Understeer on B9 S4 Avant

[Audi Sport Dood]

Is it me or does even the new S4 still suffer from understeer?
Or perhaps I'm just way to aggressive a driver!?

Seems despite me having a 4 wheel alignment and brand new set of rubber on the front it still tends to understeer

If traction is reduced ie it's wet and I say pull out from a T junction hard, it's pretty damn bad!
Any sharp steering input can induce it.

It comes on sharply but seems to lightly fade away if that makes sense - doesn't snap back or anything.

I even pushed it hard into a sharp bend in the dry today and the same happened.

It's just doesn't seem to perform at all like many other cars I've driven - I can yank the wheel hard in many other cars and they will grip / dig in etc and if anythign it will throw the back end out.

As I say - have had it all aligned - can post results if needs be

What are other peoples honest experiences?

 

[Thundercliffe81]

Is it me or does even the new S4 still suffer from understeer?
Or perhaps I'm just way to aggressive a driver!?

Seems despite me having a 4 wheel alignment and brand new set of rubber on the front it still tends to understeer

If traction is reduced ie it's wet and I say pull out from a T junction hard, it's pretty damn bad!
Any sharp steering input can induce it.

It comes on sharply but seems to lightly fade away if that makes sense - doesn't snap back or anything.

I even pushed it hard into a sharp bend in the dry today and the same happened.

It's just doesn't seem to perform at all like many other cars I've driven - I can yank the wheel hard in many other cars and they will grip / dig in etc and if anythign it will throw the back end out.

As I say - have had it all aligned - can post results if needs be

What are other peoples honest experiences?

We were literally just talking about this in the B9 RS4 vs the rest thread...

You got the sports diff? I do and have had no issues at all. Great platform and new chassis and I've got winters on too. Turn-in is great and mid corner adjust is too. Apply more power mid corner and the rear just snaps round and shoots you out.

My B8.5 S4 did understeer if i brought too much speed into a corner but I didn't have sports diff


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[Riko0073]

Not really noticed it on mine but wouldn’t say I really push it beyond ‘making fast progress’ around the B roads and bends!

Have you got the sport diff? I opted for on mine and the car feels pretty neutral and centered when pushing on and not experienced any noticeable understeer.

Maybe down to driving styles?

 

[KI6RAN]

Have you got the sports differential? I have only test drove an S4 with the sports diff and I thought there wasn’t much understeer but I was only out on a test drive


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[Daggerit]

Yeah, exactly as said above. I have the sports diff and just applying extra throttle sorts any understeer, it’s actually a bit of a counter intuitive thing to be applying more throttle at that point, but it works!

If you’re hard on the throttle through the bend it just digs and digs to the point that I frightened a friend that drives a tuned Impreza, usually quickly, and made my son cry (I’m not proud about that one...). Haha.

I’ve noticed on the winters you can feel the reduced grip from the summer tyres but still never really had an understeer issue that I can remember at all.


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[Daggerit]

I’m seeing a sports diff theme developing...


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[Thundercliffe81]

and made my son cry (I’m not proud about that one...). Haha.

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[Thundercliffe81]

I’m seeing a sports diff theme developing...


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Uh ohhhhhh. I have worn this t shirt. Just get the turn in right first time and it should be grand. I didn't think the diff was such a big deal but only through not having one and now having one Can i see the advantage. Unless the OP has the diff ? Then I'm not sure.


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[Audi Sport Dood]

We were literally just talking about this in the B9 RS4 vs the rest thread...

You got the sports diff? I do and have had no issues at all. Great platform and new chassis and I've got winters on too. Turn-in is great and mid corner adjust is too. Apply more power mid corner and the rear just snaps round and shoots you out.

My B8.5 S4 did understeer if i brought too much speed into a corner but I didn't have sports diff


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yerr have the sports diff and to be fair if it's a higher speed corner, yes exactly as you said; I can add more power mid corner and it does pleasantly drift out

No snappy action as such yet but I do 'try' to drive it a bit more sensibly than all previous cars - more powerful 89 Fox Mustang with the 'scary'1 diff (similar to sports diff; less effective, slower, erratic, very little control just silly really!)

Anyway, apart from earlier today it's all been low speed when I've yanked the wheel rather aggressively OR as I say, pulled out too fast taking a 90 deg turn

Still - I don't like it and want it gone!

 

[Daggerit]

Yeah, I never pushed the non-sports diff demo car hard enough around bends to compare it to be honest. I pushed the one with it a bit harder and it just kept hanging on, maybe there’s a reason I drove one harder than the other though? Could be I just felt more confident in the one with the diff?


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[Thundercliffe81]

yerr have the sports diff and to be fair if it's a higher speed corner, yes exactly as you said; I can add more power mid corner and it does pleasantly drift out

No snappy action as such yet but I do 'try' to drive it a bit more sensibly than all previous cars - more powerful 89 Fox Mustang with the 'scary'1 diff (similar to sports diff; less effective, slower, erratic, very little control just silly really!)

Anyway, apart from earlier today it's all been low speed when I've yanked the wheel rather aggressively OR as I say, pulled out too fast taking a 90 deg turn

Still - I don't like it and want it gone!

Out of my work is a 90 degree junction and several times, under high throttle, the back has stepped out. Then, obviously the ESP has kicked in and cut the power. Trying to think of a scenario I can duplicate what you're doing and get back to you.


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[Thundercliffe81]

Only time it's ever understeered was just after I got it. I'm snow, on brand new summer Hankooks and I was utterly petrified Barely got up to 4mph. But that's a one off.

Come to think of it, was twice. First few months in. Greasy rain on a round about. Took it exact same as I always did in the B8.5 and it did push out quite a lot. I never was a fan of them Hankooks mind you. Unless it was bone dry (and they were awesome) I never felt settled with them.


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[Audi Sport Dood]

made my son cry (I’m not proud about that one...). Haha

Uh ohhhhhh. I have worn this t shirt. Just get the turn in right first time and it should be grand. I didn't think the diff was such a big deal but only through not having one and now having one Can i see the advantage. Unless the OP has the diff ? Then I'm not sure.


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yerr good point on turn in... maybe that does need a bit of refining...
mind you earlier wasn't aggressive -it was just fast and again a right hand bend - wasn't carrying braking through the bend or anything daft though

Hrmmm. perhaps now I should mention that I've been black flagged from two track days to date...

I can drive... really.. i think?!??

 

[Thundercliffe81]

yerr good point on turn in... maybe that does need a bit of refining...
mind you earlier wasn't aggressive -it was just fast and again a right hand bend - wasn't carrying braking through the bend or anything daft though

Hrmmm. perhaps now I should mention that I've been black flagged from two track days to date...

I can drive... really.. i think?!??

Hahaha. Maybe. Just maybe an issue? What tyres? Does the front pull out or push out? On the Hankooks, it pushed out that one time then I just adjusted my driving. But they never felt sorted them things.

With these Nokian winters, it's ****** brilliant.


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[Audi Sport Dood]

Out of my work is a 90 degree junction and several times, under high throttle, the back has stepped out. Then, obviously the ESP has kicked in and cut the power. Trying to think of a scenario I can duplicate what you're doing and get back to you.


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hmm thats interesting - pulling out hard I've never had the back end out
Perhaps the only way to try and duplicate it is to take it to the extremes and just yank the wheel and see if it does
Not at high speed mind - I've never actually tried that - maybe I need a big open space to get to the bottom of this!

let me know how you get on though
just please don't come back to me saying you've plowed through a lamp post of anything!!

cheers

 

[Daggerit]

Hrmmm. perhaps now I should mention that I've been black flagged from two track days to date...

Maybe just need to work on your finesse?

And I guess it depends on what you were black flagged for?


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[Audi Sport Dood]

Hahaha. Maybe. Just maybe an issue? What tyres? Does the front pull out or push out? On the Hankooks, it pushed out that one time then I just adjusted my driving. But they never felt sorted them things.

With these Nokian winters, it's ****** brilliant.


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well it came with conti sport 6's

I've actually got some michelins on the front now (I know it's best to match them all but there's plenty of tread on the rears and Audi said it's no bother ie stick what you like on it - and the cost of these 19" tyres - jeez!!)

how do you mean push or pull?

 

[Daggerit]

Out of my work is a 90 degree junction and several times, under high throttle, the back has stepped out. Then, obviously the ESP has kicked in and cut the power. Trying to think of a scenario I can duplicate what you're doing and get back to you.


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Snap. Happens to me joining the dual carriageway from work regularly. Not brave enough to turn traction control off and play so just leave it on and keep my foot planted. Haha


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[Audi Sport Dood]

Maybe just need to work on your finesse?

And I guess it depends on what you were black flagged for?


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some strange rule of no undertaking the one time... silly experience day
the other time I was supposedly just too dangerous on the track
yerr I was pretty miffed at that - mind you I cheered up after when it turned out I was 4 seconds faster than anyone else

but yes, finesse - definitely something that needs a bit of work!!

 

[Daggerit]

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[Thundercliffe81]

hmm thats interesting - pulling out hard I've never had the back end out
Perhaps the only way to try and duplicate it is to take it to the extremes and just yank the wheel and see if it does
Not at high speed mind - I've never actually tried that - maybe I need a big open space to get to the bottom of this!

let me know how you get on though
just please don't come back to me saying you've plowed through a lamp post of anything!!

cheers

Well that's it now. I'll pass your culpability to my insurance Kidding. On 90 degree right turn junctions, I give it a bit of gas to get out while turning and I'd say mid way into the turn, I boot it and the back end snaps in and pulls the car round. The grip is immense. Like Daggerit said, it does feel counter intuitive but it works.

If there's quite a bit of steering lock to the right and you mash the gas, then yeah...the rear does step out and traction control cuts the power. Depending on wet roads, this all changes etc.


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[Thundercliffe81]

Snap. Happens to me joining the dual carriageway from work regularly. Not brave enough to turn traction control off and play so just leave it on and keep my foot planted. Haha


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Amen. If I wanted a tail happy car, I'd have bought a 340i.


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[Thundercliffe81]

well it came with conti sport 6's

I've actually got some michelins on the front now (I know it's best to match them all but there's plenty of tread on the rears and Audi said it's no bother ie stick what you like on it - and the cost of these 19" tyres - jeez!!)

how do you mean push or pull?

In my B8.5, the understeer felt like it was pulling the car out. On this with the Hankooks that one time, it was just skidding out wide. Hard to describe. I think it's a driving issue haha. Try backing off. I'm just chatting s*** now, I'm no Lewis Hamilton.


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[Nickfrog]

A bit of confusion between traction and lateral grip characteristics. All road cars tend to have an inherent balance towards the front end having less lat grip then the rear on turn-in, ie understeer. This can either be corrected by braking traction past the apex or probably a better bet turning in on the brakes first. I wouldn't suggest either on the open road though as probably not the place.

 

[Audi Sport Dood]

A bit of confusion between traction and lateral grip characteristics. All road cars tend to have an inherent balance towards the front end having less lat grip then the rear on turn-in, ie understeer. This can either be corrected by braking traction past the apex or probably a better bet turning in on the brakes first. I wouldn't suggest either on the open road though as probably not the place.

hrmmm - ok - this sounds more scientific - shall have a play around soon!

 

[SMI77]

If you’re hard on the throttle through the bend it just digs and digs to the point that I frightened a friend that drives a tuned Impreza, usually quickly, and made my son cry (I’m not proud about that one...). Haha.

I am certainly no expert, but really am surprised your quick Impreza friend was frightened. Is his an Impreza or WRX? Locally there is a short flat dirt track where one can hire a rally WRX for 6 laps, with an instructor as a passenger. Done this a few times when we first bought our last Subie, to learn to use the all-wheel-drive. Yep!! it is hard relearning but imperative to 'press on' to make it dig, dig, otherwise your in the boonies. I thought Audis were supposed to be far superior, but?????

 

[TMP-Audi]

Now, my experience at low lift off speeds are the opposite....you can actually get the back end out on these B9 Quattros!
When I went to fill up with Super, the pump was out of order - so had to go out and back in. I always love the exit of this petrol station, as its basically an empty, retail park, wide two lane T junction
So ESP in sport mode, and I fully floor it in S1. To be honest, I was expecting a little front wheel slip but nothing prepared me for the car overcooking the oversteer at what felt like a 45 degree angle

. lifted off and staighted it up - all very messy and another **** me moment.

Tried again after the fill up, and caught it and had a lovely rear slide and power out. Wow great, I love this car I shouted!
Of course Turbo’s help break the traction but the rear bias is a surprise!

Not pushed it at higher speeds yet.

 

[Daggerit]

I am certainly no expert, but really am surprised your quick Impreza friend was frightened. Is his an Impreza or WRX? Locally there is a short flat dirt track where one can hire a rally WRX for 6 laps, with an instructor as a passenger. Done this a few times when we first bought our last Subie, to learn to use the all-wheel-drive. Yep!! it is hard relearning but imperative to 'press on' to make it dig, dig, otherwise your in the boonies. I thought Audis were supposed to be far superior, but?????

It's some special edition one I think? Called a Type 20 or something (below)? It was coming off a roundabout and then straight into a corner so I think that it was just the acceleration and grip going round the corner at the same time that did it. Haha. High speed corners I imagine that he'd have me no worries because the S4 is lugging round a few extra kg's.

 

[Daggerit]

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[Thundercliffe81]

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[cuke2u]

Does nothing for me...

 

[Daggerit]

I don't know, I kinda like the boy racer look if the mood strikes me.

It is really fun to drive as it's similar power (less torque) as the S4 but you really need to keep it on the boil as the turbo hits max boost up at 3-4k revs. It's certainly fun to do and handles well as it's been nicely setup on coilovers.

Too much for me as a daily though. Harsh ride, drone and ridiculously bad fuel economy.

 

[KI6RAN]

I used to have a Subaru Forrester Turbo and it had the worst fuel economy on any car I have ever driven! Plus parts was a fortune the only good thing I liked about it was it was great driving in snow haha


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[SMI77]

Does nothing for me...

Fine, then I will use your quota ....WOW & WOW!!!
Beautiful, has it ever been driven? harshness due to narrow + short w/base. Yeah, not really a daily driver.
Ours was a modded Liberty (Legacy), consumption could be OK, but completely depended on the factor at the time.
Have a photo but its 3.8mb, too big for Audi-Sport.net apparently & too technical for me.
Will this do? It might intrigue 'cuke2u'.

 

[cuke2u]

I don't know, I kinda like the boy racer look if the mood strikes me.

It is really fun to drive as it's similar power (less torque) as the S4 but you really need to keep it on the boil as the turbo hits max boost up at 3-4k revs. It's certainly fun to do and handles well as it's been nicely setup on coilovers.

Too much for me as a daily though. Harsh ride, drone and ridiculously bad fuel economy.

Yup, I prefer speed with refinement and a car that doesn't shout about it. One of my friends had a sti estate back in 1997, he took me up to holme moss from holmfirth in it one wet evening. Whilst the car was impressive on that road I wouldn't want one to be a daily drive, although there are plenty of 'scooby' chavs out there who would disagree.
Was always good to see Colin wringing the neck of one in wrc though that's probably another debate...

 

[Daggerit]

Fine, then I will use your quota ....WOW & WOW!!!
Beautiful, has it ever been driven? harshness due to narrow + short w/base. Yeah, not really a daily driver.
Ours was a modded Liberty (Legacy), consumption could be OK, but completely depended on the factor at the time.
Have a photo but its 3.8mb, too big for Audi-Sport.net apparently & too technical for me.
Will this do? It might intrigue 'cuke2u'.

It's been driven a lot! I think it has about 60 or 70k miles on the clock... It looks good in that photo but has the usual stone chipping round the front and some rust in one of the arches, none of which is unusual for a car it's age I wouldn't have said.

Looks like your Liberty took a bit of a beating! Hope everyone was alright afterwards but at least the passenger section looks in one piece.

 

[cuke2u]

Fine, then I will use your quota ....WOW & WOW!!!
Beautiful, has it ever been driven? harshness due to narrow + short w/base. Yeah, not really a daily driver.
Ours was a modded Liberty (Legacy), consumption could be OK, but completely depended on the factor at the time.
Have a photo but its 3.8mb, too big for Audi-Sport.net apparently & too technical for me.
Will this do? It might intrigue 'cuke2u'.


View attachment 148399

I believe you can hit nearly 600ps in a properly tuned one throwing some good money at it. Some in pistonheads here for sale https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/subaru/impreza-sti

 

[Happy Grumpz]

I thought this thread was about under steer on B9 S4 Avants?

 

[cuke2u]

Yeah, apologies, coming across as slightly hypocritical there....

 

[Happy Grumpz]

Quite.