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Turns out my car is 'Chipped' - not good.

Evotion May 22, 2018

  1. Evotion

    Evotion The Greed For Speed Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Well, well.

    I drive a lot of supercars and I always thought that my RS3 was 'bloody' fast. Faster than it should be.

    Anyhoo.. The car lost all decent drive when I was out and about. It would judder under acceleration and I had to keep it to 30MPH or so until I got to the Audi garage which was not far (so I risked it).

    It was like it was stuck in 12th gear! or the turbo had gone, or a major fueling issue.

    So the service guys calls me:
    Him: "Have you had the car chipped?"
    Me: "No, why?"
    Him: The ECU has been modified for performance.
    Me: "You're kidding? Then again, the car always did feel ballistically fast"

    Turns out they can't do mcuh about it. It is obviously not under any warranty but he is sure that it just the ECU that is the issue and not an engine issue per se.
    He says that Audi cannot touch it - is that right?
    Says I have to find out WHERE the previous owner got it 'chipped' and then get that company to bring their laptop to the car and 'delete' the mod? Until then the car is in limbo at the garage.

    I have not heard back from the Garage that I bought the car from. They, of course, denied any knowledge that it was chipped but, in this case, I do believe them as you can't 'see' that sort of thing.

    If the previous owner denies it then I am likely a bit buggered. I suspect there is a solution but might be painful.

    Funnily enough, it is two weeks short of it's 3 year warranty end and I was going to sell it.
     
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  3. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    A chipped car wont just mysteriously stop working. You need to scan the fault codes, I suspect you're either experiencing major misfiring issues (flickering engine warning light, stuttering performance) or you have popped a boost hose off and that's why the car is juddering but still working under light acceleration.

    I'd be more inclined to suggest its the latter and one of the boost hoses has popped off or worked its way loose. Check the intercooler connections to and from the intercooler as these are the likely culprits.

    Certainly a fault code would help.

    Not sure why the dealer can't just carry out a factory reset of the ECU to get it back to the standard map either.
     
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  4. DW81

    DW81 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe phone up any Audi main/popular tuners and give them your car reg to see if it’s loogrd on there database, otherwise you are stumped I’m afraid mate which is really shitty to be fair to you.
     
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  5. Evotion

    Evotion The Greed For Speed Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Audi RS3 S tronic

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    That is exactly what i asked him. I thought they could simply 'reset' it.
     
  6. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member Team Nardo Audi RS4

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    Get @DJAlix to scan it for you if Audi being unhelpful?

    TX.
     
  7. T-800

    T-800 Well-Known Member Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group VCDS Map User Audi RS3 quattro S tronic Sportback MQB Platform

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    If Audi have connected it up to the mothership there will already be a flag against it...........
     
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  8. Evotion

    Evotion The Greed For Speed Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Update: Been without use of the car for almost 3 weeks now.

    Audi dealer: Can't do anything apart from a new ECU and the labour = £1300.00

    Sports Car dealer that sold me the car: They can't get hold of the seller who sold it to them modified despite signing disclaimer that asked about this as they would not knowingly buy a modified car. They said his number no longer works. I will ask them for the last known address and see where that gets me. I will also fill in the V888 form at DVLA though I can't see that helping unless the owner left a mobile phone number on there or any other new information, etc.

    Me: I will contact the dealer for at least the address details of the last owner and see what emapping companies are within an hour drive to check if was them that did the work.
    I spoke to another specialist tuner near me that has offered to see if they can do something. Problem is that I will have to get the car to them and that is more cost for what might be a waste of time.

    I am trying to get Audi to locate a time stamp for when the mod was carried out. I dont know if they can even find this information. If I cannt get this then i cannot reasonably prove that it was not me that modified the car so I wouldnot be able to hold the selling dealer responsible.

    I might have to stump up the £1300.00 just to get the car on the road and go from there. :(

    By the way, anybody on here know who the owner might be. It is a Mythos black with number plate starting SB15 ...
    All I need is the company that did the mod and I can get them to remove it.

    Thanks.
     
  9. Spaceman_RS3

    Spaceman_RS3 Well-Known Member Team Ibis Team Panther Audi RS3 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Previous owners address not on the v5 bid send registered letter asking for re map details as you want to get it tweaked?
     
  10. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why you would go anywhere near Audi with the car out of warranty.

    Why dont you take it to an Audi specialist such as MRC and get them to retune the car for you? They do this all the time. Retune would cost you £650-750 and you'll have a great performing car a few hours later. They'll also probably have the standard maps they can put back in if you want it back to stock.

    £1300 and Audi is your very last option and not one worth considering in my opinion.

    I'm intrigued as to why the car is not driveable though? It makes no sense, your symptoms to me sound like a boost hose has popped off, 2 min fix. If you're no good with cars, have you had a mechanic check it out? Has it even been hooked up to a fault code scanner?
     
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  11. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    Audi wont help you without a fee, trawling through ECU logs costs man hours.

    Also, with a car out of warranty, is the selling garage under any obligation to help? It's not as if you are affected by a lost warranty? Is a non Audi car dealer expected to know the ECU modification status? Of every car on their 2nd hand forecourt?

    Sorry, but looks like you've wasted 3 weeks chasing your tail, this should have been resolved after a few hours by 1) An inspection of the boost hoses and general visual inspection of the engine. 2) Buying a fault code reader from halfords, or finding someone with VCDS, 3) Picking up the phone to someome like MRC tuning. It beats pi**ing around looking for mysterious owners and expecting Audi to carry out forensic diagnostics of your ECU.

    Sorry to be blunt, but looks like you have your head in the sand.
     
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  13. msdmjb

    msdmjb Well-Known Member

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    This is an interesting one (not for you where I guess it is an absolute ar$e).
    If the sports car dealer you bought it from has a disclaimer/admitted they sold it thinking it was OE then unfortunately for them your issue is with them and not the previous owner. Your beef isn't with the previous owner as he wasn't involved in your purchase, you bought a car from a dealer so you deal with the dealer. If the dealer mis-sold you the car (i.e. it was not as advertised/specified etc) then I would presume it is their responsibility to put you right and then chase the previous owner for any costs they have incurred. There could have been all sorts of legal implications out of this scenario e.g. insurance, lack of warranty etc The dealer could have got you in a load of trouble.

    Anyhoo, as said earlier what kind of map would effectively lock the ecu like this.........it is just a chip holding static mappings which are incredibly reliable so in theory wipe it and reload your preferred be it standard or enhanced. Worst case get someone with a trailer to take the car somewhere for a retune, i wouldn't be going down the new ECU route just yet. You might even be able to take the ecu out and get a safe tune applied to it before putting it back in your car and then updating it??

    Does raise issues going forwards about buying cars inside of standard warranty but outside of franchised dealers IF you want to buy OE spec.

    Good luck, sounds a bad situation to be in.
     
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  14. Evotion

    Evotion The Greed For Speed Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Audi RS3 S tronic

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    The car is actually still in warranty for another week or so BUT, of course, now that they know the car is remapped surely the warranty is voided not matter what the actual issue might be?
    I hope Audi actually looked at the obvious issues, but I have reminded them to double check! :)

    Well, I am trying that route again. The first couple of tuners called said they couldn't help as they would also need to know the mod that is in there. The third one I called said they wil take a look at it but no promises.
    It does surprise me, I did think it would be just a simple plug in and sort it out job.

    I want a standard car so it would have to be a tuner who can achieve this reverse engineering.
     
  15. Evotion

    Evotion The Greed For Speed Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Yes, they have already told me that they sold the car to me believing it was standard as the person that they bought it off did sign a form saying that it was NOT modified. I have been told that I need to prove, via a date stamp of the software being modded, that it was not me who ordered the remap. If the remap is proven to have been done with the one previous owner then i would expect me to be able to push this on to the Dealer who would then have to push back on the original seller. So, yes, my beef would be with the dealer but the Audi Dealer with my car cannot find such 'proof' as yet.

    My next step is to pass the car on to a reputable specialist who is not far from me and see what they come up with.
    Being at Audi is currently a waste of time.
     
  16. Hal Adams

    Hal Adams Active Member Team Nardo VCDS Map User Audi RS3 Black Edition

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    Sorry for your issue.

    Leo-RS' question though has not been answered - has anyone actually looked for a mechanical source of the problem?
     
  17. Evotion

    Evotion The Greed For Speed Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Well, I have asked the question and awaiting confirmation. It is hard to believe that I when I took it in with a buggered up drive that they didnt check the obvious. It might well be that there is a mechanical problem but they plugged the car in, as standard procedure, noticed it was remapped and left it at that. I'd like to think they are not that incompetant but I will certainly update the thread id indeed it turns out to be the case!
     
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  18. q5man

    q5man Q5 & JCW fan Team Mythos Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    hmm, they probably are (that incompetent). The problem with Audi dealers, and most other Manufacturers for that matter, it is often junior staff that just plug in to computer, and then computer says no...in this case, car is chipped. They probably stopped right there, and haven't even done the basic visual inspection as suggested. A mate of mine many years ago, qualified as a VW mechanic, and then barely worked on a car again, was made "supervisor", so left and went to specialist VW tuner, which is where most decent mechanics end up. Realise I am generalising, as I am sure this isn't always the case everywhere :whistle2:
     
  19. Hal Adams

    Hal Adams Active Member Team Nardo VCDS Map User Audi RS3 Black Edition

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    I am afraid they are incompetent! I am all for hooking up to the machine as first procedure, but this is where the trouble starts - immediately they see an anomally, that is it, they will not go any further - in fact they do not have the intelligence to go further as they rely on the machine to tell them what to do.

    I fear that as cars become more computerised and there are less people such as Leo-RS who know what to do without a machine, motoring is going to become exponentially more expensive...

    Do post the results of the specialist's findings...

    (sorry for repetition - posted same time as above! But it does prove what we all know...:yes:)
     
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  20. Spinstorm

    Spinstorm Well-Known Member

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    Dealers are useless - I would agree take it to a specialist.

    You could call up and explain the issue and then get it from dealer right to specialist. I know its inconvenient but if someone can fix that for half what the dealer quoted you its worth the hassle in my opinion.
     
  21. deanshaw24

    deanshaw24 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    The dealer can 100% map your Ecu back to factory settings, it’s called SVM, software version management, it automatically scans all modules and applys updates to anything that needs them when you plug it in. You can update the engine Ecu to the latest software or change it back to normal, which would remove the map.

    Unless of course Odis can’t talk to the Ecu which Doesn’t sound like the case..?
     
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  22. Powerenhancer

    Powerenhancer Member

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    Not always. Sometimes the system will refuse to install a new or existing SW version if it doesn't recognise the existing SW. I had this issue on a B8 S4. MRC installed a different SW version on the TCU in an attempt to correct some slippage and other issues. This worked out OK but created different issues as the same time. AUDI then released their own update but the system wouldn't permit the Master Tech to change the SW due to an anomaly with the existing SW. The only way was to have MRC change it back to stock first.
     
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  23. Flowrider99

    Flowrider99 Active Member Audi S5

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    Do you have breakdown insurance? If so call them out! Worst case scenario is they can't fix it and will transport the car to a garage of your choosing.
     
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  24. T-800

    T-800 Well-Known Member Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group VCDS Map User Audi RS3 quattro S tronic Sportback MQB Platform

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    ^^^^^^^^this 100% Odis will say ECU is not valid for the vehicle.
     
  25. Evotion

    Evotion The Greed For Speed Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Update:

    The Audi dealer would replace the ECU and including labour would be £1350.00

    I took it to the local specialist 15 minutes away.
    He called me within an hour and said that it was the 3rd Cylinder Fuel Injector which actually caused the car issue (Audi never even mentioned this!! and would have added it on to the £1350 and it's not cheap).

    The new guys would replace the injector and either give me a new Stage 1 remap or a standard map, and all in , well less than 1k!!
    I have opted for the standard map so I can sell the car on. Great car, will miss it.

    I will try and claim the cost from the original selling garage anyway, of course.
     
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  26. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther Audi RS3 TTRS

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    Get the stage 1 map!
     
  27. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Well-Known Member Team Racing Blue Mica Audi RS3 quattro Sportback

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    Get the Stage 1. The damage is done with the TD1 flag, it is on there for the life of the ECU and probably against the VIN with any Audi dealer. You have to tell anybody you sell it to that it’s been mapped otherwise you will also be lying to any prospective owner, going to standard map won’t undo the damage done.
     
  28. Evotion

    Evotion The Greed For Speed Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Well I did enjoy the Stage 1 unwittingly but I will revert it back to standard.

    I will tell the buyers the truth, that I was mistaking sold it and corrected it.
    Yes, the car will show up as having been modified at some point but it will surely be easier to sell it as a non, unmodified car.

    It saves a few hundred quid as well.
     
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  29. DW81

    DW81 Well-Known Member

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    Couldn’t agree more mate if you going to sell it why bother with a stage 1, at least your giving the potential new owner the heads up on its previous mapping.
     
  30. Hal Adams

    Hal Adams Active Member Team Nardo VCDS Map User Audi RS3 Black Edition

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    Glad you have it diagnosed at least.

    As your new chap said, the dealer would have installed the new ECU and still have the problem, and I bet it would be a few other things before they got to the injector.

    Something has to be done about the dealers. Audis are not cheap cars but one realises that, like anything mechanical, something will go wrong one day, but to then suffer an army of semi-literate kids loose on the car is an insult.

    If you have the inclination left in you, I'd really like you to go back to that dealer with your car fixed and shove the invoice up where it hurts..:whip:
     
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  31. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    What’s the point in letting a new owner know of a TD1 flag when the car is out of warranty? TD1 is completely irrelevant after 36 months.

    Fuel injector should have caused engine misfires (flickering engine light, rather than a static one)

    Glad you’ve identified the issue though. If you’re getting rid of the car, yes, I’d agree with you, get it put back to standard.
     
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  32. Behind The Bins

    Behind The Bins Active Member

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    Well done for sorting, surely 'standard' is the tuning companies' version of code. So technically its not standard although bhp/torque etc would be similar.

    If declaring on sale its remapped, any future owner would have to declare mods to insurance company. Only my opinion but if you are selling a modified car why not declare a modest remap. Plenty of people have remaps, how many declare this at point of sale might raise a few eyebrows but maybe an honest sale with a reputable stage 1 could attract a buyer.

    Good luck whatever you decide
     
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  34. wab172uk

    wab172uk Well-Known Member

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    Maybe because some people have morals. The OP has been stung with a modified car, when he thought he was buying standard. It goes back to earlier threads, where people are happy to modify a car, put it back to standard before selling, and then let the next owner pay the costs for anything going wrong down the line.

    Modify the car all you want, it's your car, but have the morals to let the next owner know its been modified, and let them choose to take the risk or not. While most on here go through cars every 2-3 years buying new (or PCP), they don't encounter the issues caused by a modified a car years down the line. The poor guy who buys the (put back to standard to sell) car has the extra costs of paying for parts / labour which probably wouldn't have occurred if the car had been standard all along.
     
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  35. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    That's fair enough but with high value cars in this price range, the majority will go back to a dealership in PX for something else meaning you will never meet the next owner. It's up to the dealership then to act as the middle man and how many dealership ads have you ever seen with "previously modified, now standard" ?

    In addition to that, the chap above never modified the car, the previous owner did and it's unknown so it's even more watered down. My point was about the meaningless TD1 flag, after 36 months, its irrelevant.

    You do take a significant risk buying a performance car older than 36 months these days, it really is buyer beware. Even a standard car may have been hammered and launched 200+ times and something breaks after 42 months leaving the next owner in a world of sh*t. I guess the only real way to protect yourself is by always having a car within its manufacturers warranty period.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  36. q5man

    q5man Q5 & JCW fan Team Mythos Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    That is too true, they are performance cars for a reason, so it is always buyer beware, as not only costly to repair, but “generally” more likely to have been driven more enthusiastically shall we say than “normal” cars. Such a minefield which is why I like to buy new...not that I have a “performance car”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  37. wab172uk

    wab172uk Well-Known Member

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    And that's my point. Mod it, then put it back to standard, PX it. Chances are the dealership won't physical check the car before you hand it back to them and drive off in your new car. Would you openly say to a dealer, by the way, I've had a stage 2 remap on it, coil-overs, de-cat etc, and just put it all back to standard last weekend? No. Why? Because it would drastically effect the trade-in price.

    So what you're doing is effectively saying any problems with the car after I've PX'd it is down to the dealer and the next owner to argue over it. Chances are the poor guy who buys it off the dealer will either end up paying for it, or end up fighting the dealer for weeks / months over warranty and who pays for it.

    `Not my problem now` is unfortunately the society we live in today.

    There was a guy either earlier this year, or last year who had this exact issue with his second hand S3. Something went wrong with it, took it back to the Audi dealer, who then said TD1 modified. Sorry, 12 month warranty void. Guy hadn't modified it, but Audi refused to honour the warranty. Can't remember the outcome, but I do know it caused him all sorts of problems, main one being no car till it was all sorted out.

    Think different cars attract different buyers / sellers. Back when I owned a Subaru, sellers would openly sell there cars modified, listing all mods etc. People then bought with there eyes open. I've noticed with Audi, people are more likely to but back to standard and keep quiet. Maybe that just due to PCP deals etc, and changing cars every 2-3 years?
     
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  38. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member Team Nardo Audi RS4

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    When I sold the 3 every single person asked if it was modified or not and I simply trotted off all the mods. No like mods don't buy, if you do then a bargain surely as sale price won't cover that cost.

    TX.

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  39. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther Audi RS3 TTRS

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    That's very honourable. Although you didn't fiddle with your engine. I think the big one people are concerned about is where the wick has been turned up on the turbo.
     
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  40. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Well-Known Member Team Racing Blue Mica Audi RS3 quattro Sportback

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    For those who want to buy the extended one?
     
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  41. T-800

    T-800 Well-Known Member Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group VCDS Map User Audi RS3 quattro S tronic Sportback MQB Platform

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    What makes you think Audi will take the TD1 flag off the cars history though ?

    It won't be a given.

    So makes extending a non existent warranty pointless......
     
  42. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    Just purchase the sticker .

    [​IMG]
     
  43. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member Team Nardo Audi RS4

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    @T-800 Think AN means if you map it back and don't tell future owner, then they struggle to get warranty extended.

    TX.

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