Wheel spacers?

[Boosted_Six]

Not a rant rather a loud post! Just trying to add some banter to liven up the forum.

But my point is that looks are not important enough to screw with the geometry. You disagree then say that 12mm is ok. It isn't. With a negative offset of say 10mm (typical Audi) you now have 2mm positive offset. The difference between steering with negative and positive offset is massive. The characteristics are different and the design stress areas are different. Without PAS you'd have them off in 5 miles saying it is twitchy or undriveable. But you leave them on as the PAS hides the changes. Stresses are different, the car may track differently, tyre wear will alter, if you ave a puncture the car may veer towards the puncture uncontrollably. It's not the 12/24mm track increase, that's almost irrelevant, it's the potential >100% change in offset or scrub radius.

Calm down dear
All these guys have done is increase track width and moment arm a little, they aren't doing a Le Mans 24 hour, just daily driving!

There is already a consensus on 'this is a mod for looks rather than performance'. ​

I suspect you are amplifying some of the material online regarding the topic: http://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/why-you-should-not-fit-wheels-spacers/?i=1

 

[cuke2u]

How do insurance companies view this modification?

 

[Evil Derboy]

How do insurance companies view this modification?

Varies. Aviva were no change in premium for me, but someone I know with the same car and with Hastings was told that they wouldn't insure the car with them on.

 

[Aldi-Sport Chap]

I think you're being a little alarmist. Yes, you're changing things from the original design, yes you're stressing components and geometry but not to the extent that you'll suffer a blow-out or the suspension will suddenly fall apart. They way you're going on about it, you'd think the car is going to explode the first time you hit a pot hole.

Personally, I've ran spacers and wider wheels with different offsets on cars with no problems throughout my ownership for over a decade. Widest set ever was on my Ghibli at 20mm each corner and never had an issue in the three years that I owned it. Only noticeable difference is on hard lock as the maximium steering angle is slightly decreased

Sorry for the delay I've been out collecting cars from ditches with spacers!

Seriously misquoting me here - Did I mention causing blowouts? Suspension falling apart? Reminds me of journalism!

What I said was you might have issues if you get a punture. You might. You might induce torque steer and probably a bit of tramlining. The tyres will wear more because the dynamic toe angle will be wrong. Some even say you'll stress the bearings more but I think that's a small worry. But it'll have more car park appeal.

40+ years ago scrub offsets were often up to 80-100 mm. It helped make non-PAS cars lighter to turn at low speeds. But we've moved on a lot since then. CAD has helped and suspension is pretty good nowadays. Build tolerances have been reduced dramatically so design has been optimized. Multi links hold things in line more, even on FWD cars. Ideally dynamic toe angle should be zero, but forces are applied when in motion and generally a positive scrub car will have static toe-in and negative scrub cars toe-out. On the move the idea is that they both become zero. So you change yours from negative to positive and dynamically it'll be going the wrong way. Not a lot, but I can feel 4 or 5 psi tyre pressure never mind opposite scrub. Audis feel completely different with S-Line springs, just 20mm lower. So why wouldn't you expect 15mm spacers to make a big difference?

Each to their own but having studied suspension design at BEng level I think I'd leave it to the engineers not the body shop.

 

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

How do insurance companies view this modification?

Hi,
Our modified schemes have no issues with the type of modification.
Regards,
Dan.

 

[Evil Derboy]

Sorry for the delay I've been out collecting cars from ditches with spacers!

Seriously misquoting me here - Did I mention causing blowouts? Suspension falling apart? Reminds me of journalism!

What I said was you might have issues if you get a punture. You might. You might induce torque steer and probably a bit of tramlining. The tyres will wear more because the dynamic toe angle will be wrong. Some even say you'll stress the bearings more but I think that's a small worry. But it'll have more car park appeal.

40+ years ago scrub offsets were often up to 80-100 mm. It helped make non-PAS cars lighter to turn at low speeds. But we've moved on a lot since then. CAD has helped and suspension is pretty good nowadays. Build tolerances have been reduced dramatically so design has been optimized. Multi links hold things in line more, even on FWD cars. Ideally dynamic toe angle should be zero, but forces are applied when in motion and generally a positive scrub car will have static toe-in and negative scrub cars toe-out. On the move the idea is that they both become zero. So you change yours from negative to positive and dynamically it'll be going the wrong way. Not a lot, but I can feel 4 or 5 psi tyre pressure never mind opposite scrub. Audis feel completely different with S-Line springs, just 20mm lower. So why wouldn't you expect 15mm spacers to make a big difference?

Each to their own but having studied suspension design at BEng level I think I'd leave it to the engineers not the body shop.

Didn’t misquote you. I made a comparison to highlight how I felt you were being alarmist about the whole thing. Congratulations on your degree and I bow to your technical expertise in this area however my 10 years of experience in driving various cars with these fitted leads me to the conclusion that in the real world and in day-to-day driving, 15mm spacers or wheels with a decreased offset make a marginal difference on component performance and wear. So, I can understand how you’re passionate about your subject matter but I think it’s causing you to overstate the real-world consequences.

 

[zippster]

due to selling the car I have a full set of ECS flush kit for a s4 b9 including the locking bolts pack too. if anyone is interested.

https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threa...ot-create-a-thread.276442/page-3#post-3315205

 

[bearpaw86]

Resurrecting this old thread!

I have a friend with a CNC machine and spare materials, so we'll potentially look into making some spacers ourselves for the fun of it, and would require some help with the measurements.

Can anyone please measure and tell us the diameter of their spacers? This would be a good starting point for this project.

Thanks!

 

[Daggerit]

Resurrecting this old thread!

I have a friend with a CNC machine and spare materials, so we'll potentially look into making some spacers ourselves for the fun of it, and would require some help with the measurements.

Can anyone please measure and tell us the diameter of their spacers? This would be a good starting point for this project.

Thanks!

Failing that, why not just measure your cars outer hub size as that’s the same diameter as the spacers?


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