what brakes?

edward_harris

edward_harris

s3 gone now a shiney red evo 6
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soon to be getting some brakes for the s3, ( advice from everyone on here !) whats best to go for, brembo gt kit has been mentioned, can you get bigger? whats the best for stopping power?
 
Brembo GT is best all rounder for the money, but if money is no object, Scroll down to ECS stage 5 brakes with Porsche Cayenne 6-pot calipers... now that's STOPPING POWER!, with probably zero brake feel lol

ECS Brakes linky
 
edward_harris said:
soon to be getting some brakes for the s3, ( advice from everyone on here !) whats best to go for, brembo gt kit has been mentioned, can you get bigger? whats the best for stopping power?
Click to expand...

You can go as big as your wallet will allow...
You can have Brembos, APs, or various others.
You can also have Brembos with a Porsche logo on them...to be even more bling.

But none of them stop you any better than the Brembo GT Jr kit designed to work with the car and it's master cylinder.

That kit is brilliant...andthing more is bling/wasteful.

If it were me (again) I'd fit the Brembo kit...
That'll give you all the braking you'll ever need even on a very well set up S3...if you track the car and fade them, you simply fit higher heat range pads. Job done. But for the road and mild track work...they are great.
 
jojo said:
Brembo GT is best all rounder for the money, but if money is no object, Scroll down to ECS stage 5 brakes with Porsche Cayenne 6-pot calipers... now that's STOPPING POWER!, with probably zero brake feel lol

ECS Brakes linky
Click to expand...

...and much more weight in the wrong place...undoing all the good you've just done with the suspension upgrades.
 
Worth checking fleabay, as the callipers, carriers, discs and pads are shared with the Leon Cupra R. OK, you won't get bling cross drilled discs (which can crack), but you get the same setup. I got mine for £400 almost new on the 'bay. Probably the best £400 I've spent on the car.
 
and also if you have money, go for the brembo gt kit with the 2 piece disks as they are lighter...
 
dultanur said:
and also if you have money, go for the brembo gt kit with the 2 piece disks as they are lighter...
Click to expand...

but there more like £1500 new rather than £800 .....thats alot of extra cash for ?very little? actual weight saving.
 
Edward speak to Ed about a brembo gt kit im going to be down at APS tomorrow getting a few things done going to enquire about a gt kit for myself,

Jason
 
audi upgrades
they look a different shape to the GT kit calipers
 
twofivenine said:
ebay linky

brembo gt kit - £112 with 7 hours to go....
Click to expand...

no carriers?.... and they about £100 per side, plus braided hoses, 323mm discs and pads (would never fit 2nd hand myself)...gotta be looking at £500+ ontop of the caliper price.

personally i would buy new
 
Definately buy new.

I fitted them to my 8L S3 after EBC drilled and grooved discs and redstuff pads (which gave little improvement).

Got the whole kit for £500 from a written off Cupra R which had only done 4k so was lucky. Unless you know the history ( and it can be verified) from where they are coming from then buy new!

Like Ess says all you will ever need for a S3.
 
twofivenine said:
ebay linky

brembo gt kit - £112 with 7 hours to go....
Click to expand...


BEWARE!!
These are not Brembos for the S3!!
Those callipers are not radial mount...they have inbuilt brackets for mounting to hubs.
I suspect they are from an Evo, Subaru or similar...and in all likelyhood will not fit.

The Brembos that fit the S3 - be they Brembo badged or Porsche badged - are radial mounted and need a calliper carrier.
 
S3_MCD said:
but there more like £1500 new rather than £800 .....thats alot of extra cash for ?very little? actual weight saving.
Click to expand...

You can get a kit from Hi-Spec for about £1200 with 2 piece discs. Think theres is a big difference in weight. I couldn't believe how heavy the new front discs for the S3 were. Don't remember the 2piece discs i've got on the corrado being that heavy, but its 3years since i fitted them.
 
i'd say around 3-4kg.s each?? dont know, but that sure is lttle difference for that much money. just saying if you have too much money lying around, doing nothing :D
 
Personally, I prefer 1 pc discs.

A lot may be location dependant...but in the frozen north, land of salt, they are easier to look after with no rattling or seizing of the 2 pieces.

Also, the standard 1 pc discs can be replaced by strolling into any SEAT dealer...not always the case with aftermarket multi-piecs discs.

You pays your money, and makes your choice.
 
audi upgrades
Ess_Three said:
Personally, I prefer 1 pc discs.

A lot may be location dependant...but in the frozen north, land of salt, they are easier to look after with no rattling or seizing of the 2 pieces.
Click to expand...

Is that the only/main reason Glen? Ease of maintenance?

Porsche have gone back to 1 piece disks on a few models so that also must say something about longevity/durability...

I've had these ECS 2-piece disks on for over 2 years now with no problems but they are 334mmx32 rather than the 322mm of 993TT/996 models.

Six ring trips and Oulton and Donny trips use as well...
 
Stewart said:
Is that the only/main reason Glen? Ease of maintenance?

Porsche have gone back to 1 piece disks on a few models so that also must say something about longevity/durability...
Click to expand...

Yeah...

I'm not sure why Porsche have gone back to 1 pc.
There is obviously no advantage in using 2pc performance wise...

In all honesty, when you include making the discs strong enough for multi-pc use, then add up the weight of the high-tensile bolts, nuts and bells...the weight advantage is very little too...and it's so close to the centre of the wheel to have little rotational advantage (gyroscope effect) and obviously little extra on the unsprung weight, in real terms.

I suppose it could be down to maintenance...easier to swap out one for one...no dissassembly / reassembly, so cheaper labour.

And with current soft discs for no asbestos pads...they wear out quickly anyway.

Porsche now use 1pc discs on all models with steel discs.
Only the carbon composite rotors are different, for obvious reasons.

Even the GT3 Cup discs are single piecs...350mm singles...just thinner to save weight.

If it's good enough for Porsche on a GT3 /996 TT /997 TT, it's good enough for an S3!...or my C4S!


I've had these ECS 2-piece disks on for over 2 years now with no problems but they are 334mmx32 rather than the 322mm of 993TT/996 models.

Six ring trips and Oulton and Donny trips use as well...
Click to expand...

No doubting that they work...
But any better than 1pc?
Probably not...
 
Ess_Three said:
No doubting that they work...
But any better than 1pc?
Probably not...
Click to expand...

Can't really say, I didn't have the 1 piece OEM disks on long enough to give an informed critique...I would guess that if the OEM 1 piece were drilled and grooved (as in the ECS items) then I wouldnt be able to notice the difference...

On a slightly different note, Cory from Quattronics does a 996 Brembo/Porsche upgrade using R32 disks but won't use 2 piece disks (He actually quoted ECS 2 piece disks) as he reckons they warp too easily.

I guess this is due to the extra heat generated due to the extra clamping force (and therefore friction) of the 4 pot caliper...

I've gone round in circles researching what I should upgrade/sidestep to... I would like to keep the R32 disks as I have 2 spare sets...gah, wish I had the time to try out a few different sets!
 
who really cares that much.........................






........sorry ive had a couple of beers!


Ive had 2 piece and 1 piece brakes and thay have both been top notch - 2 piece are cheaper to manufacture so consider that...... :)
 
will_b said:
Ive had 2 piece and 1 piece brakes and thay have both been top notch - 2 piece are cheaper to manufacture so consider that...... :)
Click to expand...

2pc cheaper?
With individual bells and lots of high tensile bolts?
You sure it's only a couple of beers you've had? :)

I'd say 1pc is cheaper...
But if Porsche found 2pc worked better, they'd still be using them. A few ££s differeence on a car costing £80k upwards is a drop in the ocean.

And since 996s brake harder than 993s (single pc vs 2pc) I think we can safely say the disc arrangement is largely irrelevant.
 
Stewart said:
On a slightly different note, Cory from Quattronics does a 996 Brembo/Porsche upgrade using R32 disks but won't use 2 piece disks (He actually quoted ECS 2 piece disks) as he reckons they warp too easily.
Click to expand...

I'm not the slightest surprised.

Many companies that use exotic 2pc discs are actually using turned down single piece discs, drilled for the bells, and fitted to a bell of the correct offset.

The problem here is the quality of the disc blank.
Crap in = crap out.

You use a cheap disc (not capable of the temperature cycles that more expensive, better designed and cast discs are) and drill it (weaken it) and I'm not in the slightest surprised that they warp.

Personally, and it is a purely personal view, I wouldn't touch anything that wasn't properly designed by a majoy manufacturer...certainly not a re-hashed cheap *** disc modified to work.
Anything Brembo, AP, Nissin etc I'd trust.
Many of these 'others' I wouldn't as I've heard / come accross too many horror stories of warping discs, sticking callipers etc....so I'd not have them on my car. At all. I, personally, would put ECS in this group, until I've proven otherwise.

At the end of the day, it's the thing between you and the heavy / solid thing you are trying to avoid.
 
sorrry i thought this was an audi forum...........!

2pc brakes are cheaper to produce becaude they make one stud pattern and one disc and mate them together making the disc replacement cheaper as only they need to be replaced which they can mass produce as they fit multiple discs.
 
will_b said:
sorrry i thought this was an audi forum...........!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't even go there....


2pc brakes are cheaper to produce becaude they make one stud pattern and one disc and mate them together making the disc replacement cheaper as only they need to be replaced which they can mass produce as they fit multiple discs.
Click to expand...

Nope.
2pc rotors may be cheaper...but 2pc complete assemplies are dearer.

There are two parts that need casting / machining.
Then the cost of the bolts.
Then the time to bolt them together.

Look at the selling costs to prove that...
 
Make two piece rotors for a car, offer several different discs for it, and even just replacing the disc part when its worn and manafacturer wise its cheaper! Trust me...im a DJ...!

PS. bolts are made on such a massive scale that they cost sod all!
 
will_b said:
Make two piece rotors for a car, offer several different discs for it, and even just replacing the disc part when its worn and manafacturer wise its cheaper! Trust me...im a DJ...!
Click to expand...

It's not...

You have twice the machining to do...
Discs (single pc) cost very little to churn out.
Cast them, machine them, heat treat them, hone them...sell them.
You have that twice on 2pc.

If I may be permitted to talk about another brand on YOUR beloved Audi forum, you will find that, for example, Porsche (who were one of the few makers to use 2pc discs - and whose callipers we were discussing in a previous post) charge much less for a complete disc swap on a 996 TT than they did on a 993 TT.

The 993 rotors alone are about the same price as complete 996 discs.
And this from a maker not known to do the customer any favours with their pricing.


PS. bolts are made on such a massive scale that they cost sod all!
Click to expand...

Lets say 8 high tensile bolts per rotor/hat.
4 assemplies per car.
32 bolts...as say £1 each plus VAT.

Then the labour...about 1 hour per rotor/hat to strip, clean the corrosion off the faces, emery, re-assemble with new bolts, torque the bolts correctly then put the callipers & wheels back on.
...at £100+ VAT per hour.

Sure...bolts cost nothing.
But fitting these 'free' bolts could cost you £400.

So that's you paid £400 more for no braking advantage. Great.
I'll vote for that waste of money. Not.
 
For sake of argument, the manufacturing cost of the bolts should be more in the region of 30p each, even for very good ones, but other than that, I concur....
 
audi upgrades
S2Avant said:
Which part of a disc is honed?
Click to expand...

The disc face.

At least it is on Porsche discs...the 2pc parts we were talking about.
The face is honed perfectly flat...you can see the swirly scratch marks on the disc face.

Or so the guide at the Porsche factory says, anyway. I have no readon to doubt him.

Cheaper (often OEM) discs tend not to be.
 
I have been looking into new brakes on my car and there dose not seem to be many other companies out there doing them

I have driven a GT3 RS with floating discs and that sounds good when braking

I'm surprised no one has gone for Carbon upgrades yet...!!!

Glen we had a 996 04 C4S with carbons in, the guy had 19inch Techart wheels on it GT2 Body kit...they nicked his wheels and left it on the discs, all four discs are damaged.....


......£19,500 later he got new brakes...!! ouch insured with privelage
 
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