual' mode and you need a neck brace.
    (common to every DSG I've driven,but I haven't driven H5DJR's... ;-0 )
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  22. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    What else is there with 4 doors,decent looks and a diesel engine for around 23K ????
    What about an S40/V50 since you already mentioned the Volvo C30.

  23. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff
    What about an S40/V50 since you already mentioned the Volvo C30.
    I looked at them 2.5 years ago.
    They're fine,but they're a bit old hat now.
    The Lexus would have been a possibility,but have you seen the prices ???
    Crikey,27K for a decent spec,easy !
    X-type is a possibility,as is the new Mondeo (which is getting good reviews)
    New C class Merc is also a possibility,if the price is right (although I think the MD might shy away from Merc,as they may give the clients a wrong image,as even a 22K Merc is perceived as more expensive).
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  24. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve184
    How many other cars can you say are truly unique? S3? nah everyone and his dog are chucking out 250bhp 2.0 turbos!
    Quote Originally Posted by normski
    Such as...?
    ?
    Silver 2007 S3

  25. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    I looked at them 2.5 years ago.
    They're fine,but they're a bit old hat now.
    The Lexus would have been a possibility,but have you seen the prices ???
    Crikey,27K for a decent spec,easy !
    X-type is a possibility,as is the new Mondeo (which is getting good reviews)
    New C class Merc is also a possibility,if the price is right (although I think the MD might shy away from Merc,as they may give the clients a wrong image,as even a 22K Merc is perceived as more expensive).
    Bowfer, I cannot believe you are contemplating an X-type mate...possibly the worst quality "premium" cars I have ever driven...it would be nice to see you happy with your next motor
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  26. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by normski
    Bowfer, I cannot believe you are contemplating an X-type mate...possibly the worst quality "premium" cars I have ever driven...it would be nice to see you happy with your next motor
    Really ?
    We had one X-type (a 2.5 V6 I think) that seemed very well built.
    The X-type also gets good reviews for refinement and handling.
    Always finished ahead of the A4 in any group tests I read too.
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  27. #66
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    Quite like X-types. Rear seats seem a bit small though for a full size 4 door saloon

  28. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt
    Quite like X-types. Rear seats seem a bit small though for a full size 4 door saloon
    In the right trim and with the right wheels,I like 'em too.
    Although I need four doors,actual rear space doesn't matter too much.
    It's only ever kids that are in there.
    The X-type estate is one of the few estates I'd entertain.
    That or a 159 sportwagon.
    Neither really 'look' like estates,if you get my drift.
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  29. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    I looked at them 2.5 years ago.
    They're fine,but they're a bit old hat now.
    Haven't they recently brought out newer / re-vamped versions..... might be worth another look. I'll be looking to change my car in the next 6 - months, very tempted by the 159, but would want to wait for the GTA version. Had a 156 GTA a few years ago..... totally impractical but a hoot to drive...... and what an engine sound !! Also think about waiting for the new S4.... but the way Audi are at the minute it'll be a lot of money before you even specify a steering wheel !!
    Last edited by Redwing289; 15th June 2007 at 09:34.
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  30. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by normski
    Such as...?
    Mitsubishi
    Subaru
    Vauxhall
    Ford
    Audi
    Volkswagen
    Seat
    Chris

    The problem with common sense, is that its not that common.

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  31. #70
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    an X-type is a Ford Mondeo with a Jaguar badge on it.
    Chris

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    such as, mitsibishi (spelling?) lancer, saabs, vauxhalls, blah blah, ok none exactly the same - the point i made was that nobody else does a diesel (economy) 170 (& decent performance) sequential gearbox car - so not much other choice, whereas an S3 - you could go anywhere from there, vauxhall vxr, lancer, saab, ford and pretty much the same

  33. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro
    an X-type is a Ford Mondeo with a Jaguar badge on it.
    That sort of thing can be levelled at umpteen cars though.

    An A3 is a Golf.
    A Saab 9-3 is a Vectra

    Etc.etc.

    They may share some common parts,but it doesn't mean they're the same.
    The Vectra,Saab 9-3 and Alfa 159 all use the same 1.9 GM diesel,but each one does their own thing with it,so you wouldn't believe it's the same engine.
    I believe Alfa put a different head and ECU on,for example.

    Many LCD TV's share parts,but the different processors they use and the different ways the different manufacturers 'weave their magic' makes one hell of a difference.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 14th June 2007 at 13:46.
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  34. #73
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    Oh god yeah, thats right but its still not a "proper" Jaguar.
    My definition of a proper jaguar would be one that shares nothing with another manufacturer, although the new XKR is a DB9 for 50k less, so really none of them are proper jags.
    One of the guys at my office has a 2.5 x type and said he much preferred his A4 cabriolet even though it did have a few faults.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro
    My definition of a proper jaguar would be one that shares nothing with another manufacturer
    Few and far between these days though eh ?
    Only BMW and Merc don't share their parts with 'mass' brands,I think ?

    With regard to 'lesser' models,that's part of the attraction with the 159,for me.There isn't a 'base' model that can be tarted up to look like a better one.
    So if you see a 159,you know it can only possibly be one of a very few engine and spec levels,all of which are pretty decent.

    Some say they'd prefer more choice,but I think choice can cause problems.
    I've never liked the way Audi offer so much choice that you can make a 1.6 look like a top-of-the-range 3.2,for example.

    I just don't agree that you should be able to do that.
    It leads to confusion and blurring of the range,IMO.
    I've already read some people on here having to tell people it's an S3,because your average Joe just thinks 'A3'.
    I think that's a failing on Audis part,I really do.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 14th June 2007 at 14:06.
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  36. #75
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    1 Audi exception if you have the money....
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  37. #76
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    I''ve seen the R8 in the flesh.
    All very impressive,but I'd rather have a low mileage DB9.
    Note What car's comment about DSG on the R8...
    "The R-Tronic semi-automatic version is expensive,and jerky at low speeds"

    Seriously though,will the R8 ever be a success ?
    Will buyers take it seriously ?
    I'm thinking along the lines of the Vauxhall VX220.
    The press loved it,better than the Lotus Elise they said.
    When all was said and done,people still associated Vauxhall with family saloons and bought the Lotus instead.

    I can't help feeling the same could happen with the R8 ?
    Will people spend 75K on an Audi that is being sold alongside 1.6 A3's ?
    When they can walk into a Porsche garage instead ??

    Audi will probably argue the R8 is being used as a means of getting people into their showrooms,these people then buying 1.6 A3's.
    That's all very well,but I bet,deep down,they'll get the hump if it doesn't sell.

    Remember BMW's M1 ??
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 14th June 2007 at 17:10.
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  38. #77
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    Well Portsmouth Audi have sold their allocation for the next two years.

    Mind he didn't say how many they are allocated a year so that could be a total of two

    Seeing as they had a preview day for those that have ordered one, I guess it must be a few.
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  39. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve184
    How many other cars can you say are truly unique? S3? nah everyone and his dog are chucking out 250bhp 2.0 turbos!
    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro
    Mitsubishi
    Subaru
    Vauxhall
    Ford
    Audi
    Volkswagen
    Seat
    My mistake? I assumed that Steve actually meant 2.0 with 250BHP...very few of the above then? Silly me for taking him literally rather than allowing poetic licence...


    Quote Originally Posted by steve184
    such as, mitsibishi (spelling?) lancer, saabs, vauxhalls, blah blah, ok none exactly the same - the point i made was that nobody else does a diesel (economy) 170 (& decent performance) sequential gearbox car - so not much other choice, whereas an S3 - you could go anywhere from there, vauxhall vxr, lancer, saab, ford and pretty much the same
    My mistake? I assumed that you actually meant 2.0 with 250BHP...very few of the above then? Silly me for taking you literally rather than allowing you poetic licence...
    Last edited by normski; 14th June 2007 at 22:09.
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  40. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    Really ?
    We had one X-type (a 2.5 V6 I think) that seemed very well built.
    The X-type also gets good reviews for refinement and handling.
    Always finished ahead of the A4 in any group tests I read too.
    Admittedly my experience is three years only with 3.0 sports, and ragging the arse off them...door hinges and seals falling off, electric seats and mirrors failing, suspension collapsing, amazing wicked brake fade, awful headlights (mainbeam) and worse of all random clutch failures owing to a pin in the housing snapping because it couldn't handle the amount of stress going through it...most of our jags had at least 3 new ones, with one of our first going through six.

    Of course they were used for "spirited" driving...but not since a batch of Senators (that had sat in a field for a year) in the mid-90's or Rover 827's have I come across a car that fell apart so quick...

    Nice to tootle around in though I should think...
    Silver 2007 S3

  41. #80
    4th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    740
    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    A Saab 9-3 is a Vectra
    And the scary thing there is that the Vectra is better built. We looked at a 9-3 before we bought the A4. It was trully appalling inside for a "premium" brand car. Had a Vectra hire car shortly after and it was definitely better built.

    Still wouldn't use my own money to buy a new Vectra. 50% depreciation in the first year is scary. Could stand the indicator/wiper stalk operation either.

 

 
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