Whats the sweet spot for tuning on the S3?

[Daveyonthemove]

Is there a point where the risks of damage are too high, or the expense becomes too much for the gains on these engines?
I know some people are running big numbers and have spent big money to get there, but realistically what is the best value where £ per BHP is concerned?

I'm not looking to build a monster, but a sensible figure for reasonable outlay is something I'm considering in the new year after Xmas is done with.

Thoughts/experience welcome.

 

[JonnyDerv]

Probably at stage 2+ which will get you to the point where the stock turbo is the limiting factor. After that it’s hybrid’s and obviously decent ones aren’t cheap. To be fair doing a hybrid build isn’t too bad considering the gains you get and considering you don’t need to rebuild the engine. But bhp per pound, I’d say stage 2+ as the fuel pump will give good gains across the range, not just peak.

 

[StuartG]

I'd agree on 2+ & the fuel pump - its what I went for!
But when you look at full costs vs gains across 1/2/2+ it looked most attractive.

 

[prt57]

I think the best value for money is actually stage 1. A custom tuner will produce a noticeable difference. However, if you can find a preowned uprated hpfp with low miles the tuning cost will be the same and that would give you more midrange torque. Clutch should still be OK.
Stage 2+ adds in a lot more cash with associated hardware and will be the limit of the K04 turbo. So that is probably the max you would go before the build starts to become really expensive. A hybrid turbo will definitely need an uprated intercooler and an uprated lpfp so there is another £3.5K if you want the best. The gains and delivery are there but are they worth the extra cash?
A forged engine will allow a big turbo to produce immense power but it is even more expensive and you’ll never get the cash back when you sell.
I am at stage 2+ and am really tempted by a TTE 420 next year but my sensible head says save the money!

 

[paddy]

I ran stage 1 revo for 6 years and was perfectly happy, it gives a noticeable improvement on stock and will put you up at the latest S3/GolfR performance level,
You are then looking at another £2.5k+ to get to Stg2+ and be working efficiently, Ideally you need a Map/Fuelpump/ intake/Downpipe and cat and preferably an Intercooler to prolong reliability and get max figures.Any more is going to need a new Turbo and will stress the engine unacceptably imho but others have done it and seem to be ok at the moment.

 

[fernando young]

Stage 1, and a pedal box. That combo does magic.
But be aware, once you start i'll end in stage 2+ at least... mostly haha

its been three years that i say 'this is the last mod' and guess what... it's a lie

 

[Daveyonthemove]

Ok, so there are some interesting opinions, but more info would be good.

Stage one maps can vary in price and performance output, so ultimately they must be regarded as best value due to the fact they need no further hardware? So a £300 map could put the car up to 310bhp?

Stage 2, Minimum hardware of CAI and free flow exhaust? Map + hardware = how much cost and performance?

Stage 2, as above with uprated HPFP? How much cost and performance?

I know the above varies from company to company and many people have loyalty with one over another, so lets not go into all that.
Let's talk generic figures and costs (E.G: Stage 1- £300-600 and 290-315 bhp etc)

I'm not looking to go stage 2+ personally but it's good to know if others are wanting to know the same.

 

[paddy]

The thing about stg 1 is you don't need a custom map as they are all designed to work on a factory stock set up. Obviously if you then start a mix and buying spree you are unlikely to find a generic map to cover your setup but that said all stg one needs and even this is optional is a CAI.
I ran Revo for 6 years and it was great, i bought the optional plug in switch which lets you fine tune the stock map with timing , fuel and boost setting so for example if you are doing a track day you could turn the boost up or if you were abroad and couldn't get decent petrol you could turn the fuel octane setting down.
I now run APR so i have a spare Switch unit if you go revo.

stg 2 is not worth bothering with IMHO, its small gains from stg 1 and you will go to stg2+ anyway.
APR map £500 , APR down pipe and 200 cell cat £900 , VWR CAI £500 , Wagner IC £900 give or take a few bob.

You can get cheaper maps and parts but i really do think you get what you pay for with motoring upgrades. By stg2+ you are looking at 6 cyl Porsche Carrera power or V8 Ferrari F355 GTS from a little 2ltr 4 pot engine so buy it nice bits.....and keep your fingers firmly crossed

 

[prt57]

As Paddy says, you don’t need a custom map at stage 1 but a custom mapper such as RTech will get the best out of your particular car but safely too. Even though you may have standard hardware, parts wear and so that needs to be taken account of. Also they perform extensive pre mapping tests on the car to check everything is running fine. The last thing you want is a dodgy injector if you are running more power.
For my first map I had Superchips and I flashed it myself. So certainly no checking apart from I thought the car was running fine!
Then APR stage 1+ followed by stage 2+ Both times the car was flashed with no health check beforehand.
If I was starting again, I would go down the custom mapping route but only with the most highly respected tuners. There are backstreet outfits who claim massive gains but the power comes in with a spike and so is not healthy long term.
Regarding stage 2/2+ you only need the downpipe changing as the minimum.
Regarding costs, decent quality parts can be bought 2nd hand when people swap their cars back to stock before selling as a standard vehicle. Something like a Loba hpfp will be 2/3 of the original price with not too many miles on. I would not buy 2nd hand uprated pump internals like Vis or Autotech unless you know the history as they are precision pieces of kit and can be spoilt with rough handling.

 

[Daveyonthemove]

All good info, thanks guys.
I'm really not looking to go to stage 2+, if I'm going to throw that sort of money at a 12 year old car with 114k on the clock i'd be better off trading in for something else.
I'm thinking that if my exhaust is showing signs of wear and needs replacing then I will look at Milltek (or others) as the quality will be better for similar price of OEM. At that point I'll consider a CAI to make the most of it and go to MRC for stage 2 from them, but that is as much as I can justify spending on this car.
I uprated the clutch when that was replaced so I had this option available at a later date.

 

[JonnyDerv]

I disagree with not needing a custom map at stage 1. Engines wear differently, there can be a large difference between one engine and another with the exact same hardware even at similar mileage. For example some engines are happy to take more advanced ignition timing that another would not. Plus with a good tuner your car will get a proper health check before hand too. After seeing numerous generic maps and custom maps on the same vehicles I don’t consider them the same.

 

[Daveyonthemove]

I disagree with not needing a custom map at stage 1. Engines wear differently, there can be a large difference between one engine and another with the exact same hardware even at similar mileage. For example some engines are happy to take more advanced ignition timing that another would not. Plus with a good tuner your car will get a proper health check before hand too. After seeing numerous generic maps and custom maps on the same vehicles I don’t consider them the same.

I'd say that's a fair point. From factory they should all be identical, but we all know that the same rolling road can give vastly different numbers on the same stock cars when compared to each other.
I think the point is that the tolerances are catered for on a stage 1, so you will still see an improvement without causing damage, but it's unlikely to be the best results for the car compared to bespoke stage 1 tune.

 

[paddy]

A stock exhaust will be far better quality than a milltek and will probably flow better. the restriction is the down pipe and cat but that will not really bother you at stg1/310bhp
edit ..i just noticed you have a manual so that's another big plus for stg1 max on a std clutch