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Thread: Hypothetically speaking stage 1 a3 vs stock s3

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    OVRA3's Avatar
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    Hypothetically speaking stage 1 a3 vs stock s3

    This is a very boy racer type question...

    My stage 1 a3 2.0 tfsi running 260 bhp and 279lbs ft torque vs stock s3 in a straight drag.. Who wins?

    Any s3 owners in east Anglia?
    A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI S-Line Quattro Stage 1 Tune it up - Lowestoft Custom Remap- 6187 RPM developing 260 bhp 279lbs ft Akoya Silver, Roof rails, Black heated Vienna Leather, Bose upgrade, Bluetooth

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    hahahaha
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    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesO View Post
    This is a very boy racer type question...

    My stage 1 a3 2.0 tfsi running 260 bhp and 279lbs ft torque vs stock s3 in a straight drag.. Who wins?

    Any s3 owners in east Anglia?
    If you work out the power/weight etc,it would be a very close run as you're level on both,and it then comes down to individual drivers and conditions.

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    The person who's clutch doesn't slip...

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    What about if both were DSG? Even closer?
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    All things being equal, there are a few scenarios which will give various outcomes....

    In a straight drag from standstill the s3 will do you if your 2.0t is fwd. If you're quattro then you'll probably get off the line quicker than the s3 but the s3 will eat up your quicker start pretty quickly and move past you.

    BUT from a rolling start its going to be very close for a while if your 2.0t is fwd. If it's quattro then the s3 will still have you.

    Basically, I've just come from a stage 1 2.0t and now drive a car with the same engine as an s3, and my 2.0t was a bit livelier under about 3k rpm, but above that the s3 unit with its bigger turbo wee's all over the k03'd 2.0t. The difference between the two is pretty significant.

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    You could also consider transmission losses from the S3's Quartro and power curves, whos at peak power and torque for longer.

    Closer than a Knats knacker probably.

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    OVRA3's Avatar
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    Thanks gents, bit of a 'Gary boy' question but was interested, just need to find an s3 to drag, there arnt too many round these parts..
    A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI S-Line Quattro Stage 1 Tune it up - Lowestoft Custom Remap- 6187 RPM developing 260 bhp 279lbs ft Akoya Silver, Roof rails, Black heated Vienna Leather, Bose upgrade, Bluetooth

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesO View Post
    Thanks gents, bit of a 'Gary boy' question but was interested, just need to find an s3 to drag, there arnt too many round these parts..
    Just logged in using my normal browser and can see your sig now. Yours is quattro too. It's S3 all the way then.

    Also how accurate are your figures?? Sounds like a big gain from just a stage 1.

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    Don't want to hijack the thread but since it's been mentioned, does anyone know the transmission loss %age for FWD DSG Vs. Quattro DSG cars?

    cheers.
    ................................................
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    Just my opinion but isn't your car 6.9seconds ish 0-60 standard? S3 is 5.5 ish. I know you'll have roughly the same power as the s3 stock but I never though a simple remap could take off that much of a chunk on the 0-60 times. I always thought it would be half a second. Could be wrong but if your right it means mines faster than a RS3 which I'd be happy with :D

    And before it gets pointed out I know the RS3 is a 2.5 and the cars were talking about are both 2.0. Just suggesting.

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    2.0t should have a very good chance i dont see how it would get away though it would stay up with it, same thing when a tdi140 is remapped and against a tdi170 the tdi 140 gets about 175bhp after remap so its a pretty fair race, but no offence the s3 is still the better car as it stage 1 remaps to 320bhp which is very impressive
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ-S3 View Post
    Just my opinion but isn't your car 6.9seconds ish 0-60 standard? S3 is 5.5 ish. I know you'll have roughly the same power as the s3 stock but I never though a simple remap could take off that much of a chunk on the 0-60 times.
    It won't.

    There is definitely a tail off in power as the revs get above about 4.5k-5k in the 2.0T, remapped or not. You'll probably only notice this if you have driven both cars. Whereas the S3 really starts to march on as it hits about 3k through to 6k or so.

    As said, the 2.0T will stay with an S3 if racing in short bursts on the move, but as soon as it turns into a longer run with foot to the floor then the S3 is going to show why it's a lot more than an A3 with a few ECU tweaks.

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    I've got a stock S3 S-Tronic but I still think with launch and the box it would prob piss all over it, especially in S mode with the increased throttle response
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    What about an tdi 170 bhp with a remap vs stock s3? Since the torque figures are better on diesel
    A3 S Line 2.0 TDI Sportback - DSG
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    OVRA3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ads View Post
    Just logged in using my normal browser and can see your sig now. Yours is quattro too. It's S3 all the way then.

    Also how accurate are your figures?? Sounds like a big gain from just a stage 1.
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370511085.369426.jpg

    Dyno was recalibrated before as mine was on after a stage 2+ s3 it's a custom map as opposed to a generic so it's been tweaked quite a bit whilst being logged
    A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI S-Line Quattro Stage 1 Tune it up - Lowestoft Custom Remap- 6187 RPM developing 260 bhp 279lbs ft Akoya Silver, Roof rails, Black heated Vienna Leather, Bose upgrade, Bluetooth

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesO View Post
    Dyno was recalibrated before as mine was on after a stage 2+ s3
    I believe that you are accurate about what the printout says, it's the dyno that I'm questioning. An extra +60bhp from a remap alone sounds a lot to me.

    Did you get a 'before' reading also?

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrecc View Post
    What about an tdi 170 bhp with a remap vs stock s3? Since the torque figures are better on diesel
    Diesels drag their feet too much at the start. It would get smoked


  20. #19
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    Close race, From rolling about 60 A3 would probably get a little jump and then the s3 would take it after 90-100 or so
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ads View Post
    I believe that you are accurate about what the printout says, it's the dyno that I'm questioning. An extra +60bhp from a remap alone sounds a lot to me.

    Did you get a 'before' reading also?
    No before reading but the dyno is defo ok they've got a 200k set up soundproofed room amazing to watch.. The s3 stage 2+ made 336 quite conservative so dyno is reading right I think.. Mines had a lot of tweaks as I said on the map and I've got a very good tuner who has a tfsi himself so knows the engines well.

    Worth mentioning that the owners of the rolling road are revo dealers so were keen to promote their own software not my custom software so they wouldn't have been kind on the recalibration
    Last edited by OVRA3; 6th June 2013 at 10:57.
    A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI S-Line Quattro Stage 1 Tune it up - Lowestoft Custom Remap- 6187 RPM developing 260 bhp 279lbs ft Akoya Silver, Roof rails, Black heated Vienna Leather, Bose upgrade, Bluetooth

  22. #21
    sliced's Avatar
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    If it was a stage 2 TFSI a3 fwd vs S3 stock,then s3 would get advantage upto 50 or so then a3 would pull away


    (Assuming gti and 2.0t a3 are similar cars)
    Current: 8P3 '59 2.0 TFSI 3DR S-Line | Adaptive Bixenons with DLR's | Folding electric mirrors | Heated half leathers |
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesO View Post
    No before reading but the dyno is defo ok they've got a 200k set up soundproofed room amazing to watch.. The s3 stage 2+ made 336 quite conservative so dyno is reading right I think.. Mines had a lot of tweaks as I said on the map and I've got a very good tuner who has a tfsi himself so knows the engines well.
    Guess all that's left is for you to find an S3 to have a tear up with then...

  24. #23
    OVRA3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ads View Post
    Guess all that's left is for you to find an S3 to have a tear up with then...
    Can't find one locally :-(

    Next year I'm going s3 I think too.. And straight to stage 1
    A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI S-Line Quattro Stage 1 Tune it up - Lowestoft Custom Remap- 6187 RPM developing 260 bhp 279lbs ft Akoya Silver, Roof rails, Black heated Vienna Leather, Bose upgrade, Bluetooth

  25. #24
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    Not bad for almost half the price of the the equivalent s3 there or there about's.

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    A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI S-Line Quattro Stage 1 Tune it up - Lowestoft Custom Remap- 6187 RPM developing 260 bhp 279lbs ft Akoya Silver, Roof rails, Black heated Vienna Leather, Bose upgrade, Bluetooth

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    [QUOTE=JamesO;1892218]It's a very different animal to when I bought it, found it a bit boring compared to other cars I've had at first. Had it mapped conservatively first and it made a huge difference, since pushing the map harder its a very quick car, there isn't much I come up against that will come close to it. 4th 5th and 6th are amazing it pulls like a train.

    I think an s3 would have it eventually but I don't think there would be much in it.. Ko3 runs out of steam quicker than the ko4 so it would come down to the driver I think off the line I think I'd have the advantage as the boost comes in quicker.. But I'm not to keen on dropping my clutch in first!

    Keen to find a stock s3
    A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI S-Line Quattro Stage 1 Tune it up - Lowestoft Custom Remap- 6187 RPM developing 260 bhp 279lbs ft Akoya Silver, Roof rails, Black heated Vienna Leather, Bose upgrade, Bluetooth

  28. #27
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    Thing is though, the S3 has a better engine, drivetrain, brakes, suspension, bumpers, seats. Its not just the speed in a straight line that differentiates them.
    Last edited by jimojameso; 6th June 2013 at 14:21.
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  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimojameso View Post
    Think is though, the S3 has a better engine, drivetrain, brakes, suspension, bumpers, seats. Its not just the speed in a straight line that differentiates them.
    This is very true and that's why next year ill be getting one! There is no more I can do with mine now without spending silly money....
    A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI S-Line Quattro Stage 1 Tune it up - Lowestoft Custom Remap- 6187 RPM developing 260 bhp 279lbs ft Akoya Silver, Roof rails, Black heated Vienna Leather, Bose upgrade, Bluetooth

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    If you stick an S3 badge on it you will go even quicker
    ----------------------------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by box500 View Post
    If you stick an S3 badge on it you will go even quicker
    Me reading this thread:



    Posting images heavily correlates with having nothing to contribute to the conversation.
    box500 likes this.
    ​​Programmer/Web Developer, Headphone/Amp Geek
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  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    Me reading this thread:



    Posting images heavily correlates with having nothing to contribute to the conversation.
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370546769.484386.jpg

    You love it when I do that ;-)
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    A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI S-Line Quattro Stage 1 Tune it up - Lowestoft Custom Remap- 6187 RPM developing 260 bhp 279lbs ft Akoya Silver, Roof rails, Black heated Vienna Leather, Bose upgrade, Bluetooth

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    Having owned both Ko3 quattro mapped up and a standard when 1st got S3 i still think the S3 has a big difference what would show in a rip up,the torque on the KO4 gives you a lot more stronger pull definately,i was told my stage 1 map on my ko3 will give it around 245-260 and it was dyno'd at 248 without the evoms filter fitted so that may have knocked it up to around 250-255 with it been more free reving but the Ko4's are a different animal IMO
    Ads likes this.


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  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil76 View Post
    Having owned both Ko3 quattro mapped up and a standard when 1st got S3 i still think the S3 has a big difference what would show in a rip up,the torque on the KO4 gives you a lot more stronger pull definately,i was told my stage 1 map on my ko3 will give it around 245-260 and it was dyno'd at 248 without the evoms filter fitted so that may have knocked it up to around 250-255 with it been more free reving but the Ko4's are a different animal IMO
    +11111

    Exactly my point. Regardless of the similar power figures, the S3's power just has more weight to it.
    Can only really be understood and appreciated if you've owned/driven the two.

  35. #34
    S.
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    bit of OT, ads liking your rocco r. how good is it? any mods on it?
    s3 Ibis White ... Build Thread

    / Black Grill / FbMfSw / Sunroof / Hill Hold / Armrest / Black Leather-Alcantara interior / Rear Parking Sensors / Heated Seats / Folding Mirrors / Cruise / Rns-e mk2 // ttrs-Brembo Brakes / 12mm spacers / Forge Short + Side Shift / 42dd's / ITG CAI / GfB DV+ / Forge Catch Can / Milltek TBE / Forge Twin IC/ Autotech HpFp / H&R ARB's / WALK / KW v3's / RS4 fpr / Loba&Sachs clutch / Revo Stage 2+ / ...


  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    bit of OT, ads liking your rocco r. how good is it? any mods on it?
    Thanks mate.

    I'm still liking it. They come well spec'd from factory, and the performance from stock is very good. I was a bit worried about it being FWD but VW seem to have done wonders in making it get all of the power down and the general handling.

    No mods made to it yet, but will keep it as it is until the new year then go stage 1.

 

 

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