W3STY's Progress Thread

What colour S3 Avus for the Track?

  • Porsche Guards Red

    Votes: 43 57.3%

  • Kawasaki Green

    Votes: 32 42.7%
  • Total voters
    75
Westy said:
Mate my day is busy enough as it is without having to worry about this ***** and get all the grief from the gf for spending more money on my car after just forking out on the map :(
Click to expand...

you are chasing getting the MAX out of a k04
by definition..... something running at its max is going to be more stressed, as are components around it, than something bigger but working less hard

hoping for you its just a gasket of course.. as the jobs going to be a right pia..

good luck fella
 
badger5 said:
you are chasing getting the MAX out of a k04
by definition..... something running at its max is going to be more stressed, as are components around it, than something bigger but working less hard

hoping for you its just a gasket of course.. as the jobs going to be a right pia..

good luck fella
Click to expand...

Cheers Bill.

Thing is I'm not wringing the turbos neck as its only running 21psi. Some guys are running 25+ on their K04s.

Bottom line is I have a cheape flimsy mani which is renowned for cracking and I've run it for 6 months without a turbo support bracket.
 
Westy said:
I told her this morning as we need to borrow her mums car if possible.
Click to expand...

You fool.

Hoping to be chasing you down the road soon enough, although WMI will aid you... Have to hope it breaks (Nothing personal)
 
Westy said:
Cheers Bill.

Thing is I'm not wringing the turbos neck as its only running 21psi. Some guys are running 25+ on their K04s.

Bottom line is I have a cheape flimsy mani which is renowned for cracking and I've run it for 6 months without a turbo support bracket.
Click to expand...

Why don't you have the turbo support bracket?
 
Westy said:
Cheers Bill.

Thing is I'm not wringing the turbos neck as its only running 21psi. Some guys are running 25+ on their K04s.

Bottom line is I have a cheape flimsy mani which is renowned for cracking and I've run it for 6 months without a turbo support bracket.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.

I hope the manifold isn't cracked for your sake, would be ****** annoying. I have my fingers crossed that you'll be pleasantly surprised and find it's the turbo to manifold gasket has blown through.
 
16Klappe said:
My thoughts exactly.

I hope the manifold isn't cracked for your sake, would be ****** annoying. I have my fingers crossed that you'll be pleasantly surprised and find it's the turbo to manifold gasket has blown through.
Click to expand...

I really hope so mate as that'll be nice and easy to replace and I'll know by tonight.
 
Westy said:
Cheers Bill.

Thing is I'm not wringing the turbos neck as its only running 21psi. Some guys are running 25+ on their K04s.

Bottom line is I have a cheape flimsy mani which is renowned for cracking and I've run it for 6 months without a turbo support bracket.
Click to expand...

dude you are ringing its neck... forget peak spike boost numbers... its producing the max power it can.. which is flat out.. No more left in it, wg nailed shut etc the power delivery is late... for a k04, and because niki has been trying to manage temps... low end boost spike kicks low end torque bu cyl temps are too hot to sustain power at top end @ same time. You cant have your cake and eat it, and he's gone for less is more in boost terms, max'd the ign opportunitys whilst its lower boost at the lower rpms, and got it to hold as long as possible up the revs to hold torque higher in the rev range, hence crack the 300bhp.... but its flat out.. We have all been reading the fb posts...

Dont get fixated on peak boost. Sustained boost at higher rpm = flat out and all that could be got, was got by niki.. I'm sure of it.



v1 relentless... not exactly the best, and v3 is superior fo sho... but my comment stands. your whole mission posted across the forums is to get the max from the k04... Expect some side effects of this..

no support bracket? really? omition or by choice?
fit it on v3 dude
 
Last edited:
badger5 said:
dude you are ringing its neck... forget peak spike boost numbers... its producing the max power it can.. which is flat out.. No more left in it, wg nailed shut etc the power delivery is late... for a k04, and because niki has been trying to manage temps... low end boost spike kicks low end torque bu cyl temps are too hot to sustain power at top end @ same time. You cant have your cake and eat it, and he's gone for less is more in boost terms, max'd the ign opportunitys whilst its lower boost at the lower rpms, and got it to hold as long as possible up the revs to hold torque higher in the rev range, hence crack the 300bhp.... but its flat out.. We have all been reading the fb posts...

Dont get fixated on peak boost. Sustained boost at higher rpm = flat out and all that could be got, was got by niki.. I'm sure of it.



v1 relentless... not exactly the best, and v3 is superior fo sho... but my comment stands. your whole mission posted across the forums is to get the max from the k04... Expect some side effects of this..

no support bracket? really? omition or by choice?
fit it on v3 dude
Click to expand...

Would you say that your B5 TIP creates more power whist putting the turbo under less strain? That's something I've never quite understood but presumed as the case.

Not looking for a fight, genuine interest on your opinion of flow vs power vs reliability. Reason I ask is you just said "something running at its max is going to be more stressed, as are components around it, than something bigger but working less hard"

But I'm not sure if you mean a bigger turbo, or the components in general. Because by all accounts the turbo isn't running at it's maximum, so I'm presuming you mean the surrounding components in their entirety? But Westy has your own B5 TIP, he has a Relentless manifold, he has WMI, a beefy FMIC and I'm pretty sure he has rods doesn't he? What else can there be that isn't up to 300bhp?

From what I can gather, the reason Westy/all the other high power K04 setups that are coming out of Niki's are making the power they do is due to the flow and boost characteristics. Surely 21PSI from a K04 is well within it's safe operating parameters? I've always presumed it would be exerting the same strains on the components as a GT28 (for instance) at 16PSI making the same power?
 
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16Klappe said:
Would you say that your B5 TIP creates more power whist putting the turbo under less strain?

Not looking for a fight, genuine interest on your opinion of flow vs power vs reliability. Reason I ask is you just said "something running at its max is going to be more stressed, as are components around it, than something bigger but working less hard"

But I'm not sure if you mean a bigger turbo, or the components in general. Because by all accounts the turbo isn't running at it's maximum, so I'm presuming you mean the surrounding components in their entirety? But Westy has your own B5 TIP, he has a Relentless manifold, he has WMI, a beefy FMIC and I'm pretty sure he has rods doesn't he? What else can there be that isn't up to 300bhp?

From what I can gather, the reason Westy/all the other high power K04 setups that are coming out of Niki's are making the power they do is due to the flow and boost characteristics. Surely 21PSI from a K04 is well within it's safe operating parameters? I've always presumed it would be exerting the same strains on the components as a GT28 (for instance) at 16PSI making the same power?
Click to expand...

For once, and this is probably the only time ever, I agree with Jardo and can see he has put a valid point forward. :wtf:
 
you're missing the point totally jardo.....

21psi is a peak figure.

it's what it's holding top end that's pushing it hard.

Peaking 21psi isn't high no, but trying to hold it flat out at 6k+ rpm is.

I have no question that Niki's mapping is brilliant and he's extracted some serious power from westys car, but lets not kid ourselves that is isn't the absolute limit of what it can produce.

Just because it's not producing the highest peak boost figures doesn't mean it isn't flat out.

Boost is limited low down to reduce heat and stop the WG being blown open by a big spike.

At the top end the WG will be nailled shut and the little ko4 will be giving everything it possibly can. There's no other way to get 300bhp+ numbers from a stock k04-023
 
i would have thought that with a B5 TIP the turbo would be doing less work for the same boost request putting less strain on the turbo because of reduced frictional losses through the larger gauge TIP
 
16Klappe said:
I've always presumed it would be exerting the same strains on the components as a GT28 (for instance) at 16PSI making the same power?
Click to expand...

A valid point on theory, but in reality, it's not the case.

This 'strain' we're talking about that kills things, is mainly heat.

The gt28 will flow the same volume of air at a much lower boost, and do it with much less heat being produced, thus putting all the other components under less strain for the same power.
 
Prawn said:
you're missing the point totally jardo.....

21psi is a peak figure.

it's what it's holding top end that's pushing it hard.

Peaking 21psi isn't high no, but trying to hold it flat out at 6k+ rpm is.

I have no question that Niki's mapping is brilliant and he's extracted some serious power from westys car, but lets not kid ourselves that is isn't the absolute limit of what it can produce.

Just because it's not producing the highest peak boost figures doesn't mean it isn't flat out.

Boost is limited low down to reduce heat and stop the WG being blown open by a big spike.

At the top end the WG will be nailled shut and the little ko4 will be giving everything it possibly can. There's no other way to get 300bhp+ numbers from a stock k04-023
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but what's it holding at the top end though? I can't comprehend how a K04 at even 21PSI through the range is putting any more strain on any single component other than the turbo itself than a large turbo would be at boost.
 
16Klappe said:
Would you say that your B5 TIP creates more power whist putting the turbo under less strain? That's something I've never quite understood but presumed as the case.

Not looking for a fight, genuine interest on your opinion of flow vs power vs reliability. Reason I ask is you just said "something running at its max is going to be more stressed, as are components around it, than something bigger but working less hard"

But I'm not sure if you mean a bigger turbo, or the components in general. Because by all accounts the turbo isn't running at it's maximum, so I'm presuming you mean the surrounding components in their entirety? But Westy has your own B5 TIP, he has a Relentless manifold, he has WMI, a beefy FMIC and I'm pretty sure he has rods doesn't he? What else can there be that isn't up to 300bhp?

From what I can gather, the reason Westy/all the other high power K04 setups that are coming out of Niki's are making the power they do is due to the flow and boost characteristics. Surely 21PSI from a K04 is well within it's safe operating parameters? I've always presumed it would be exerting the same strains on the components as a GT28 (for instance) at 16PSI making the same power?
Click to expand...

k04 is not rated to these levels.. its "just" got over 300bhp, which is an achievement no doubt but there's nothing left in it... It was sub 300bhp and max'd, and cooler damp day helped it break the barrier. This is max'd.

I do mean bigger turbo working less hard.

temperatures is whats kills power and components....... V1 mani does'nt have a reputation to be proud of, so its rapid failure (remember prawns) should be a surprise to anyone.. Also mapped "safe" but the temps on the manifold under duress caused it failure. (and its poor quality)

Yes my B5 TIP has added more power without any more strain... Its made it more "efficient flow", so less losses..
turbos blow well, they are crap suckers

I have already said why the power is where it is and doing what it is... as has niki on his fb posts..
you cannot drive high early boost and expect it to hold power @ top end..
TEMPS will not allow this
 
Alex C said:
i would have thought that with a B5 TIP the turbo would be doing less work for the same boost request putting less strain on the turbo because of reduced frictional losses through the larger gauge TIP
Click to expand...

true, however, this one is being run at it peak.....

for the same "boost" you get more "Flow" from a B5 tip... because its not loosing you intake airflow..

this is not relevant to westies get the max from a k04 mission however..
flow is an enabler of more power for less boost, but the top end is going to be turbo and temp restricted...
 
badger5 said:
k04 is not rated to these levels.. its "just" got over 300bhp, which is an achievement no doubt but there's nothing left in it... It was sub 300bhp and max'd, and cooler damp day helped it break the barrier. This is max'd.

I do mean bigger turbo working less hard.

temperatures is whats kills power and components....... V1 mani does'nt have a reputation to be proud of, so its rapid failure (remember prawns) should be a surprise to anyone.. Also mapped "safe" but the temps on the manifold under duress caused it failure. (and its poor quality)

Yes my B5 TIP has added more power without any more strain... Its made it more "efficient flow", so less losses..
turbos blow well, they are crap suckers

I have already said why the power is where it is and doing what it is... as has niki on his fb posts..
you cannot drive high early boost and expect it to hold power @ top end..
TEMPS will not allow this
Click to expand...

Fair play. All makes sense put that way.

Has nobody coated one of these yet? Would be a great idea, and maybe cheaper than buying two a year.
 
cost of coating > manifold

keeps heat in... local things wont get as grilled, but egt's may in fact increase as the temps kept internal

Notable Atributes:
300bhp thru a 40mm hole into a small a/r turbo hotside (we crave 76mm downpipes, 80mm TIPs and blow all this hot gas thru a 40mm hole!)

typical pressure ratio of inlet to exhaust of no less than 2:1 possibly 2.5:1

its temp management which is the problem.. caused by the limitations of hardware which was sized to do 210/225bhp and now we are taking the pi$$ out of it.. hehe
 
out of interest Bill, do you know the Ar of the ko4 turbine housing?

Is it comparable in terms of numbers to the garrets ie 0.63 or 0.86? or is on a different scale somehow?
 
Prawn said:
out of interest Bill, do you know the Ar of the ko4 turbine housing?

Is it comparable in terms of numbers to the garrets ie 0.63 or 0.86? or is on a different scale somehow?
Click to expand...

off hand I dont know if its a published figure..
maybe dan knows
 
Set off from work and the noise was even worse and power was dreadful. Made it to my folks house, had a quick look around the mani and can't see anything obvious. There's a tiny crack which I'll post up later but the noise wasn't coming from it. Sounds like the noise is coming from the head/flange area.

I'm now about to try and limp home 50 miles. I may be calling out the AA! Wish me luck
 
Prawn said:
you're missing the point totally jardo.....

21psi is a peak figure.

it's what it's holding top end that's pushing it hard.

Peaking 21psi isn't high no, but trying to hold it flat out at 6k+ rpm is.

I have no question that Niki's mapping is brilliant and he's extracted some serious power from westys car, but lets not kid ourselves that is isn't the absolute limit of what it can produce.

Just because it's not producing the highest peak boost figures doesn't mean it isn't flat out.

Boost is limited low down to reduce heat and stop the WG being blown open by a big spike.

At the top end the WG will be nailled shut and the little ko4 will be giving everything it possibly can. There's no other way to get 300bhp+ numbers from a stock k04-023
Click to expand...


Nick, I'm going to make a claim, I don't believe the stock actuator can hold the wastegate shut at redline. In fact I'm sure it's open.. The reason the maps held back at low rpm is to stop the spike boost blowing it open and it never recovering. I original ran a stock actuator on my hybrid and it failed dismally to hold boost . I'd suggest the same on a k04 getting upto 300bhp.
 
if it's any help to you westy, when my manifold cracked, it didn't effect power at all. The crack was over half way round the collector, but I carried on and finished the trackday, and drove home over 100 miles and power wasn't effected at all as it didn't leak enough to change things.

I'd imagine a leak big enough for you to lose loads of power would be the turbo- manifold gasket having blown out.
 
Ok, what happened here?!

I limped from work 3 miles to my parents where I removed the strut brace and charge pipe to have a good look. Nothing obvious so I bolted all back together and started my 50 mile journey home.

8 miles from home I decide to put my foot down a bit and BANG! Car stutters and cuts out. I roll to a stop on a dark B road. Hazards on and pop bonnet. Popped the fecking red hose to the charge pipe where it hadn't been tightened properly. Got it back on and tightened up but as I was under the bonnet I heard a beep from the dash. It was the battery warning light followed by the xenon warning light to say a bulb was out. All the dash and hazards went dim and the car was completely dead and wouldn't turn over.

So I call the AA and an hour later the recovery guy turns up and starts it first time! I had even plugged in VCDS and seen the battery voltage errors. Very strange.

Anyway home now and will check the gaskets tomorrow morning.
 
Gutted for you Neil hope it can be sorted glad you made it home with AA :(
 
im really sorry to hear this mate, hope its nothing to bad to fix, good luck dude

You also have a PM
 
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