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  1. #1
    Dani_B19's Avatar
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    AGU Head Onto APY S3.......

    Looking for some advise peeps if possible "cough" tufty, welly, mark and bill "cough" haha.

    Will a AGU head fit straight onto my APY block? I know my inlet manifold wont bolt straight up and ill have to get a largeport to smallport gasket but will that be it, will it just bolt staright on after that?

    Ive been doing some research and cant find a proper answer .

    I know my s3 doesnt have VVT but i know some AGU engines did! Is this 100% true? Ive also read my block will have a EGR Valve but the AGU doesnt, can i bolt this from my APY head onto the AGU head?

    Im planning on useing supertech valves and springs, is this the best option?

    Thanks,

    Dan
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

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  3. #2
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    head is a direct swap. There are only 2 different casting LP and SM, everything else is a bolt on or addition

    You already know about the port size differences, the bolt configuration is the same, the manis will bolt straight on.

  4. #3
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_B19 View Post
    Looking for some advise peeps if possible "cough" tufty, welly, mark and bill "cough" haha.
    Like I have nothing better to do!!... no, actually I don't, lol...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_B19 View Post
    Will a AGU head fit straight onto my APY block? I know my inlet manifold wont bolt straight up and ill have to get a largeport to smallport gasket but will that be it, will it just bolt staright on after that?

    Ive been doing some research and cant find a proper answer .

    I know my s3 doesnt have VVT but i know some AGU engines did! Is this 100% true? Ive also read my block will have a EGR Valve but the AGU doesnt, can i bolt this from my APY head onto the AGU head?

    Im planning on useing supertech valves and springs, is this the best option?
    AGU head will bolt on.... all 1.8t heads are transferable to a point.... If the AGU doesn't have an EGR port then you will need to remove the EGR and the air pump... its used as part of the emissions by pumping air into the exhaust ports... it does nothing else than clog up the engine bay....

    Why are you planning to use supertech valves and springs? Are you going BT? a supertech setup will set you back in the region of 700 for the kit alone and will only really benefit you if you are going BT as you can up the rev limit safely with these fitted... pointless tbh on a K04...

    If you are planning to rebuild the head, I would get the exhaust guides replaced as these (so I am told) have a serviceable life of around 60k to 70k.... the ones in my AEB head were shot to bits and you could literally waggle the valve around in them.... this is one of the contributing factors to valve failure (again so I am told).

    My advice would be to strip and clean the head (as it will be a little coked up) and get the exhaust guides replaced (around 80)... rebuild the head using your cams and tensioner as you know the history of them and I don't know if the cam profile is different between the S3 and A3....

    If you have VVT, all you needed to do was transfer that across as it is a direct replacement for the existing cam chain tensioner...

    Are you planning on rebuilding the head yourself?

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    1animal1's Avatar
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    Dani...... you got a map on that thing yet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_B19 View Post
    Will a AGU head fit straight onto my APY block? I know my inlet manifold wont bolt straight up and ill have to get a largeport to smallport gasket but will that be it, will it just bolt staright on after that?
    The only difference I remember from fitting mine was that one of the charge pipe support bracket bolts didn't have a hole to go into on the AGU head - so I just left it out. Not caused me any problems 7,000 miles later. As Tuffty said, the other thing is the SAI system (or EGR). The APY has it. The AGU does not. No hole in the head for the combi valve.

    Do yourself a favour and bin the SAI system, it's just gash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_B19 View Post
    Ive been doing some research and cant find a proper answer .
    I had exactly that problem myself, so I just went with it and hoped for the best! LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_B19 View Post
    I know my s3 doesnt have VVT but i know some AGU engines did! Is this 100% true?
    Nope. None of the AGU engines had VVT. The APY doesn't have VVT either. Happy days.
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  7. #6
    Dani_B19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    Dani...... you got a map on that thing yet
    Dont need one mate , well not yet anyway haha.
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

  8. #7
    Dani_B19's Avatar
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    So why cant they call the EGR the secondary air pump, would be a lot easier lol.

    Cant make my mind up paul wether togo BT or not, think id like to build the head up to BT spec just in case i did then its done with, im defo chaning the turbo, so wether thatll be for hybrid or BT well have to see.

    How muxh would it cost though to use normal inlet and exhaust valves? Could i reuse mine off my APY head? Ill defo replace the exhaust guides.

    Also, would it be worth porting and polishing the head?
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

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    1animal1's Avatar
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    surely theres no point in forking out for a (excuse the pun) big head unless you are going BT doood? complete waste of cash otherwise surely??
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  10. #9
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    Not really, if you can get one cheap enough then why not? Also the head is tapping from the exhaust valve side, unsure if its tappets, valves or rods (kid on SCN had the same noise i have and turned out to be 2 bents rods , just hope mines head related).
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_B19 View Post
    So why cant they call the EGR the secondary air pump, would be a lot easier lol.

    Cant make my mind up paul wether togo BT or not, think id like to build the head up to BT spec just in case i did then its done with, im defo chaning the turbo, so wether thatll be for hybrid or BT well have to see.

    How muxh would it cost though to use normal inlet and exhaust valves? Could i reuse mine off my APY head? Ill defo replace the exhaust guides.

    Also, would it be worth porting and polishing the head?
    Until you are ready to commit to BT I would just look at getting the head refurb'd tbh... do you know the history of the head? it may need a skim but any decent engineering shop will be able to tell you... just be aware that skimming alters the compression ratio, makes it higher which is not ideal for turbo engines unless the rest of the mods support it including the mapping.... a light skim should be ok though.

    Large port won't give you much over what you have at the moment tbh... its a lot of work and expense for very little gain on your current setup... if you plan to go BT then a large port is a worthy addition to the mods and maybe then look to get the work done when you get the BT work done....

    Porting and polishing a large port won't be worth doing unless you are going BT either tbh... then you want to consider how the porting is done... just opening the ports will give you the power but at the expense of drivability... if you want a fast road car then porting a large port is not really required IMO, I just cleaned mine up rather than open the ports... you will want to keep the exhaust ports as they are more or less on a road car as this will speed up the port velocity aiding early spool... opening it all up means driving at 8k rpm everywhere... fine for a race/track car but not so much for a fast road car...

    If you need to change your head then I would say get the LP head cleaned, exhaust guides replaced and valves checked over as they should be reusable.... rebuild using known good bits such as the followers, cams and cam chain tensioner from your old head (if serviceable of course) and use like that.... when you go BT you will need the head off anyway to do rods etc, decide then if its worth doing valves/springs based on spec of turbo and expected power (although I would do valves/springs on a BT anyway tbh)...

    If you have acquired the head for any other reason then I would just hang on to it until you decide what to do turbo wise then sort it from there else you will be doing the work twice or spending money for no real gain.... IMO of course..

    <tuffty/>
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  12. #11
    Dani_B19's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advise paul.

    The head wont be going on until i decide what turbo im going to choose, if upto me itd be BT but with the misses nagging and first house looming over head it may haver to wait.

    Think ill just get the head and clean it up, replace the exhaust guides and light skim if it needs it, then just side line it until the time its required.
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

  13. #12
    Dani_B19's Avatar
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    Before i forget, do you think the head will be any good, i havent recieved it yet but the kid selling it says the head gasket went on the engine and also the exhaust valves bent hence the head is only been sold with inlet valves.

    Will any of this effect the head itself? Due to the HG going, will the head need a light skim now?
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_B19 View Post
    Before i forget, do you think the head will be any good, i havent recieved it yet but the kid selling it says the head gasket went on the engine and also the exhaust valves bent hence the head is only been sold with inlet valves.

    Will any of this effect the head itself? Due to the HG going, will the head need a light skim now?
    Ah.... ok.... get it checked out... it may well have warped the head in which case it would need a light skim.... get the exhaust guides replaced too... other things to check are that it hasn't cracked, they tend to crack between the seats of the exhaust valves... also make sure it comes with all the cam caps as they are machined to the head... you can't just use them from another head as they are line bored and as they are bearing faces in themselves then they can't be machined oversize either IIRC...

    Check for valve seat damage from the bent exhaust valves but these 'should' be ok...

    <tuffty/>
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    Thanks paul, will do.

    So if the cam caps are missing or damaged the heads no good what so ever then?
    Last edited by Dani_B19; 21st June 2010 at 13:33.
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    blimey....whats this likely to cost to do?
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  17. #16
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    Skim is 30/40, guides 80 ish then labour of assembly etc at a guess... not unheard of for a decent large port head for a race car to set you back 1500+ odd....

    Depends what you want, application its intended for etc... can be done on a budget especially if you strip and rebuild the mechanicals of the head yourself saving on labour

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    Large port won't give you much over what you have at the moment tbh... its a lot of work and expense for very little gain on your current setup...
    Agreed. HUGE gains you won't get in standard form, especially if not not mapped at all.

    But, as someone running a K04 on an AGU head, I gained around or about 10 g/s over the previous small port. However, my head change was necessity rather than choice... Was seeing on my Stage 1 Revo around 195-200 g/s, and after large port fitting, then saw 210 g/s. Other small mods have given me some extra flow here and there.

    It does give you the ability to be a little more aggressive on the engine timing advance when mapping I have found. This is mainly due to the head being more efficient. I'm running tons of timing advance now, which I wouldn't of been able to with the previous small port, as explosions would of happened.... 'twould of been bad.

    Better top end performance is another happy side effect, as the air flows throuhg the head better. I was expecting to lose some lower end torque, but that never really happened to be honest. Spool time has been marginally increased, but not by a huge amount.
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  19. #18
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    Skim is 30/40, guides 80 ish then labour of assembly etc at a guess... not unheard of for a decent large port head for a race car to set you back 1500+ odd....

    Depends what you want, application its intended for etc... can be done on a budget especially if you strip and rebuild the mechanicals of the head yourself saving on labour

    <tuffty/>
    I'm going to be doing a ported large port head with bigger valves, uprated springs and cap's and rebuild inc skim for 1500
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    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew@A.L.D View Post
    I'm going to be doing a ported large port head with bigger valves, uprated springs and cap's and rebuild inc skim for 1500
    Thats what i have fitted too a large port ,Ported big valve head .We have managed to use some cut down BMW valves for the inlets
    with uprated ex valves, valve train etc

  21. #20
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    What BMW's ones did you use? Did you use the 20v Collets/retainers?
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  22. #21
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Any reason your going large port Danny?
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  23. #22
    Dani_B19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew@A.L.D View Post
    Any reason your going large port Danny?
    Seen a few cheap heads so though why not, also, like i said earlier on, ive got a tapping noise coming from the exhaust valve side of the head, kid on SCN had similar noise and turned out to be 2 bent rods but un sure what mine is, could be valves, tappets, rods etc.
    Im planning on rebuilding the engine slowly anyway so thought id just buy the head first, it also gives me sumet todo, stripping it down and clean it etc lol.
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

  24. #23
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Are you going BT?
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  25. #24
    s17atw's Avatar
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    We used s3 uprated retainers and collets.I am not sure what model the bmw valves were off we just cut them down and turned 1 new groove for the collet

  26. #25
    Dani_B19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew@A.L.D View Post
    Are you going BT?
    Cant make my mind, want to, but with the misses nagging me for a house it may have to wait until 2012 for BT, if i go BT that is, may just do hybrid.
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

  27. #26
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    I plan to go BT and the head is will be changed after the BT conversion as my ported small port will b good for 400bhp but even then i still think my hybrid will struggle with my head and 2070cc
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

 

 

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