Wheel weights

[AL_B]

This is just an "out of interest" post...

Anyone know the weights of:

17" S3 Avus Wheel with tyre
18" OEM RSTT Wheel with tyre
18" RSTT Replica Wheel with tyre

I think the weight of alloy wheels isn't usually given consideration by a potential buyer.

For instance a bigger wheel could mean a heavier wheel, thus increasing the unsprung weight, which could have some effect of the handling/feel of the car.

Unfortunately, most alloy wheel sellers don't tend to quote the weights, and I think they should. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Discuss... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Cheers

AL

 

[wigginer]

Just had a quick look at the A4 price list.

The 8J X 18 9-spoke (OEM RSTT ?) adds 1.5kg over the standard 7.5J x 17 'kraft' or 'five spoke' normally fitted to the Sports models. On the otherhand these 17" wheels add a whopping 24.4 kg over the normal 16" wheel fitted to the standard models.

However, the 8J X 18 9-spoke (OEM RSTT ?) also adds 1.5 kg over the 8J x 18 'Avus' normally fitted to the S4. So it looks like the standard 'Avus' 18" is the same weight as the lesser 17" wheels, in this case.

It's all in the wheel design at the end of the day. A cleverly designed 18" could be a lot lighter in weight to a 17" or perhaps even 16". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[LYRAC]

In rallying and racing there is a lot of criteria about unsprung weight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Designers are allways tyring to reduce the weight of the car Kevlar Bonet, Boot, Doors, and Seats, but at times they have to make allowances relating to this aspect. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Strength are not the only factors, how much cooling to the disc is available for a tarmac (wider wheels)stage setup as oposed to a forest one (narrower ones)where speed can be scrubbed of by utalising natural momentum to a greater effect, (Scandanavian flick ect) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/froggie_red.gif, right down to the Ice ones (very thin and tall tyres with spikes)

Just to give you all some idea as to how much weight can be saved all be it on a cycle a collegue of mine his son is The World Champion for his age and they hve just taken delivery of a CARBON WHEEL 250gms in total (I think). Not only does it reduce the overall weight of the cycle but it is stronger (as long as it does not take a side impact)than a conventional wheel and is far aeordynamically efficient. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif It would therefore apear that we in the car world can exlect this to filter through in a few years time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Well now that's enough of my late night ramblings!

 

[Ess_Three]

I popped out to my garage today armed with my trusty scales…and took the following readings – note, these wheels and tyre weights are for complete wheels, tyres, centre caps and inflated with air to the correct pressures.


Wheel and tyre weights.

Speedline 6.5” x 15” wheel (Corrado VR6 wheel) and Toyo T1-S 195/50/15 tyre = 15.5 Kg

BBS RXII 6” x 16” wheel and Toyo T1-S 215/40/16 tyre as fitted to a a Mk3 Golf GTI Anniversary = 16.5 Kg

Ronal ‘Avus’ 7.5” x 17” wheel and Bridgestone RE040 225/45/17 tyre as fitted to an S3 = 21.6 Kg

BBS RSII 8.0” x 18” wheel and Avon ZZ1 225/40/18 tyre as fitted as optional equipment on a TT = 21.55 Kg

BBS RSII 8.0” x 18” wheel and Pirelli P Zero Rosso 225/40/18 tyre as fitted as optional equipment on a TT = 21.2 Kg

Anybody got the weight of the Audi RS4 look 18” wheels and 225/40/18 tyres?
Anybody got the weight of the replica RS4 look 18” wheels and 225/40/18 tyres?
..I bet the Audi wheels are lighter!


Basically these gives a good indication of how the wheel & tyre combined weight goes up with an increase in size….but notice how a set of BBS 18” 2 piece RSIIs actually weigh no more than the standard 17” S3 wheels…depending on the tyres fitted, they can weigh less!

These weights also show how BBS wheels tend to be light! They are also strong…in my opinion BBS are the best wheels you can buy, bar none.

Generally, the cheaper the wheel, the heavier they will be due to using lesser materials for construction, lesser development etc.


Wheel weight.

Just out of interest, I weighed a few bare wheels to give some indication of how they can vary:

Speedline wheel as fitted to a Corrado VR6, 6.5” x 15” = 7.8 Kg

BBS RXII wheel as fitted to a Mk3 Golf GTI Anniversary, 7” x 16” = 9.2 Kg

Enkei wheel as fitted to a UK spec Honda Integra Type-R (DC2), 6” x 15” = 5.5 Kg

So, this shows that very light wheels - as Enkei tend to be - are available...some of the BBS range are comparable to Enkei in terms of weight...although I would have to suggest that the BBS wheel may be lighter. Why do I say this?

Have a look at this:

Very light wheels lose strength...so when you hit them hard - like in an accident - they break!
This was a 7" x 16" Enkei wheel from a JDM Integra Type-R, as fitted to my ITR when I wrote it off! Not good.


So, basically...a light wheel is good...but not if it's weak!

 

[AL_B]

Fantastic Glen! You must have a large garage! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

AL

 

[AL_B]

Follow up question...

What amount of reduction in wheel weight will start to have a noticable effect on handling?

AL

 

[simont]

[ QUOTE ]
AL B said:
Follow up question...

What amount of reduction in wheel weight will start to have a noticable effect on handling?

AL

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point AL - as you know I'm exploring suspension mods and this is one area I hadn't considered..

 

[Ess_Three]

I just noticed I missed a few weights of my previous post!


So again, sample bare wheel weights:

Speedline wheel as fitted to a Corrado VR6, 6.5” x 15” = 7.8 Kg

BBS RXII wheel as fitted to a Mk3 Golf GTI Anniversary, 7” x 16” = 9.2 Kg

Enkei wheel as fitted to a UK spec Honda Integra Type-R (DC2), 6” x 15” = 5.5 Kg

Standard wheel as fitted to JDM spec Honda Civic Type R (EK9) & US spec Integra Type-R (DC2), 6” x 15” = 6.4 kg

Enkei wheel as fitted to a JDM 98+ spec Honda Integra Type-R (DC2), 7” x 16” = 7.25 Kg

Will try and answer AL's question in a second!

 

[Ess_Three]

[ QUOTE ]
AL B said:

Fantastic Glen! You must have a large garage!


[/ QUOTE ]

It's not bad...but never big enough, if you know what I mean!!


[ QUOTE ]

Follow up question...

What amount of reduction in wheel weight will start to have a noticable effect on handling?


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm...not sure...I'd say that above 5 kg's per wheel you may start to notice differences, although whether or not one can actually quantify the differences is a different thing.

One experience I can give is this:
On the Honda Integra Type-R, running on the standard 15" wheels with standard Bridgestone RE010 195/55/15s the acceleration was incredible in 1st & 2nd.

Fitting the 16" wheels which, as listed just above weighed almost another 4 lbs / 1.75 Kgs, changed the car completely...now the rolling radius of the 16" wheels was lower (215/40/16 vs 195/55/15) so the gearing was slightly lowered, which should have given quicker acceleration...but it didn't...the car was much slower off the mark in 1st, and slighltly slower in 2nd.
Where it did come into it's own was the balance and poise in corners, on the road...which was worth way more than the loss of acceleration below 50MPH.

So, wheel weights can slow a car down on acceleration if the car has very little torque - ITR a fine example...this should not be an issue for a turbo's VAG car with their torque delivery.

With regard to the handling, there were no adverse effects on the road...the bigger wheel gave the expected advantages of grip due to a wider and less giving tyre...and the suspension feel was unaffected....on the road.
On the track however the smaller sidewall meant the car was less adjustable...combined with the loss of acceleration out of Knockhill's uphill corner meant I stuck to 15s for track use!...but that's another conversation completely!!

Back to ALs quastion...I'd say going from a 17" to a quality reasonably lightweight 18" wheel will not affect the handling sufficiently to notice...swings and roundabouts...a gain here, a loss there.

Going to heavy-assed cheap 18" wheels and adding 5-10+ Kgs per corner would probably numb the handling somewhat.

Going from 16s on an A3 up to 18s would however be noticable unless the big wheels and tyres were fairly light...obviously this statememt could be questioned depending upon the weight of the standard wheels and those you are looking to fit....but fitting heavy wheels with cheap, wide , heavy tyres *could* and to some degree *will* affect your acceleration and handling....it's just that the majority of people won't notice the difference!


I guess the best advice I can give is to buy the best engineered wheels you can afford and fit quality tyres...this minimises the effects as described.
Going to 18" BBS RSIIs (for example) will not adversely affect the handling as they weigh the same as the standard wheels...going to single piece BBS will give a lighter wheel and give handling advantages.

Although to be honest less than 5 Kgs per wheel / tyre on a VAG car I doubt will be noticable...
Going up to nearer 10 Kgs per wheel more will start to show...
And heaven forbid you go to 15 Kgs or more...you will notice a difference!


Out of interest...anybody ever picked up a Radius 18" wheel? Damn heavy...not good!