TUNING BOX COMPARISON – DTUK FSR+ vs MTM M-Cantronic – S3 8V model. A USERS VIEW.

[jungle650]

TUNING BOX COMPARISON – DTUK FSR+ vs MTM M-Cantronic – S3 8V model. A USERS VIEW.

There has been a lot of talk on the forum concerning tuning of the S3 8V model and the pros and cons etc. As part of that process many people consider either going down the re-map route or going down the Tuning box route. There are pros and cons to both and this thread is not here to discuss those, these been covered many times already in plenty of other threads, so please lets avoid that debate here.

But as a first step into the tuning world many people dip their toes in with a tuning box. The main reason for this is that the boxes can be easily removed putting the car back to stock / standard with little to no immediate trace of a tune and potentially reducing the risk of a TD1 flag. The other benefit is that these boxes generally offer pretty good performance gains and can be very comparable (certainly on paper) to a true Stage 1 remap and of course they hold a second hand/used value when removed from the cars, remaps do not.

Based on forum threads, the most common tuning box solutions people consider are those from DTUK and MTM. Both have achieved very good results with the 2 litre VW/Audi group engine. There are of course other options. JB1 for example is another plug in solution and is customizable but it’s apparently tricky to fit. There are also items from companies such as ABT, which is more of a piggy back solution and connects via the Can bus similar to the MTM but has a new replacement ECU. So solutions range from those with piggy back ECU’s like ABT and in-line plug in tuning boxes such as DTUK which connect to various sensors across the engine bay. Prices vary across the solutions with DTUK at the lower end of the spectrum and MTM / ABT at the higher end. Interesting the MTM solution probably sits somewhere in the middle / higher end, both from a price range and to some extent how it works. The MTM M-Cantronic connects with the cars Can Bus wiring loom covering a wide range of sensors / parameters and applies changes on the fly. Price wise it’s probably closer to the ABT offering at the premium end of the price range, compared to the DTUK offering which is approx a 3rd of the MTM cost. A significant difference.

As some will know, I recently found myself in a fairly unique position in that I have tried both the DTUK and the MTM tuning solutions on the same car. Therefore I thought I would put some words down to describe as best as I can, what I feel the differences are so that future readers / owners can potentially make a more informed decision if trying to choose between these 2 particular solutions.

This thread is to document what I feel are the differences in hopefully an unbiased and honest post. I have been helped by another forum member to ensure it wasn’t just my thoughts and to see if we could replicate things on different cars. If you can’t be bothered to read any further, the simple answer is that both boxed solutions are pretty good and you are unlikely to be disappointed if you went down either route. Quite how they get there, what they feel like etc is very different, so read on if you want more….

Before we go any further, I am not affiliated with either company, nor any rival. There were no timed Vbox / Dyno runs or such data completed. Performance numbers quoted are taken directly from manufactures websites at time of writing. This thread is just from a normal user’s point of view, how easy the boxes are to fit/remove, live with day to day and how I felt they changed the car and what they feel like from the seat of your pants or butt dyno as some like to call it.


FIRST SOME BASIC DETAILS ABOUT THE TUNING BOXES


DTUK FSR+ box

Performance numbers: DTUK quote the following performance enhancements on their website for the European cars: Note that these are the increased numbers after the 1st release, as new software versions have been developed. Therefore figures have grown from the original offering with the latest numbers reflected below:

Stock: 300 PS Tuned: 375 PS
Stock Torque: 380 NM Tuned: 527 NM

Affiliations: DTUK are affiliated with DTE which are based in Germany.

TUV Approval: Yes

Fitting time: Appx 1 hour if DIY. This requires most people to raise the car to get to the boost pressure sensor which is located at the bottom of the engine. This is what takes the majority of the time to do, especially without a ramp. Physical fitting of the wiring loom etc is closer to 10-15 mins for the average person.

Connections: OEM style connectors for - Boost pressure sensor, Camshaft sensor, Manifold sensor and battery connections.

Removal: You can remove the box in seconds and replace with a blanking plug. ( If for example at the roadside ) However to complete a full removal of all of the wiring loom connections and the physical box etc requires you to get back under the car. So full removal time is same as installation. Around 1 hour DIY.

Audi Sport Fitting Guide: http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/how-to-guide-dtuk-fsr-tuning-box-fitting-installation-guide-–-s3-8v-model.253804/

Software version: DTUK are now on V3 software. - Issued June 2015

Hardware version: DTUK started with the FSR box for petrol engines. Settings could be changed by moving jumpers only. The latest version is the FSR+ box which has buttons (instead of jumpers) to change settings / programs. V3 software should I believe work on both type of boxes.

Warranty: 5 year new for old on FSR+ box.

RRP: £479 – Discounts available online / Audi Sport discount with code ASN80

Classified Prices: These appear to be for sale most months in the classifieds, approx 1 or 2 a month. Boxes seem to range from £220 - £280 dependent upon age, original box / fitting instructions etc and generally include postage within the UK.



MTM M-Cantronic Tuning box

Performance numbers: MTM quote the following performance enhancements on their website for the European cars:

Stock: 300 PS Tuned: 355 PS
Stock Torque: 380 NM Tuned: 450 NM

Affiliations: The MTM box comes with Audi heritage at its heart, with the companies’ owner Roland Meyer having long historical links with Audi, having worked on the original Quattro turbo cars and tweaking Audi products since 1990 under the MTM brand. MTM is based in Germany.

TUV Approval: Yes

Fitting time: Appx 5 minutes DIY. The car does not need to be raised and you do not need any tools to fit the box.

Connections: OEM Bosch wiring loom. Fits directly between the factory ECU and the factory Bosch Can Bus wiring.

Removal: You can remove all of the wiring and box within minutes. This could easily be completed at the roadside. No tools are required.

Audi Sport Fitting Guide: http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/how-to-guide-–-mtm-m-cantronic-tuning-box-fitting-installation-guide-–-s3-8v-model.267054/

Software version: N/A – Box was first seen for the 8V model in 2014.

Hardware version: N/A – Unknown.

Warranty: MTM offer a separate drive train warranty should the factory one not payout. This is purchasable as an extra on used boxes, but comes as standard on new ones purchased at full price for cars up to 3 years old.

RRP: £1430 ( based on current exchange rates and pricing inc of VAT ) I could not find any further discounts, although apparently you can purchase the box from some dealers without the warranty for a minor discount.

Classified Prices: These are harder to price as MTM boxes are very rare. They seem to range from about £650 - £850, dependent upon box, insx and condition etc, including postage within UK.




NEXT PART TO COME ...... 20,000 character limit reached !!!

 

[jungle650]

View attachment 86897

TUNING BOX COMPARISON – DTUK FSR+ vs MTM M-Cantronic – S3 8V model. A USERS VIEW.

There has been a lot of talk on the forum concerning tuning of the S3 8V model and the pros and cons etc. As part of that process many people consider either going down the re-map route or going down the Tuning box route. There are pros and cons to both and this thread is not here to discuss those, these been covered many times already in plenty of other threads, so please lets avoid that debate here.

But as a first step into the tuning world many people dip their toes in with a tuning box. The main reason for this is that the boxes can be easily removed putting the car back to stock / standard with little to no immediate trace of a tune and potentially reducing the risk of a TD1 flag. The other benefit is that these boxes generally offer pretty good performance gains and can be very comparable (certainly on paper) to a true Stage 1 remap and of course they hold a second hand/used value when removed from the cars, remaps do not.

Based on forum threads, the most common tuning box solutions people consider are those from DTUK and MTM. Both have achieved very good results with the 2 litre VW/Audi group engine. There are of course other options. JB1 for example is another plug in solution and is customizable but it’s apparently tricky to fit. There are also items from companies such as ABT, which is more of a piggy back solution and connects via the Can bus similar to the MTM but has a new replacement ECU. So solutions range from those with piggy back ECU’s like ABT and in-line plug in tuning boxes such as DTUK which connect to various sensors across the engine bay. Prices vary across the solutions with DTUK at the lower end of the spectrum and MTM / ABT at the higher end. Interesting the MTM solution probably sits somewhere in the middle / higher end, both from a price range and to some extent how it works. The MTM M-Cantronic connects with the cars Can Bus wiring loom covering a wide range of sensors / parameters and applies changes on the fly. Price wise it’s probably closer to the ABT offering at the premium end of the price range, compared to the DTUK offering which is approx a 3rd of the MTM cost. A significant difference.

As some will know, I recently found myself in a fairly unique position in that I have tried both the DTUK and the MTM tuning solutions on the same car. Therefore I thought I would put some words down to describe as best as I can, what I feel the differences are so that future readers / owners can potentially make a more informed decision if trying to choose between these 2 particular solutions.

This thread is to document what I feel are the differences in hopefully an unbiased and honest post. I have been helped by another forum member to ensure it wasn’t just my thoughts and to see if we could replicate things on different cars. If you can’t be bothered to read any further, the simple answer is that both boxed solutions are pretty good and you are unlikely to be disappointed if you went down either route. Quite how they get there, what they feel like etc is very different, so read on if you want more….

Before we go any further, I am not affiliated with either company, nor any rival. There were no timed Vbox / Dyno runs or such data completed. Performance numbers quoted are taken directly from manufactures websites at time of writing. This thread is just from a normal user’s point of view, how easy the boxes are to fit/remove, live with day to day and how I felt they changed the car and what they feel like from the seat of your pants or butt dyno as some like to call it.


FIRST SOME BASIC DETAILS ABOUT THE TUNING BOXES


DTUK FSR+ box

Performance numbers: DTUK quote the following performance enhancements on their website for the European cars: Note that these are the increased numbers after the 1st release, as new software versions have been developed. Therefore figures have grown from the original offering with the latest numbers reflected below:

Stock: 300 PS Tuned: 375 PS
Stock Torque: 380 NM Tuned: 527 NM

Affiliations: DTUK are affiliated with DTE which are based in Germany.

TUV Approval: Yes

Fitting time: Appx 1 hour if DIY. This requires most people to raise the car to get to the boost pressure sensor which is located at the bottom of the engine. This is what takes the majority of the time to do, especially without a ramp. Physical fitting of the wiring loom etc is closer to 10-15 mins for the average person.

Connections: OEM style connectors for - Boost pressure sensor, Camshaft sensor, Manifold sensor and battery connections.

Removal: You can remove the box in seconds and replace with a blanking plug. ( If for example at the roadside ) However to complete a full removal of all of the wiring loom connections and the physical box etc requires you to get back under the car. So full removal time is same as installation. Around 1 hour DIY.

Audi Sport Fitting Guide: http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/how-to-guide-dtuk-fsr-tuning-box-fitting-installation-guide-–-s3-8v-model.253804/

Software version: DTUK are now on V3 software. - Issued June 2015

Hardware version: DTUK started with the FSR box for petrol engines. Settings could be changed by moving jumpers only. The latest version is the FSR+ box which has buttons (instead of jumpers) to change settings / programs. V3 software should I believe work on both type of boxes.

Warranty: 5 year new for old on FSR+ box.

RRP: £479 – Discounts available online / Audi Sport discount with code ASN80

Classified Prices: These appear to be for sale most months in the classifieds, approx 1 or 2 a month. Boxes seem to range from £220 - £280 dependent upon age, original box / fitting instructions etc and generally include postage within the UK.



MTM M-Cantronic Tuning box

Performance numbers: MTM quote the following performance enhancements on their website for the European cars:

Stock: 300 PS Tuned: 355 PS
Stock Torque: 380 NM Tuned: 450 NM

Affiliations: The MTM box comes with Audi heritage at its heart, with the companies’ owner Roland Meyer having long historical links with Audi, having worked on the original Quattro turbo cars and tweaking Audi products since 1990 under the MTM brand. MTM is based in Germany.

TUV Approval: Yes

Fitting time: Appx 5 minutes DIY. The car does not need to be raised and you do not need any tools to fit the box.

Connections: OEM Bosch wiring loom. Fits directly between the factory ECU and the factory Bosch Can Bus wiring.

Removal: You can remove all of the wiring and box within minutes. This could easily be completed at the roadside. No tools are required.

Audi Sport Fitting Guide: http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/how-to-guide-–-mtm-m-cantronic-tuning-box-fitting-installation-guide-–-s3-8v-model.267054/

Software version: N/A – Box was first seen for the 8V model in 2014.

Hardware version: N/A – Unknown.

Warranty: MTM offer a separate drive train warranty should the factory one not payout. This is purchasable as an extra on used boxes, but comes as standard on new ones purchased at full price for cars up to 3 years old.

RRP: £1430 ( based on current exchange rates and pricing inc of VAT ) I could not find any further discounts, although apparently you can purchase the box from some dealers without the warranty for a minor discount.

Classified Prices: These are harder to price as MTM boxes are very rare. They seem to range from about £650 - £850, dependent upon box, insx and condition etc, including postage within UK.




NEXT PART TO COME ...... 20,000 character limit reached !!!

COMPARISONS:

Now for the comparisons. I lived with the DTUK box for about 6 months, completing the best part of 2500-3000 miles, the MTM has only been a few weeks so is relatively new to me, but I have pulled on that experience. I have also been able to complete back to back and side by side comparisons, not only on my car, but with the assistance of another forum member with a near as possible identical S3 8V model running the DTUK FSR+ box. ( #steve 2015 s3 ). This enabled a true back to back, comparison not just with my thoughts from running both boxes but also 2 different drivers swapping cars and comparing notes. We completed multiple runs around a 4 mile circuit, jumping from one car to the next. This gave us the opportunity to capture our initial thoughts and discuss all of the pros / cons. (Both cars were the same shape, same gearbox - DSG cars, similar mileage approx 10-15k and with similar fuel loads, so were as close as possible for a fair comparison).

DTUK FSR+ Box V3 Software – Back to back.


Program 1+3 settings. – DTUK claims this is the most powerful and widely used program, this is probably the case for manual owners. However Program 3+1 / +2 settings is what I would imagine most DSG owners will end up using. Read below for more details. We used 1+3 settings for performance comparisons and I used 3+2 on my own car for back to back comments.

When you first jump into the car fitted with the DTUK box on its higher settings, you can instantly feel the increase in boost / power, at least I could. From just about 1500 - 2000 revs on full throttle the car pulls very hard, in fact so hard compared to stock, it’s difficult not to walk away without a huge grin on your face. I remember giggling like a school girl after my first initial run on high settings. The car simply feels like rocket boosters have been strapped to it. On lower settings it is still impressive but doesn’t have quite the same punch which pushes you into the back of the seat. In terms of raw power the box gives the impression of a strong and very powerful car, especially lower down the rev range. It completely revolutionizes the car and makes you feel like you have a bigger engine upfront. In some ways the car feels and behaves more like a diesel engine with the box fitted offering a huge slug of torque early in the power / rev range before it flattens off. The character of the car is transformed. Throttle response is almost instant and overtaking manoeuvres are a breeze…. in fact in just about any gear. When you are on full throttle the car just flies.

WOW is your first impression, that’s certainly how mine was.

The DTUK box comes with several maps and settings. With the latest V3 software, Map 1 is the most aggressive with lots of low down surge. Map 2 is a toned down version and Map 3 is the fastest of the original older maps offering consistent power through most of the rev range. From these most DSG owners tend to gravitate towards Map 3 with a +1 or +2 setting or Map 2 on a +1 setting. The reason for this is that other settings can make for the occasional hard gear change. It’s fine for a drag race off the lights or the odd Sunday morning drive but not really useable / comfortable as a daily driver or with passengers in the car. Manual owners seem to either prefer Map 1 or Map 3 and can generally tolerate higher + settings, I guess this is because they have full control over the gear box? The + settings are all individual of course but most seem to settle on +2.

The reason the latest maps 1 and 2 feel more aggressive than previous versions (lots of torque low down with almost instant throttle response) is that they have been engineered to mimic the feel of the DTUK FSR+ box alongside a DTE pedal box. What you find is that the torque is delivered lower down the rev range and quickly builds to a peak before it seems to flatten off, you could say it makes the cars feel more like a fast diesel with a real low down punch rather than a petrol car that likes to rev out to the red line. This has its pros and cons. The cars feel instantly quick off the line and rapid, I mean really rapid, especially in 2nd, 3rd gears etc as traction is no longer an issue.

However drive the DTUK box for a bit longer and especially without being “ on it “ and the box can feel a little on / off with how the performance is delivered. All of the trickery and added high boost / power does have its minor drawbacks, especially on the higher + settings. Gear changes can start to feel notchy, especially at certain points in the rev range ( and especially DSG cars ) throttle response can also be a little snatchy and if you hesitate / lift off mid boost the car can feel very odd, almost as if the electronics / gearbox / drive train can’t quite keep up. Cold engine driving can also sometimes reflect some drivability issues with the car feeling a little jumpy on anything other than very gentle throttle, which remains until the car is fully warmed up. This is exhibited sometimes on a stock / standard car, but it seems to be exaggerated 10 fold by the DTUK box. In these circumstances you know it’s a bolt on unit as it doesn’t feel like it is part of the cars original dynamics, (as mentioned it fundamentally changes them). This is especially true on Programs 1 or 2 in the higher + 3 setting, the power delivery is “on” with anything over mild / part throttle and especially with the higher + settings. Now some people will love this and yes it’s a GOOD as well as a BAD point, it adds to the excitement no doubt, but it can be a little off putting at times making the car feel a little too fidgety ( in my opinion). Funny enough this artificial Pedal box feel was engineered into the software V2 and toned down a little with V3 which I think leads to some if not most of these niggles, but it’s still apparent. I can only assume customers demanded it, I guess in the chase for more power.

Now don’t get me wrong, you can learn to drive through / around these and obviously turn the + settings down once you know they are there and where your cars limits are, but it’s worth mentioning, so that if you experience any of these you know you are not alone. Certainly on my car and on #steve 2015 s3’s car these have all occurred. (Other forum posts / threads have also brought these to light, #RO65ERS and #veeeight for example more recently) DTUK do advise to start the box on its lowest settings and gradually try each map and then add the + settings, as every car is different. However not everyone does this and many dive straight into the highest possible setting. Certainly that’s the experience I have seen glancing through the forum.

The other thing worth mentioning is the odd VCDS error code which may pop up if you scan the car and is something to be aware of. Boost Sensor / Manifold Pressure faults are the common error codes as is the occasional EPC or Engine warning light, especially after a hard prolonged run. It’s very noticeable if your car is sensitive to higher + settings. Scanning #steve 2015 s3 ’s car for example after our test runs revealed some of these codes. This is where I presume the cars electronics detect anomalies and step in, throwing errors. All can be cleared with VCDS and with regards to any warning lights, simply stop the car take the key from the ignition and re-start and they should disappear from the dash. Every car is of course different and not everyone will encounter all of the above, however I wanted to share my experience which mirrors that of #steve 2015 s3 and others on the forums about the odd error code. Once again playing with the programs and dialling down the + settings from + 3 to + 1 for example can dramatically reduce these niggles, chiefly with the notchy gear changes on the DSG and cold engine drivability items etc. But you do have to ask the question, why are they there in the first place?


SUMMARY: Overall the DTUK box completely changes the character of the car. It enhances everything, both good and to a certain extent bad. Jump into a car fitted with the DTUK box from stock and you can instantly feel the low down torque difference. If you are looking for full on excitement then this box delivers for that Sunday morning drive, in fact any day of the week drive. Especially in higher + settings. However it’s not without its negatives. Go in knowing the potential niggles and how to reduce them ( get yourself VCDS or be on first name terms with a local buddy who owns it, if your car is sensitive run it on lower + settings etc ) and I think most people would thoroughly enjoy the box.

In one sentence the best way I can describe the DTUK box…. Is it’s like having the volume dial instantly turned to MAX, everything is enhanced.. good and to some extent the bad


MORE TO COME WORD LIMITS !!!!!!

 

[jungle650]

COMPARISONS:

Now for the comparisons. I lived with the DTUK box for about 6 months, completing the best part of 2500-3000 miles, the MTM has only been a few weeks so is relatively new to me, but I have pulled on that experience. I have also been able to complete back to back and side by side comparisons, not only on my car, but with the assistance of another forum member with a near as possible identical S3 8V model running the DTUK FSR+ box. ( #steve 2015 s3 ). This enabled a true back to back, comparison not just with my thoughts from running both boxes but also 2 different drivers swapping cars and comparing notes. We completed multiple runs around a 4 mile circuit, jumping from one car to the next. This gave us the opportunity to capture our initial thoughts and discuss all of the pros / cons. (Both cars were the same shape, same gearbox - DSG cars, similar mileage approx 10-15k and with similar fuel loads, so were as close as possible for a fair comparison).


View attachment 86909


DTUK FSR+ Box V3 Software – Back to back.


Program 1+3 settings. – DTUK claims this is the most powerful and widely used program, this is probably the case for manual owners. However Program 3+1 / +2 settings is what I would imagine most DSG owners will end up using. Read below for more details. We used 1+3 settings for performance comparisons and I used 3+2 on my own car for back to back comments.

When you first jump into the car fitted with the DTUK box on its higher settings, you can instantly feel the increase in boost / power, at least I could. From just about 1500 - 2000 revs on full throttle the car pulls very hard, in fact so hard compared to stock, it’s difficult not to walk away without a huge grin on your face. I remember giggling like a school girl after my first initial run on high settings. The car simply feels like rocket boosters have been strapped to it. On lower settings it is still impressive but doesn’t have quite the same punch which pushes you into the back of the seat. In terms of raw power the box gives the impression of a strong and very powerful car, especially lower down the rev range. It completely revolutionizes the car and makes you feel like you have a bigger engine upfront. In some ways the car feels and behaves more like a diesel engine with the box fitted offering a huge slug of torque early in the power / rev range before it flattens off. The character of the car is transformed. Throttle response is almost instant and overtaking manoeuvres are a breeze…. in fact in just about any gear. When you are on full throttle the car just flies.


WOW is your first impression, that’s certainly how mine was.


The DTUK box comes with several maps and settings. With the latest V3 software, Map 1 is the most aggressive with lots of low down surge. Map 2 is a toned down version and Map 3 is the fastest of the original older maps offering consistent power through most of the rev range. From these most DSG owners tend to gravitate towards Map 3 with a +1 or +2 setting or Map 2 on a +1 setting. The reason for this is that other settings can make for the occasional hard gear change. It’s fine for a drag race off the lights or the odd Sunday morning drive but not really useable / comfortable as a daily driver or with passengers in the car. Manual owners seem to either prefer Map 1 or Map 3 and can generally tolerate higher + settings, I guess this is because they have full control over the gear box? The + settings are all individual of course but most seem to settle on +2.

The reason the latest maps 1 and 2 feel more aggressive than previous versions (lots of torque low down with almost instant throttle response) is that they have been engineered to mimic the feel of the DTUK FSR+ box alongside a DTE pedal box. What you find is that the torque is delivered lower down the rev range and quickly builds to a peak before it seems to flatten off, you could say it makes the cars feel more like a fast diesel with a real low down punch rather than a petrol car that likes to rev out to the red line. This has its pros and cons. The cars feel instantly quick off the line and rapid, I mean really rapid, especially in 2nd, 3rd gears etc as traction is no longer an issue.

However drive the DTUK box for a bit longer and especially without being “ on it “ and the box can feel a little on / off with how the performance is delivered. All of the trickery and added high boost / power does have its minor drawbacks, especially on the higher + settings. Gear changes can start to feel notchy, especially at certain points in the rev range ( and especially DSG cars ) throttle response can also be a little snatchy and if you hesitate / lift off mid boost the car can feel very odd, almost as if the electronics / gearbox / drive train can’t quite keep up. Cold engine driving can also sometimes reflect some drivability issues with the car feeling a little jumpy on anything other than very gentle throttle, which remains until the car is fully warmed up. This is exhibited sometimes on a stock / standard car, but it seems to be exaggerated 10 fold by the DTUK box. In these circumstances you know it’s a bolt on unit as it doesn’t feel like it is part of the cars original dynamics, (as mentioned it fundamentally changes them). This is especially true on Programs 1 or 2 in the higher + 3 setting, the power delivery is “on” with anything over mild / part throttle and especially with the higher + settings. Now some people will love this and yes it’s a GOOD as well as a BAD point, it adds to the excitement no doubt, but it can be a little off putting at times making the car feel a little too fidgety ( in my opinion). Funny enough this artificial Pedal box feel was engineered into the software V2 and toned down a little with V3 which I think leads to some if not most of these niggles, but it’s still apparent. I can only assume customers demanded it, I guess in the chase for more power.

Now don’t get me wrong, you can learn to drive through / around these and obviously turn the + settings down once you know they are there and where your cars limits are, but it’s worth mentioning, so that if you experience any of these you know you are not alone. Certainly on my car and on #steve 2015 s3’s car these have all occurred. (Other forum posts / threads have also brought these to light, #RO65ERS and #veeeight for example more recently) DTUK do advise to start the box on its lowest settings and gradually try each map and then add the + settings, as every car is different. However not everyone does this and many dive straight into the highest possible setting. Certainly that’s the experience I have seen glancing through the forum.

The other thing worth mentioning is the odd VCDS error code which may pop up if you scan the car and is something to be aware of. Boost Sensor / Manifold Pressure faults are the common error codes as is the occasional EPC or Engine warning light, especially after a hard prolonged run. It’s very noticeable if your car is sensitive to higher + settings. Scanning #steve 2015 s3 ’s car for example after our test runs revealed some of these codes. This is where I presume the cars electronics detect anomalies and step in, throwing errors. All can be cleared with VCDS and with regards to any warning lights, simply stop the car take the key from the ignition and re-start and they should disappear from the dash. Every car is of course different and not everyone will encounter all of the above, however I wanted to share my experience which mirrors that of #steve 2015 s3 and others on the forums about the odd error code. Once again playing with the programs and dialling down the + settings from + 3 to + 1 for example can dramatically reduce these niggles, chiefly with the notchy gear changes on the DSG and cold engine drivability items etc. But you do have to ask the question, why are they there in the first place?


SUMMARY: Overall the DTUK box completely changes the character of the car. It enhances everything, both good and to a certain extent bad. Jump into a car fitted with the DTUK box from stock and you can instantly feel the low down torque difference. If you are looking for full on excitement then this box delivers for that Sunday morning drive, in fact any day of the week drive. Especially in higher + settings. However it’s not without its negatives. Go in knowing the potential niggles and how to reduce them ( get yourself VCDS or be on first name terms with a local buddy who owns it, if your car is sensitive run it on lower + settings etc ) and I think most people would thoroughly enjoy the box.


In one sentence the best way I can describe the DTUK box…. Is it’s like having the volume dial instantly turned to MAX, everything is enhanced.. good and to some extent the bad


MORE TO COME WORD LIMITS !!!!!!

MTM – M Cantronic box. - Back to back

The MTM does not have any programs or settings to configure, it simply is a plug and play unit which takes minutes to install. Unlike the DTUK box it does not connect to just 3 sensors around the engine, but to the entire ECU control centre via the Can bus. A wide range of parameters from the ECU are monitored via the Can bus loom and adjusted on the fly by the M-Cantronic box mimicking in some ways a new ECU, hence my comment at the start of the thread about the ABT similarities. Apparently this is a more sophisticated solution than the DTUK box but it’s not my place to comment any further. I certainly have not stripped the boxes down to test, nor completed any diagnostics around air / fuel / lambda etc, it’s just based on the information available on the internet and across other threads on the VW / Audi forums. However I imagine a fair chunk of the extra cash that this box costs compared to the DTUK and other offerings with similar connections is taken up by the Bosch OEM Can bus wiring loom. That’s a very expensive bit of wire.


Now for the drive…..When you first jump into the car with the MTM fitted it feels progressive and fast with a power delivery not unlike stock, just simply stronger, especially as the revs rise. Below 2500 revs it’s hard to feel any real difference if I am honest other than a marginally crisper throttle response. However plant the accelerator and the car takes off. It pulls harder from stock in a progressive manner with power really coming into play after 3500 revs with a hearty punch but not an aggressive one which carries all the way to the red line. Relentless delivery but in a progressive and less intrusive manner is probably how I would initially describe it. That’s not too say the car doesn’t pull hard from idle it does, but it really comes on song as the revs rise. Throttle response is sharper, crisper almost from idle without being brutal or unruly. Your initial thought is wow the power is so SMOOOOTH. You are not giggling like a school girl, but there is still a large grin on your face by the time the car hits the higher revs and carries all the way to the red line, enticing you to reach for the next gear and repeat the process.

You do not get the initial punch like you get from the DTUK box, but the power is definitely there, it builds in a linear fashion quickly through the revs then diverges from stock over about 4000- 4500 rpm and pushes really hard encouraging you to reach out for the red line. The car feels fast, really fast in fact, but it’s not until you look down at the speedometer that you really appreciate just how swiftly you are moving. Several times I said a few expletives when I looked down at the speedo and realised I was travelling at least 20mph-30mph faster than where I thought I might or should be. It’s quite a strange warp like experience.

Gear changes are a pleasure with MTM box fitted, the DSG gearbox remains in complete sync with the car, in fact it actually feels like its improved things, if that’s possible without a full DSG remap?. Gear changes are deceptively quick. No matter how you drive the car, lift off mid boost, plant the throttle, change gear at any revs you cannot throw / unsettle the box or the car. The MTM unit feels as if it in unison or at one with the vehicle. Everything feels like it has just come straight out of the Audi factory. The car simply has more power. I can only imagine this is how the RS3 feels like in terms of stock performance or how the S3 should have really left the factory in the first place, if it wasn’t for the fact that they had to leave room in the Audi line up for the RS3. Drive the car from cold and it’s no different, the box cannot be fooled / or unsettled. It simply feels like a stronger stock car. In fact the box seems to limit its full extra power until the car warms up which is a nice feature.

After a number of hard runs, daily drives and a couple of weeks of scans the MTM M-Cantronic box has not thrown one error code or warning light. It seems to work from the word go and has become part of the car and just makes for a stronger more factory esq. feeling. A little box of tricks, yes, deceptive you bet, subtle.. probably.. ..yet still impressive stuff.


SUMMARY: The power delivery of the MTM M-Cantronic is velvet like in its smoothness and builds as the revs rise. Does it have the same initial impact and punch as the DTUK box, No not really … well…. yes in a way. Let me explain….. It does to a certain point over a stock car that’s for sure, but jump from a DTUK box car which is on one of the higher settings into an MTM car and they are very different. The MTM M- Cantronic power delivery is discrete in many ways it’s progressive and increases as the revs rise. Something akin to the attractive girl next door, who just happens to be madly in love with you and you know will make superb marriage material. Compared to the DTUK FSR+ offering, which feels far more brutal / feistier lower down the rev range and especially in the higher + settings in Map 1 for example yet doesn’t always hold your attention to the red line. To use a similar analogy to the MTM, it’s like a date with the blond airhead, fantastic for a cheeky one off date, but marriage material?

Its only when you drive both boxes back to back you can really feel this. The DTUK box on Map 3 is closer to the MTM in its general power, but they are still different in their delivery. If I am honest the DTUK still feels the stronger unit torque wise, even in Map 3. That I guess bares out in the physical numbers that the manufactures quote. The MTM-M Cantronic however improves the stock car in a subtle ….softer…. but very effective way, it’s not quite as muscular as the DTUK but it feels pretty effective none the less. You can see / feel that MTM have spent plenty of time ensuring that the character of the car is enhanced in an evolutionary way rather than a revolutionary way. The cars character remains intact, that’s for sure but make no doubt about it, it is intensified.

Gear changes, throttle responses are all enhanced but amazingly remain perfect, making for an improved experience over stock. Use manual mode in a DSG car for example and it shifts gear effortlessly, efficiently and at an alarmingly quick pace without any major concerns or grumbles from the transmission. The power increase feels as if it’s completed without promoting any of the negatives from the stock car and has a level of adjustability and crisper throttle response that many people will crave. The MTM-M Cantronic seems to trigger its power increase in a subtler and gentler manner which is still very effective but feels as if the car is completely on board. Neither the materials nor the cars components feel like they are being compromised in any way. The MTM feels as if it is in complete parity with the car. MTM have stated that they spent plenty of time on R&D and its here that you can see it. This is probably why MTM can offer the warranty and I guess why people plump for the box over other options.


In one sentence the best way I can describe the MTM-M Cantronic box, …Is…. it’s like having the volume dial set at the MID PONT from the word go then slowly turned to MAX, all of the good bits are enhanced during this process without any of the negatives in a controlled and progressive manner that seems in complete unison with the stock car.

SIDE BY SIDE: As we had 2 cars, one with the MTM M-Cantronic and one with the DTUK FSR+ box we were in a unique position and able to complete side by side comparisons across various scenarios. We swapped cars / drivers regularly so that we could see if results were due to driver ability / individual car or based on a jump start !. We were very excited….

After driving both cars in the back to back we both agreed that the DTUK box initially felt quicker but the MTM came into its own marginally higher up the rev range from about 3500 - 4500 rpm onwards with its strong and progressive power delivery all the way to the red line. So a side by side comparison would be very interesting.

Initial thoughts were that the DTUK felt like it might just have the edge, but that might be deceptive………..


……………..

The reality and the surprise to both of us, was in fact was that we could not separate the boxes / cars. We really could not and boy did we try I kid you not! Both were neck and neck across various runs and speed scenarios through the gears. 2nd, 3rd,and 4th etc all the way up to healthy motorway numbers.

We completed several runs swapping drivers/cars and trying different acceleration tests, we were both fundamentally surprised. They were basically the same performance wise, certainly to the sort of speeds that most people would go up to. Sorry we did not test silly warp factor high 3 digit speeds.

Both cars side by side performed very well and just flew with nothing in them to call a difference.

Now that was a bit of a shock, especially given the torque that the DTUK develops.

 

[jungle650]

View attachment 86910


MTM – M Cantronic box. - Back to back

The MTM does not have any programs or settings to configure, it simply is a plug and play unit which takes minutes to install. Unlike the DTUK box it does not connect to just 3 sensors around the engine, but to the entire ECU control centre via the Can bus. A wide range of parameters from the ECU are monitored via the Can bus loom and adjusted on the fly by the M-Cantronic box mimicking in some ways a new ECU, hence my comment at the start of the thread about the ABT similarities. Apparently this is a more sophisticated solution than the DTUK box but it’s not my place to comment any further. I certainly have not stripped the boxes down to test, nor completed any diagnostics around air / fuel / lambda etc, it’s just based on the information available on the internet and across other threads on the VW / Audi forums. However I imagine a fair chunk of the extra cash that this box costs compared to the DTUK and other offerings with similar connections is taken up by the Bosch OEM Can bus wiring loom. That’s a very expensive bit of wire.


Now for the drive…..When you first jump into the car with the MTM fitted it feels progressive and fast with a power delivery not unlike stock, just simply stronger, especially as the revs rise. Below 2500 revs it’s hard to feel any real difference if I am honest other than a marginally crisper throttle response. However plant the accelerator and the car takes off. It pulls harder from stock in a progressive manner with power really coming into play after 3500 revs with a hearty punch but not an aggressive one which carries all the way to the red line. Relentless delivery but in a progressive and less intrusive manner is probably how I would initially describe it. That’s not too say the car doesn’t pull hard from idle it does, but it really comes on song as the revs rise. Throttle response is sharper, crisper almost from idle without being brutal or unruly. Your initial thought is wow the power is so SMOOOOTH. You are not giggling like a school girl, but there is still a large grin on your face by the time the car hits the higher revs and carries all the way to the red line, enticing you to reach for the next gear and repeat the process.

You do not get the initial punch like you get from the DTUK box, but the power is definitely there, it builds in a linear fashion quickly through the revs then diverges from stock over about 4000- 4500 rpm and pushes really hard encouraging you to reach out for the red line. The car feels fast, really fast in fact, but it’s not until you look down at the speedometer that you really appreciate just how swiftly you are moving. Several times I said a few expletives when I looked down at the speedo and realised I was travelling at least 20mph-30mph faster than where I thought I might or should be. It’s quite a strange warp like experience.

Gear changes are a pleasure with MTM box fitted, the DSG gearbox remains in complete sync with the car, in fact it actually feels like its improved things, if that’s possible without a full DSG remap?. Gear changes are deceptively quick. No matter how you drive the car, lift off mid boost, plant the throttle, change gear at any revs you cannot throw / unsettle the box or the car. The MTM unit feels as if it in unison or at one with the vehicle. Everything feels like it has just come straight out of the Audi factory. The car simply has more power. I can only imagine this is how the RS3 feels like in terms of stock performance or how the S3 should have really left the factory in the first place, if it wasn’t for the fact that they had to leave room in the Audi line up for the RS3. Drive the car from cold and it’s no different, the box cannot be fooled / or unsettled. It simply feels like a stronger stock car. In fact the box seems to limit its full extra power until the car warms up which is a nice feature.

After a number of hard runs, daily drives and a couple of weeks of scans the MTM M-Cantronic box has not thrown one error code or warning light. It seems to work from the word go and has become part of the car and just makes for a stronger more factory esq. feeling. A little box of tricks, yes, deceptive you bet, subtle.. probably.. ..yet still impressive stuff.


SUMMARY: The power delivery of the MTM M-Cantronic is velvet like in its smoothness and builds as the revs rise. Does it have the same initial impact and punch as the DTUK box, No not really … well…. yes in a way. Let me explain….. It does to a certain point over a stock car that’s for sure, but jump from a DTUK box car which is on one of the higher settings into an MTM car and they are very different. The MTM M- Cantronic power delivery is discrete in many ways it’s progressive and increases as the revs rise. Something akin to the attractive girl next door, who just happens to be madly in love with you and you know will make superb marriage material. Compared to the DTUK FSR+ offering, which feels far more brutal / feistier lower down the rev range and especially in the higher + settings in Map 1 for example yet doesn’t always hold your attention to the red line. To use a similar analogy to the MTM, it’s like a date with the blond airhead, fantastic for a cheeky one off date, but marriage material?

Its only when you drive both boxes back to back you can really feel this. The DTUK box on Map 3 is closer to the MTM in its general power, but they are still different in their delivery. If I am honest the DTUK still feels the stronger unit torque wise, even in Map 3. That I guess bares out in the physical numbers that the manufactures quote. The MTM-M Cantronic however improves the stock car in a subtle ….softer…. but very effective way, it’s not quite as muscular as the DTUK but it feels pretty effective none the less. You can see / feel that MTM have spent plenty of time ensuring that the character of the car is enhanced in an evolutionary way rather than a revolutionary way. The cars character remains intact, that’s for sure but make no doubt about it, it is intensified.

Gear changes, throttle responses are all enhanced but amazingly remain perfect, making for an improved experience over stock. Use manual mode in a DSG car for example and it shifts gear effortlessly, efficiently and at an alarmingly quick pace without any major concerns or grumbles from the transmission. The power increase feels as if it’s completed without promoting any of the negatives from the stock car and has a level of adjustability and crisper throttle response that many people will crave. The MTM-M Cantronic seems to trigger its power increase in a subtler and gentler manner which is still very effective but feels as if the car is completely on board. Neither the materials nor the cars components feel like they are being compromised in any way. The MTM feels as if it is in complete parity with the car. MTM have stated that they spent plenty of time on R&D and its here that you can see it. This is probably why MTM can offer the warranty and I guess why people plump for the box over other options.


In one sentence the best way I can describe the MTM-M Cantronic box, …Is…. it’s like having the volume dial set at the MID PONT from the word go then slowly turned to MAX, all of the good bits are enhanced during this process without any of the negatives in a controlled and progressive manner that seems in complete unison with the stock car.









SIDE BY SIDE: As we had 2 cars, one with the MTM M-Cantronic and one with the DTUK FSR+ box we were in a unique position and able to complete side by side comparisons across various scenarios. We swapped cars / drivers regularly so that we could see if results were due to driver ability / individual car or based on a jump start !. We were very excited….

After driving both cars in the back to back we both agreed that the DTUK box initially felt quicker but the MTM came into its own marginally higher up the rev range from about 3500 - 4500 rpm onwards with its strong and progressive power delivery all the way to the red line. So a side by side comparison would be very interesting.

Initial thoughts were that the DTUK felt like it might just have the edge, but that might be deceptive………..


……………..

The reality and the surprise to both of us, was in fact was that we could not separate the boxes / cars. We really could not and boy did we try I kid you not! Both were neck and neck across various runs and speed scenarios through the gears. 2nd, 3rd,and 4th etc all the way up to healthy motorway numbers.

We completed several runs swapping drivers/cars and trying different acceleration tests, we were both fundamentally surprised. They were basically the same performance wise, certainly to the sort of speeds that most people would go up to. Sorry we did not test silly warp factor high 3 digit speeds.

Both cars side by side performed very well and just flew with nothing in them to call a difference.

Now that was a bit of a shock, especially given the torque that the DTUK develops.

CONCLUSION: I guess the million dollar questions are: What would I buy if I was to start again from scratch? ….and….. What have I kept on the car?.....If anything.

The DTUK box is hard to look past, it is at a price point that doesn’t put a significant dent in your pocket, especially used, it’s a steal / complete bargain. It offers superb performance and for the most part is relatively quickly removed, albeit you have to raise the car. Make no mistake I am a big fan. The way it changes the character of the car is very exciting in the higher + settings, but unfortunately not every car can tolerate these and especially the DSG ones. The DTUK box is not without its niggles, but it’s probably the best bang for buck you can purchase if you are looking at tuning boxes or want to spice up the car.

The fact that DTUK continue to improve the software and the hardware and how great the staff are on the phone is a testament to the product and l have no doubt they will continue to iron out those small niggles in the future so that all cars can run the high settings. If I was on a budget or just wanted to dip my toes in to the tuning scene for a taste of that the car is capable of, this is probably where my money would go., just factor in VCDS ….....And this was exactly what I did!

The MTM-M Cantronic on the other hand, is an expensive item that is without question. But I do think you can see where some of the money has gone. The R&D that MTM have put into this box to make it blend with the car and improve performance without any niggles has to be appreciated. No doubt you are paying for the MTM brand in some part as well but the Can bus wiring loom is no cheap item either. I'm sure all of the facets add up and thats where a large part of the cash is spent. But the way the box seems to just marry with the car is beautiful. It changes the car enough to make the difference worthwhile, but doesn’t ruin anything, offering fantastic performance in an uncompromised package. It’s incredibly simple to fit and remove without the need to raise the car and without the need for any tools. It feels as though MTM have really done their homework on the software side of things as well as the hardware and this is backed up by the offer of a drive train warranty should the Audi one fall foul.

For me the MTM-M Cantronic box is money well spent, certainly used any way. Its no bargain, but the money is not wasted. It’s a fantastic bit of kit. Incredibly easy to fit / remove and with the added bonus of an extra warranty should you want to pay for it (this also available on used items if you take it back to MTM, but at a very high cost). It works in complete harmony with the car straight out of the box with zero error codes / warning lights etc. It seems to improve and enhance all of the good bits without dialing up any of the bad points in the car. For simple peace of mind it ticks the box completely. I am happy for it to feel slightly less powerful lower in the rev range as it seems to reward higher up when you probably need it most and it does this in a manner which appears to fit so well with the car, complimenting and enhancing the overall experience.


FINAL NOTES

Having tried both back to back and side by side I am amazed that they offer such similar straight line performance. The numbers from the relevant websites would seem to tell a different story as well as some of the dyno graphs as does your butt dyno, but it’s simply not the case. Make no mistake, the way the performance across both boxes is delivered is quite different, that’s hopefully obvious by now, certainly from the seat of your pants. With the DTUK offering more low end torque and initial punch and the MTM building on stock power throughout the rev range, pulling hard about 1000 – 1500 revs later but with a lovely crisp linear and fundamentally smooth power delivery.

Both offer seat of your pants stomach crunching performance, the DTUK is at the beginning of the rev range, and the MTM comes into its own from mid to the upper end, building to a crescendo close to the red line.

Both will put a smile on your face that I am pretty sure of. One just feels rawer than the other and I guess it just boils down to how you want your performance served.

Would I recommend anyone else with a DTUK box to switch to the MTM? I would have to probably say NO. But it depends what you are looking for and how you drive your car and I guess to some extent how long you intend to keep it. The MTM is a quality item, but it clearly comes at a price. Some would say too high...Others would not.

Buying a tuning box for the first time.. This might be a different answer, and some of that will of course boil down to budget. The majority will love the DTUK and I did. Its just those niggles......

One thing I do know, is once you have sampled a car with the kind of performance on offer from these 2 boxes you simply can’t go back to a normal stock car.. You just can’t, it’s almost criminal.

For me the opportunity presented its self, I had already taken off the DTUK box and was unsure about putting it back on (service / trade in / change car / keep car etc ) and fundamentally curiosity got the better of me. The MTM is expensive, but I am glad I have tried it, in my opinion you can feel where the money has been spent, it’s not about the raw numbers for me, it’s about how it’s been developed to work with the car, add to that the ease of installation / removal and in my mind it’s a keeper. Let alone it keeps pace with the DTUK car... thats a Brucie bonus.

Thanks go out to #steve 2015 s3 for making lots of this possible and enabling me to really do a true comparison, especially the side by sides. Thanks also go out to #batch who assisted in the beginning with fitting advice and has been a bit of a sounding board over the past couple of weeks. #Silky-S3 gets a little nod as it was his original MTM box... although still looking for some of the paperwork please sir !

And of course thx for taking the time to read this long, very very long post. .. apologies about that.

Thanks Jungle


Now what’s next…….hhhmmmm…. RS3?, pedal box with the MTM, that might be interesting? … hhhhmm who knows…..

 

[Tony1982]

Decent write up there pal, worth the read!

 

[veeeight]

Excellent write up. Many thanks.

My 2p is that from around 120mph and above (due to AFR, EGT and timing pull), you'll see the difference between the two boxes, but obviously you can't do that sort of testing on UK roads .

 

[Kugaman1]

Superb article, very interesting thanks!

 

[jimojameso]

Excellent review there. Thanks for taking the time to write that!

 

[Max-Robbo]

Thank you for that @jungle650 ! just bought a DTUK CRD3+ (i'm sure it bears some similarities to the FSR+ in performance for the diesel), and you've confirmed I've made the right choice (for my preference ofc.)

 

[RO65ERS]

Fantastic write up.
You picked up on everything that needs to be mentioned for the dtuk.

I run a manual on 1+3. Yes I'm one of the few, and it has yet to throw a fault code.
As you said on warm up, the first 90 seconds or so, it'll feel like a misfire on anything more than feathering the throttle, but it soon goes.
I can live with that knowing what it gives me.

I've been tempted by mtm for a while now, purely because of the warranty they offer, but my concern was the power delivery.
I'm just not the biggest fan of the dtuk map 3.
Going by what you said, I think I've made the right decision by not jumping ship and moving over.

Your posts on fittings and now this is a credit to the forum.
Good job!

But a back to back rolling road shoot out would be rather interesting.
As would a pedal box review on both boxes.

 

[ABYSS]

great review @jungle650, let me know if you want to try a pedal box and ill send you our demo unit..

 

[jungle650]

Fantastic write up.
You picked up on everything that needs to be mentioned for the dtuk.

I run a manual on 1+3. Yes I'm one of the few, and it has yet to throw a fault code.
As you said on warm up, the first 90 seconds or so, it'll feel like a misfire on anything more than feathering the throttle, but it soon goes.
I can live with that knowing what it gives me.

I've been tempted by mtm for a while now, purely because of the warranty they offer, but my concern was the power delivery.
I'm just not the biggest fan of the dtuk map 3.
Going by what you said, I think I've made the right decision by not jumping ship and moving over.

Your posts on fittings and now this is a credit to the forum.
Good job!

But a back to back rolling road shoot out would be rather interesting.
As would a pedal box review on both boxes.

Thx guys for your comments. I am thrilled that this has been so well received. I enjoy testing things out and putting pen to paper ( well keyboard etc ) so look forward to putting together some future interesting threads.

Thx again for reading. I'm proud to be part of ASN.

Regards
Jungle

 

[jungle650]

great review @jungle650, let me know if you want to try a pedal box and ill send you our demo unit..

Thanks Andrew. V Interesting and kind offer. I will PM u.

Thank you

 

[Martinbanshee]

Great review jungle, I've been toying with buying a box so it's good to see how those two compare.

 

[batch]

Next you need a CTS TIP elbow...

 

[ABYSS]

Thanks Andrew. V Interesting and kind offer. I will PM u.

Thank you

great to talk jungle650, thanks again for the above posts. Its informative, honest and i look forward to your thoughts on the pedal box.


You've made some great points above, and i would like to take this time to suggest that anyone running an FSR+ box, or intact anyone looking to buy a box takes your advice. Ignore what everyone else on this forum and others are suggesting is "the best setting", start at zero and take one step at a time.. Our usual advice is to try all 3 maps on zero, the take one step up at a time to plus 1, then plus 2 and maybe plus 3. You and your car will tell you whats best


Oh and if we have any DTUK customers reading this that are in the North East of England that are running an FSR+ on their DSG equipped S3, then please drop me a pm as we've started having a tinker around with the software again

 

[bqik]

wow, fantastic review!

As an MTM user for more than 2 years just and nearly 82.000 with the box installed can say it runs perfect.

regards!

 

[S3LVX]

Fantastic right up!! DTUK box owner myself, really happy with it for the price! Will definitely consider mtm in the future
sounds like a great product also!

 

[15audis3]

Great review! Actually quite tempted to change from DTUK to MTM if it works seamlessly with DSG/Stronic. You have to drill and replace some bolts on the ECU through right?

 

[RO65ERS]

Great review! Actually quite tempted to change from DTUK to MTM if it works seamlessly with DSG/Stronic. You have to drill and replace some bolts on the ECU through right?

if you have a manual, you will have a security casing on the ECU, this is sealed by sheer bolts.
new ones can be ordered.

to remove them, drill them, or a hammer and chisel will tap them off.

 

[jungle650]

if you have a manual, you will have a security casing on the ECU, this is sealed by sheer bolts.
new ones can be ordered.

to remove them, drill them, or a hammer and chisel will tap them off.

Manual owners will have to do the above. DSG owners do not have to remove cage as there is not one... Simples

 

[15audis3]

Nice, is there a UK supplier for these or just via http://www.mtm-online.de/en/products?FZID=S38V221Q&KIT=m2s3300360qmv ?

 

[batch]

Nice, is there a UK supplier for these or just via http://www.mtm-online.de/en/products?FZID=S38V221Q&KIT=m2s3300360qmv ?

Kim at QS Tuning (QST) in Haywards Heath, West Sussex. Will install for free or you can order for delivery if you convince him you're capable!

 

[APL 3.0TDi]

Fantastic write up. Thanks.

I am considering a DTUK box for my S3 due later this year.

I had one on my E92 320d and it was fantastic.

 

[Tony1982]

What is the difference between the 2 options MTM offer?

They have one priced at around £950:
PERFORMANCE UPGRADE AUDI S3 SB 8V 360 HP (265 KW)

and they also have one for around £1200:
M-CANTRONIC AUDI S3 SB 8V 360 HP (265 KW) V/MAX.

They both seem to have the same performance gains, so just wondered what's different or better...?

 

[vacant]

Is one a remap and one the tuning box?

 

[batch]

Is one a remap and one the tuning box?

Spot on. And the map won't work on every car, I imagine, plus once it's on it's on.

 

[thewanted]

Fantastic write up!

I had a JB1 on my Audi S1 and replaced it soon afterwards with an MTM M-Cantronic. The JB1 didn't really feel that much quicker and it used to make the pedals vibrate which was an odd sensation. I also hated the fact that the front of the car had to be jacked up to access the JB1 because the engine undertray in the S1 is screwed in at the back and not the front like the S3.

I've been very happy with the M-Cantronic, and like @jungle650 said, it can be removed very easily with no tools. I've removed mine twice in the past two months before taking it into Audi.

 

[vacant]

Has anyone any experience of the Abt upgrade, looks similar to the Mtm?

 

[thewanted]

Has anyone any experience of the Abt upgrade, looks similar to the Mtm?

@Ian Whiffen has one on his S1. He loves it

 

[MikeParkin]

I'm manual and running 3 3+ I feel that it's the stronger map by far had a play at the weekend. Waiting for CTS inlet and outlet see how it goes from there.

 

[msdmjb]

Excellent information, I am so tempted by the MTM in particular but with a manual S3 get concerned about the clutch, unfounded?
Only reason I don't get the DTUK is having to get under the car to fit it.

 

[Ian Whiffen]

Has anyone any experience of the Abt upgrade, looks similar to the Mtm?

Hi yeah I have the ABT ecu on my S1. It's been great. Had it just over a year now and have just clocked up 12k miles on it. Clutch is still good and the performance makes me smile every time I drive it.

 

[Kugaman1]

Excellent information, I am so tempted by the MTM in particular but with a manual S3 get concerned about the clutch, unfounded?
Only reason I don't get the DTUK is having to get under the car to fit it.

Seriously?
You jack one side of the car up and remove the undertray, takes literally 15 mins!
I fitted mine in under an hour.
I removed it in under 40 mins as I now have points on my license!!!

Its in the classifieds for sale if anyones looking for one!!

 

[veeeight]

Seriously?
You jack one side of the car up and remove the undertray, takes literally 15 mins!
I fitted mine in under an hour.
I removed it in under 40 mins as I now have points on my license!!!

Its in the classifieds for sale if anyones looking for one!!

That's not the fault of the box

 

[Jiten C]

Seriously?
You jack one side of the car up and remove the undertray, takes literally 15 mins!
I fitted mine in under an hour.
I removed it in under 40 mins as I now have points on my license!!!

Its in the classifieds for sale if anyones looking for one!!

which classifieds? nothing on the 8v forum

 

[OliS3]

I'll post a review of the JB1 tuning box shortly, another one worth considering.

I'm very happy with it just need more time to test the custom mapping before doing a full review. Here is a quick run down if anyone is interested.

Pros.. Cheaper, can customise boost levels, adds fuel which avoids waiting for the STFT to kick in (in short you don't run lean like the DTUK does) and it also means DSG users don't get jerky changes, supports meth kits, update the firmware using a lead rather than sending it back.

Cons.. No direct power supply, quality of the wiring and box isn't as good as the DTUK, no direct UK support, no blanking plug (map 0 makes the car stock but the box is still attached)

 

[OliS3]

which classifieds? nothing on the 8v forum

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/dtuk-fsr-box-for-audi-s3-8v-or-golf-r.268712/

 

[Kugaman1]

That's not the fault of the box

I know but it didnt help.......

 

[S3 Turbo]

I'll post a review of the JB1 tuning box shortly, another one worth considering.

I'm very happy with it just need more time to test the custom mapping before doing a full review. Here is a quick run down if anyone is interested.

Pros.. Cheaper, can customise boost levels, adds fuel which avoids waiting for the STFT to kick in (in short you don't run lean like the DTUK does) and it also means DSG users don't get jerky changes, supports meth kits, update the firmware using a lead rather than sending it back.

Cons.. No direct power supply, quality of the wiring and box isn't as good as the DTUK, no direct UK support, no blanking plug (map 0 makes the car stock but the box is still attached)

Few people reply on mails and forum posts as fast as George though.

Btw to those having manuals. The default map6 is set to be very clutch friendly. Close to no slippage reports on this.
(in the end it may perhaps be inevitable though on these 'chocolate' clutches.)