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Thread: Stage 2 and 2 +mods

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    Stage 2 and 2 +mods

    Hi all - now I know we should use the search function but I'm lazy and this is a forum where we all chat and give ideas based on knowledge and experience we have on tuning cars !
    I would like to know what parts and possibly a rough idea on cost to take a totally stock 8p s3 to a stage 2 or even 2 plus please ? Would I be right in thinking engine wise and gearbox wise it should hold up except the clutch and flywheel ? Would my list be correct ?
    Uprated clutch and flywheel (single mass )
    Uprated or high flow fuel pump
    Turbo back exhaust (miltek or similar)
    Cold air intake and cone filter
    Remap (revo or the like )
    At this stage it may be a good idea to change to some better discs and pads ? Say ds2500 with slotted discs ? Also maybe front and rear arb's and drop links ?

    Any thoughts please would be great as I'm not sure to buy a tuned s3 or a standard s3 and mod it ? Many thanks Carl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobycarl1 View Post
    Hi all - now I know we should use the search function but I'm lazy and this is a forum where we all chat and give ideas based on knowledge and experience we have on tuning cars !
    I would like to know what parts and possibly a rough idea on cost to take a totally stock 8p s3 to a stage 2 or even 2 plus please ? Would I be right in thinking engine wise and gearbox wise it should hold up except the clutch and flywheel ? Would my list be correct ?
    Uprated clutch and flywheel (single mass )
    Uprated or high flow fuel pump
    Turbo back exhaust (miltek or similar)
    Cold air intake and cone filter
    Remap (revo or the like )
    At this stage it may be a good idea to change to some better discs and pads ? Say ds2500 with slotted discs ? Also maybe front and rear arb's and drop links ?

    Any thoughts please would be great as I'm not sure to buy a tuned s3 or a standard s3 and mod it ? Many thanks Carl.
    Yeah youd be correct with your list, im sure someone else will pop soon more educated to say otherwise lol If you find a descent one already tuned to what you want with proof of receipts and fitted by a reputable tuners and descent mileage id say go for that and save yourself some £££ your looking at over £3k to get everything fitted which is needed to take stage2/2+.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobycarl1 View Post
    Hi all - now I know we should use the search function but I'm lazy and this is a forum where we all chat and give ideas based on knowledge and experience we have on tuning cars !
    I would like to know what parts and possibly a rough idea on cost to take a totally stock 8p s3 to a stage 2 or even 2 plus please ? Would I be right in thinking engine wise and gearbox wise it should hold up except the clutch and flywheel ? Would my list be correct ?
    Uprated clutch and flywheel (single mass )
    Uprated or high flow fuel pump
    Turbo back exhaust (miltek or similar)
    Cold air intake and cone filter
    Remap (revo or the like )
    At this stage it may be a good idea to change to some better discs and pads ? Say ds2500 with slotted discs ? Also maybe front and rear arb's and drop links ?

    Any thoughts please would be great as I'm not sure to buy a tuned s3 or a standard s3 and mod it ? Many thanks Carl.
    As you say,the search function is useful,and will get you a LOT more info than a quick punt like this.

    Your parts list is pretty much correct for Stg2+,and would run to around £4k all in,and a good brake kit will cost another £1200-1500.

    Engine and internals are good for around 460bhp/440lbs.

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    And not to forget to mention since you havent bought one yet if you buy a DSG s3 you wont have to take clutch into consideration
    Revo Steve-W likes this.

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    Cheers guys for your comments, do these parts come up 2nd hand on here much ? I nearly bought reloads stage 2+ with all the gear on it and it went really well but the bodywork just wasn't what I'm used to and wanted, I work in a busy body shop and my scoobys I used to run were mint ! I'm too fussy I think lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack s3 View Post
    And not to forget to mention since you havent bought one yet if you buy a DSG s3 you wont have to take clutch into consideration
    I didn't even know there was a dsg s3 ! I don't think I've seen one advertised even so I take it they are rare ?

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    Parts do turn up from time to time,from folks returning their cars to normal before sale,and the DSG's aren't rare,but you may have to wait before one turns up.

    The clutch pack on that will cope with around 440lbs at most with software upgrades depending on model year,before needing a very expensive clutch pack upgrade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobycarl1 View Post
    I didn't even know there was a dsg s3 ! I don't think I've seen one advertised even so I take it they are rare ?
    Take a look at boydies sprint blue stage2 s3 for sale atm in the classifieds. The dsg box was a optional extra in the facelift models. Not to rare but your looking at spending hell of alot more for one
    Dave-S3 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack s3 View Post
    Take a look at boydies sprint blue stage2 s3 for sale atm in the classifieds. The dsg box was a optional extra in the facelift models. Not to rare but your looking at spending hell of alot more for one
    Boydie's one is just lovely,and well loved into the bargain.

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    Ok cool ! I would rather a manual to be honest although I do like the idea of dsg I just get paranoid on weather it would last as long as a manual or have more issues over the time I own it at least.
    Is there any reason why people go for a single mass flywheel over a dual when upgrading ? Is it down to cost ?

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    I have seen bodies and love it !!! If it was on the mainland I would be interested as I don't have much time on my hands ! Would buying his car from Ireland be much hassle ?As in bringing it over,paper work and all ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobycarl1 View Post
    I have seen bodies and love it !!! If it was on the mainland I would be interested as I don't have much time on my hands ! Would buying his car from Ireland be much hassle ?
    Best to drop him a line and ask him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobycarl1 View Post
    Ok cool ! I would rather a manual to be honest although I do like the idea of dsg I just get paranoid on weather it would last as long as a manual or have more issues over the time I own it at least.
    Is there any reason why people go for a single mass flywheel over a dual when upgrading ? Is it down to cost ?
    Each has their pros and cons.

    The SMF is essential for most uprated clutches aside from the Sachs organic,and has nothing to do with cost.

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    I might do that bud

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    The one on reloads s3 did whine really bad between 2000 and 3000 rpm and put me of a little

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    I am currently in the process of taking mine to stage 2+ and I am enjoying the process. Buying one straight out would ruin the adventure getting there IMO.
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    I agree mate it's the fun of it but I did that 2 times with my imprezas and it cost a good chunk of money I didn't get back,little older and wiser hopefully lol

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    Depends, you certainly don't need to spend £4k to take your S3 to 2+

    The standard cat back system is not restrictive until you are getting close to 400bhp so a downpipe with decat/sports cat, intake & fuel pump is all you need engine wise for 2+ You will end up needing to uprate the clutch too.

    To give you an idea what I've done/am doing to mine.

    Remap of your choosing - £350-£400
    CTS Turbo intake - £275
    BCS downpipe with 200 cell high flow cat - £380 (lightly used)
    Autotech HPFP internals or APR pump overhaul - £300/£470

    Clutch/flywheel, factor in £1000 fitted, also there are enough options around from Sachs, Helix and the likes that that will see your stage 2+ and some and you can retain the OEM DMF although it would be advisable to fit a new one anyway @ £250. SMF has a lot of downsides, too many for me anyway.

    So that's £2300-£2500 ish if you are savvy with your spending.

    At this point you will have a VERY quick car running standard brakes and suspension. At a minimum I'd be changing the pads, fluid & lines, suspension wise springs & roll bar(s) but ideally uprated dampers too.

    And finally but most importantly good tyres!
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    Last time i checked there were plenty of stage 2+ parts in classifieds. That could cut the cost in half at least...
    s3 Ibis White ... Build Thread

    / Black Grill / FbMfSw / Sunroof / Hill Hold / Armrest / Black Leather-Alcantara interior / Rear Parking Sensors / Heated Seats / Folding Mirrors / Cruise / Rns-e mk2 // ttrs-Brembo Brakes / 12mm spacers / Forge Short + Side Shift / 42dd's / ITG CAI / GfB DV+ / Forge Catch Can / Milltek TBE / Forge Twin IC/ Autotech HpFp / H&R ARB's / WALK / KW v3's / RS4 fpr / Loba&Sachs clutch / Revo Stage 2+ / ...


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    The cheapest way we can do the stage 3 conversion on an S3 8P is as follows:

    Cobra Sport 3" turbo back non resonated de cat exhaust system £690 free fitting
    Neuspeed P Flo CAI £231.51 free fitting
    Autotech HPFP internals £320 + £50 fitting
    Shark Performance stage 3 software £399

    All inc VAT so total would be £1690.51

    That isn't necessarily what we recommend by the way, just the cheapest way to do it with new parts supplied and fitted. You could quite easily double that with different and/or additional parts! For example I'd recommend fitting a better intercooler like the Airtec stage 2

    Also, as always with a manual S3 you MUST budget for an uprated clutch.

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    My bill so far is £1,070. Just the pump to do at some point.
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    Would the back end of the exhaust be of noticeable benefit or is it just doing away with the cat the main thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNJ_Motorsport View Post
    The cheapest way we can do the stage 3 conversion on an S3 8P is as follows:

    Cobra Sport 3" turbo back non resonated de cat exhaust system £690 free fitting
    Neuspeed P Flo CAI £231.51 free fitting
    Autotech HPFP internals £320 + £50 fitting
    Shark Performance stage 3 software £399

    All inc VAT so total would be £1690.51

    That isn't necessarily what we recommend by the way, just the cheapest way to do it with new parts supplied and fitted. You could quite easily double that with different and/or additional parts! For example I'd recommend fitting a better intercooler like the Airtec stage 2

    Also, as always with a manual S3 you MUST budget for an uprated clutch.
    Also worth pointing out to avoid confusion for those not aware of it,that Revo's Stg2+ is equivalent to Shark's Stg3,and is software specific for an uprated HPFP.

    Revo's Stg3 is the first big turbo step.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoot Yo View Post
    Would the back end of the exhaust be of noticeable benefit or is it just doing away with the cat the main thing?
    A decat is not really neccessary at anything below a big turbo setup,but it IS cheaper than a whole new exhaust with sports cat.

    The downside is around MOT time.

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    What I mean is the downpipe sorry, is the cat back bit of any real benefit aside from noise/aesthetics on a stage 2 plus cars?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzza80 View Post
    Depends, you certainly don't need to spend £4k to take your S3 to 2+

    The standard cat back system is not restrictive until you are getting close to 400bhp so a downpipe with decat/sports cat, intake & fuel pump is all you need engine wise for 2+
    Apparantly not, you might see a tiny bit of top end power on a dyno with a catback fitted aswell as everything else, but it is something you could add at a later date.

    If it was me i would probably get a CTS Turbo intake £275
    BCS Downpipe & sports cat - £600ish
    Loba Fuel pump £575 Autotech is £320 + fitting, call it £400
    Shark stage 3 remap £400

    No need for a clutch as I'm DSG.

    Basically without a clutch, 350BHP+ & 360ftlbs (stage number dependant on tuner used) can be done 'properly' for less than £1700.
    2009 S3 S-Tronic, Ice Silver, Black Edition - 280 BHP & 296 Ftlb

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    Blimey ! I'm most likely gonna look for a dsg then if I go the stock s3 route unless a sorted one comes up in my price range.
    At what level is an Uprated intercooler beneficial then ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobycarl1 View Post
    Blimey ! I'm most likely gonna look for a dsg then if I go the stock s3 route unless a sorted one comes up in my price range.
    At what level is an Uprated intercooler beneficial then ?
    Any level! I gained 22bhp on the dyno during back to back testing for Forge Motorsport having their intercooler!
    2012 Ibis Black Edition S-tronic S3, 3 Door, Shark Stage 2, MTC Intake Kit, Powerflex Fast Road Dogbone Mount, Full Non Res Milltek Exhaust, Forge Development Intercooler + DV system,
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    Its a tough one, some people will say you need one to get the best out of stage 2/2+ others say its not necessary especially in the UK climate, i personally wouldnt bother, I've seen enough dyno graphs of S3's without intercoolers running good numbers at stage 2/2+.

    Well, you say that but it depends on your budget? As a decent condition, specced up, low milage S-tronic isn't going to leave you with much change out of about £18K+… Whereas the same year facelift model in a manual version will probably be around £15-£16K.
    Jack s3 likes this.
    2009 S3 S-Tronic, Ice Silver, Black Edition - 280 BHP & 296 Ftlb

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    It would be pre facelift bud ! I really cant see too much difference with them to be fair ! When i first started looking at them i couldn't see why they were about 4k dearer !

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    I had the pre cat removed, and only cost me labour.
    Cheap mod, and has given a slightly quicker spool up, and more noise and slightly better mpg.
    May be a stepping stone mod, until you get the BCS or likes down pipe.

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    I'd recommend the dsg, it's a fantastic box and really suits the car. Faster too and you get launch control etc.

    Is it possible to link up the miltek down pipe to the standard cat back? If so I will more than likely go for the miltek downpipe and fuel pump and map next month and follow it up with the miltek cat back at a later date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobycarl1 View Post
    It would be pre facelift bud ! I really cant see too much difference with them to be fair ! When i first started looking at them i couldn't see why they were about 4k dearer !
    I'm not sure on all the differences but I do know The haldex system is different, they also come as standard with things like flat bottom steering wheels and a full driver information system, drl lights etc. They didn't make an stronic version in the pre facelifts so you would have to have a manual either way.. A decent pre facelift is still fetching £13K with low mileage. The facelifts start at about 15k
    2009 S3 S-Tronic, Ice Silver, Black Edition - 280 BHP & 296 Ftlb

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    My budget started at 15k for a facelift, but it climbed to 17k very quickly. Depends on how fussy you are on previous owners, miles, I'd come for a loaded Mk V Gti so couldn't face buying poverty spec. I bought three months ago.
    grchmason likes this.

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    I am fussy mate but cant stretch to 17k i would be able to go 14k for the right car but i wouldnt pay that for a stock one

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    Quote Originally Posted by keendean View Post
    My budget started at 15k for a facelift, but it climbed to 17k very quickly. Depends on how fussy you are on previous owners, miles, I'd come for a loaded Mk V Gti so couldn't face buying poverty spec. I bought three months ago.
    mine went from 13-14k for a pre facelift to nearly 20k after i saw a low milage top spec S-tronic lol, had a look to see if i could get that spec and model cheaper elsewhere and couldn't so bit the bullet and bought, don't regret it one bit! Im not too fussy on previous owners, provided the car has been maintained properly and the condition is good it makes no difference to me!

    The thing with these types of car is people buy them, have fun in them then realise the running costs are more than they anticipate so they get shut, really for no other reason than that! Mines got one more owner than i would of ideally liked, but I'm pretty confident that it was a Dealer demo car to begin with given the full spec on it!
    2009 S3 S-Tronic, Ice Silver, Black Edition - 280 BHP & 296 Ftlb

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    The S3 is a bargain when it comes to running costs, decent mpg with cheap consumables. Only thing that is costly is the clutch/flywheel IMO.

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    I just mean in terms of all hot hatches they all have loads of owners on them most off the time. Look at the Green goblin, christ thats had 3 different owners all on this forum and that's a 2 year old car!
    2009 S3 S-Tronic, Ice Silver, Black Edition - 280 BHP & 296 Ftlb

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    Yeah as has been said stronic was only in the facelift and generally they go for more money. The main differences other than the newer generation haldex system which if I remember correctly has an electro-hydraulic clutch actuator ( it doesn't make noticeable difference when driving), are mainly cosmetic.

    On the pre facelift side you can get a good car if you shop about etc, I managed to get mine for not much more than 10 and it's pretty much fully speced, 3 owners and 55k on the clock when I got it. So it is possible to get a good car, it just can take a good few months of constant searching and not being afraid to travel.
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    Thats a good buy mate 55k 3 owners for 10k ! Id consider that type of deal myself and do a stage 2 plus myself with a mix of used and new parts,when factoring in the cost of clutch say a sachs or the likes does it definitely need the matching flywheel or will it be ok with oe one ?

 

 
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