Why did the A4 B5 get screwed over that much

[John417]

Hey guys , as some of you know i've got a tqs for 6 years and even tho lately the car has an unknown suspension problem that's making the handling worse i still love the car no matter what its sentimental to me but i just bought a mk1 leon cupra r 2005 thats running around 260bhp (full scorpion exhaust system , remap , upgraded ignition coils etc ) obviously its a lot quicker then the tqs but i have to say the LCR is so much more sporty i know its top of the line where as the tqs is not but im talking about things like clutch biting nice and low where as with the audi they all bite so high , the steering wheel is nice and thick where as the audi's is so thin compared to the one in the LCR , then there are little things like the headlights being so much better with the same bulb and this isnt cause its 5 years younger even the same year leon or toledo actually has a better light output with the same bulbs , the fact that its got a 6 speed gearbox even the cupra 180 has a 6 speed gearbox why didnt the audi get a 6 speed aswell? I mean dont get me wrong i love my tqs but having driven other vag cars it seems to me that the a4 b5 got screwed over with some things, why did we get the ecu that has to be chiped and not remaped like the seat , even the front brake discs are smaller on the audi then on a stock cupra 180 from the same year and god knows what more , it made me think and i know Seat is supposed to be the sporty make in the vag group but i mean why bother calling the audi a sport model when it could easily come out the factory with many things done sportier, what is everyone's opinion on this?

I forgot about one of the most important bits , the stock cupra 180 got the k03s turbo well most of them anyway , where as the b5 got the tiny k03.

 

[Darren92]

Based on old technology, remember the 8D was released back in 1994!

 

[John417]

I know and wouldnt even compare the pre facelift b5 but the facelift could do better in my opinion. A 2000 reg a4 and a 2000 reg leon will still have many things done better i know this as my brother had a 2000 reg cupra 180 and still it had a 6 speed gearbox , low clutch biting point , better headlights etc. I didnt drive the b6 a4 but if these come with the k03 aswell instead of the k03s then i just dont get it.

 

[matt66604]

Cos seat gets the choice of the parts bin to build their cars.

I’d still rather have a PFL B5 any day ...

 

[John417]

I dont really mind half of the things but the high biting point does take away the sporty feeling and a 6 speed gearbox would be nice on the motorway. But quattro makes the biggest difference as even tho the LCR has around 80hp more you can't put the power down as the tqs but the hp difference did make me determined to go for big numbers in the tqs cause i thought 250 would be ideal but having 260 in a lighter car i think it wouldnt be enough , 300 is the goal now but it is a long term goal really.

 

[aragorn]

Its about market segment and also age.

The 1.8T B5 wasnt intended to be a performance engine. It was a replacement for the mid-range 2.0 model that most cars had around then. If you wanted a fast B5, you bought the 2.8 or the S4. Bear in mind they even sold a 2.4L V6 which wasnt really any faster than the 1.8T, because some buyers will have wanted the V6 option at that performance point.

As a result, the 1.8T had a tiny turbo designed to give excellent low down torque and tractability and 150hp. Back then that was a lot, and the engine was pretty revolutionary. Better fuel economy than a 2.0 without sacraficing power and gaining a huge amount of midrange. The engine went largely unchanged thru the B5 run, and the changes that did happen towards the end of production (the switch to ME7) skipped over the TQS for whatever reason which leaves the TQS specifically at a bit of a disadvantage. The usual advantages of a turbo engine in terms of tuning come from the headroom designed in by the OEM. Thus you can remap the 150ps 1.8T upto 190ish. A fantastic improvement and waay more than you'd ever manage with a naturally aspirated engine without spending thousands. Unfortunatley again, with the TQS being a bit of a special edition, Audi simply remapped the stock engine much as an aftermarket tuner does, and so used up that headroom, leaving an engine without a great deal of additional tuning potential on its standard parts.

The B6 also didnt get the K03s, bar on the 190ps model. I'm not really sure why VAG chose that approach, i presume someone decided the smaller turbo was a better fit for the car, and only fitted the larger unit on the 190 because you'd really be wringing the K03's neck to achieve that and thats not the OEM way.

The Seat on the other hand has the 1.8T positioned as its top-end performance option. Its the same core engine sure, but its setup differently with a much larger factory turbo etc and the nice bits such as the 6 speed gearbox.

Its the main reason B5 1.8T tuning has always been a bit lacking. It doesnt benefit from parts commonality with the smaller cars where the 1.8T IS a performance option, and the performance option on the B5 is actually the S4, which is well served by the aftermarket.

 

[John417]

That's exactly to the point Kevin , it's ironic that the special version was the one with the least room for tuning on stock parts. I guess we'll never know why Audi did it the way they did , maybe it was on purpose to make the S4 stand out more who knows. They could atleast upgrade the ecu to the ME7 to make it a bit easier for us to tune these cars , well i guess we have to be glad we were lucky enough to get Quattro

 

[mojocvh]

Great post john [and others] yes the TQS is at the poor end of the tuning scale however the positives of the lighter engine and Torsen mean, IMO that you can have some RIDICULOUS entry speeds into bends and roundabouts and she'll still turn in and drive you out.
Agree that both more poke and a 6 speed box would be very handy however.