Transfer box failure…due to tyres?

[randy4]

Been into Audi today to diagnose a droning noise coming from centre of car from 25mph upwards.

So, turns out transfer box is knackered needing a 3 grand spend to fix it. (Car is stock FYI) on the Audi cam the technician pointed out that 235 tyres had been fitted to the 255 alloys! Stretched over. I’ve checked spec sheet as I’ve only had car 9 months so hardly driven it over COVID and it is true it should have the wider 255 set on the front. The techy then said this is the source of the problem and that the warranty was void due to this. I had not fitted these tyres they came on the car which was an approved used car from VW.

My question to anyone here is does this sound like the possible cause to the transfer box fail. I do trust what I have been told but my mates have given me doubt in that Audi might be looking for something to pin the cause to and not have to pay for the repair?

 

[garethdj]

Can’t see how the techy can say the warranty is void. I’m sure he’s probably correct but it’ll need to go to Audi for a claim to be rejected first, unless that’s what’s already happened.

I’d be going back to the VW dealer!


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[ArrEssDrei]

Well technically the tyres do need to be the same diameter to keep the haldex happy. Stock Pirelli 255 fronts are the same diameter as the stock 235 rears on the staggered setup, and no other 255 tyre seems to be. So the only other option is a non staggered setup with the same tyre front and rear. The .5" of stretch might change the diameter slightly. You could measure the circumfrance of the front and rear and see what you come up with I think a few mm would be hard to argue, especially when tyre pressures are taken into account. But it seems like any excuse not to warranty with Audi...

You could also say the door sticker and manual does list 235 for and rear as an option, and nowhere does it say you cannot fit a 235 to the wider front wheels.

Hope it all works out for you!

 

[8YARWY]

235 vs 255

I run 235 fronts on 8.5j alloys and it’s a tyre size that’s acceptable on that rim size.

It’s not unheard of for a diff to fail though, but through a square tyre setup, I’m doubtful.

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[randy4]

Can’t see how the techy can say the warranty is void. I’m sure he’s probably correct but it’ll need to go to Audi for a claim to be rejected first, unless that’s what’s already happened.

I’d be going back to the VW dealer!


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Definitely going back to the dealer about this! Not acceptable really

 

[randy4]

So if you opt for the square setup should there be a mapping change to alter the amount of power to those wheels?

 

[8YARWY]

So if you opt for the square setup should there be a mapping change to alter the amount of power to those wheels?

Nope.

I’ve been on 235’s all round on FL for over 2 years.
You don’t know the history of the car before you bought it ?


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[randy4]

I bought it as an approved used car from VW. I cannot see the tyre change so I imagine it was a non main dealer job or tyre place. The tyres do look stretched as the techy on the vid shows he compares with the back and they are the same PS4S on the front to the back they curve over from the alloy rather than follow the face of the alloy then a radius then a flat. I didn’t notice any driving difference tbh but I’ve only done motorway driving 2 times a week. It does make me wonder whether it is just an excuse to void the warranty. It must be running those tyres for only 5k as they had about 7mm on them when I bought it.

 

[Sequence]

This is highly unlikely to have been caused by the tyres especially with your setup, Many cars in the US that are running very different setups and running fine. It sounds like typical Audi rubbish fobbing you off. Fight this with them, it is not acceptable.

 

[randy4]

What typically can cause the transfer box to fail? I know that is a circumstantial question but I’m frantically reading through other posts about the transfer box to see what I can possibly go back with…for now I have to go back to VW to say you sold me a car that doesn’t match the spec or it is hardly approved used if the tyres weren’t approved against the spec

 

[8YARWY]

What typically can cause the transfer box to fail? I know that is a circumstantial question but I’m frantically reading through other posts about the transfer box to see what I can possibly go back with…for now I have to go back to VW to say you sold me a car that doesn’t match the spec or it is hardly approved used if the tyres weren’t approved against the spec

It’s pointless going back to them with possible causes of failures you’ve ‘read’ about on the web.
If it was sold to you like this (with these tyres) then go back to your supplying dealer and take it up with them.
They are using the tyres as a get out.

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[flybynite]

What typically can cause the transfer box to fail? I know that is a circumstantial question but I’m frantically reading through other posts about the transfer box to see what I can possibly go back with…for now I have to go back to VW to say you sold me a car that doesn’t match the spec or it is hardly approved used if the tyres weren’t approved against the spec

235 tyres all round is an approved fitment, 1\2 inch extra stretch on the front wheels will make sod all difference to the rolling radius and will remain within the Audi tolerance laid down for quattro cars. He needs to explain exactly how it affected the "Transfer Box". By that I assume he means the Haldex coupling. My Mk2 Land-Rover has a transfer box, very different operation to the Haldex.

If it is the Haldex I would be giving it an oil change and replacing the pump first before forking out on anything else.

I would also be chasing the supplying dealer for not supplying it as Audi specify it should be, 235 on the front should be on an 8" wheel, otherwise they should be staggered RO1/RO2 tyres all round.

 

[randy4]

VW had assured me that the Haldex had been serviced just before the sale. So most likely a year ago. Having listened to the Audi Cam again he refers to it as a Bevel box/transfer box and actually calls out the “slash” in the video which I noted as odd. Maybe that is its true name. Appreciate the mention there Flybynite I’ll ask the question again when I pickup the car from Audi, I’ve had haldex pump fail on two previous cars so I know what that feels like and the traction control goes mental. Funny thing is I have a clear dash with no errors at the moment.

Regardless from what I’m reading here it does sound like they are just blaming the tyres but going on your point T1000 that the 8.5j does accept the 235 PS4s then I’m not sure of my angle there, how can I battle a techy from Audi it’s not like I have any place else to go I imagine he’ll stand by the point and the garage will back him.

My best point of call would be have the supplying VW garage take a look. It is a shame however that it’s 50miles away and I don’t fancy putting the car through a 100mile round trip, that box could be gone half way through the trip.

I’ll be on the phone tomorrow following up with the supplying garage to see what they have to say.

 

[flybynite]

VW had assured me that the Haldex had been serviced just before the sale. So most likely a year ago. Having listened to the Audi Cam again he refers to it as a Bevel box/transfer box and actually calls out the “slash” in the video which I noted as odd. Maybe that is its true name. Appreciate the mention there Flybynite I’ll ask the question again when I pickup the car from Audi, I’ve had haldex pump fail on two previous cars so I know what that feels like and the traction control goes mental. Funny thing is I have a clear dash with no errors at the moment.

I think he may be getting confused with the bigger Audis. RS3 has a Haldex clutch and a rear differential. Unless he is talking about the front which does have a bevel gear? If it is can't see tyres doing that either most likely no/low/bad oil

Regardless from what I’m reading here it does sound like they are just blaming the tyres but going on your point T1000 that the 8.5j does accept the 235 PS4s then I’m not sure of my angle there, how can I battle a techy from Audi it’s not like I have any place else to go I imagine he’ll stand by the point and the garage will back him.

As T1000 says 235 is industry accepted on an 8.5" wheel but it is not one of the combinations listed for the RS3. Notwithstanding they will have to explain how 1/2" extra width on the wheel will affect the drivetrain as it will be easy to demonstrate it does NOT affect the radius outside the limit laid down in the Audi ErWin manuals for Wheels and Tyres. They need to explain that bit in detail

 

[8YARWY]

VW had assured me that the Haldex had been serviced just before the sale. So most likely a year ago. Having listened to the Audi Cam again he refers to it as a Bevel box/transfer box and actually calls out the “slash” in the video which I noted as odd. Maybe that is its true name. Appreciate the mention there Flybynite I’ll ask the question again when I pickup the car from Audi, I’ve had haldex pump fail on two previous cars so I know what that feels like and the traction control goes mental. Funny thing is I have a clear dash with no errors at the moment.

Regardless from what I’m reading here it does sound like they are just blaming the tyres but going on your point T1000 that the 8.5j does accept the 235 PS4s then I’m not sure of my angle there, how can I battle a techy from Audi it’s not like I have any place else to go I imagine he’ll stand by the point and the garage will back him.

My best point of call would be have the supplying VW garage take a look. It is a shame however that it’s 50miles away and I don’t fancy putting the car through a 100mile round trip, that box could be gone half way through the trip.

I’ll be on the phone tomorrow following up with the supplying garage to see what they have to say.

Quite simple.
Pick up the phone / type an email.

Crux of this matter is you were sold, unbeknown to you I may add, a car with 8.5j front alloys with according to Audi the incorrect tyres in accordance to the 156 gazillion point check.

Have you any pictures of the car prior to the sale to you ? Usually they take pictures for the marketing.

All you want is an explanation of why this point has been missed and now why you are left in this position, which is none of your making.

Be firm and take no bull, ask to speak to head of business or the overall manager of the dealership you bought it at.




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[8YARWY]

VW had assured me that the Haldex had been serviced just before the sale. So most likely a year ago. Having listened to the Audi Cam again he refers to it as a Bevel box/transfer box and actually calls out the “slash” in the video which I noted as odd. Maybe that is its true name. Appreciate the mention there Flybynite I’ll ask the question again when I pickup the car from Audi, I’ve had haldex pump fail on two previous cars so I know what that feels like and the traction control goes mental. Funny thing is I have a clear dash with no errors at the moment.

Regardless from what I’m reading here it does sound like they are just blaming the tyres but going on your point T1000 that the 8.5j does accept the 235 PS4s then I’m not sure of my angle there, how can I battle a techy from Audi it’s not like I have any place else to go I imagine he’ll stand by the point and the garage will back him.

My best point of call would be have the supplying VW garage take a look. It is a shame however that it’s 50miles away and I don’t fancy putting the car through a 100mile round trip, that box could be gone half way through the trip.

I’ll be on the phone tomorrow following up with the supplying garage to see what they have to say.

Haldex is before the rear diff, bevel box is at the gearbox end and does as its title really, convert driveshaft motion into prop/cardan shaft motion via means of ‘bevelled’ gearing.

There is also a prop shaft bearing in the centre of the car.

Has the car any signs of a hard life before you bought it ? Shame you can’t access the launch counter just to see, maybe someone close to you can scan it to check launch counter.


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[randy4]

Cheers guys this is all really useful stuff and will be all of great value when fighting my case…if it gets to that. Hopefully not. I do actually have a photo of the front tyres on day of pickup as I was so chuffed about the size of the front discs I had to photo them (geeky I know) and send it to a mate…in said photo is clearly printed the tyre code. Luckily

 

[Terminator x]

Isn't the car covered by approved used for 12 months? Just deny changing the tyres and say it was bought like that from them, the truth of course.

TX.

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[randy4]

Isn't the car covered by approved used for 12 months? Just deny changing the tyres and say it was bought like that from them, the truth of course.

TX.

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Tyres were never changed only things I have done is replaced rear discs and pads with brembos and had roof wrapped black. Cosmetic interior bits but that’s it everything else is untouched since the approved used. Didn’t realise the approved used covered 12months but that is another question if it comes to that.

Getting frustrated with VW now though (original used supplier) we’re coming up to 2 weeks and I still have the car sat in my garage and undriveable, awaiting collection. I’m going to have to go guns blazing tomorrow on the phone I think!

 

[wuta3]

Tyres were never changed only things I have done is replaced rear discs and pads with brembos and had roof wrapped black. Cosmetic interior bits but that’s it everything else is untouched since the approved used. Didn’t realise the approved used covered 12months but that is another question if it comes to that.

Getting frustrated with VW now though (original used supplier) we’re coming up to 2 weeks and I still have the car sat in my garage and undriveable, awaiting collection. I’m going to have to go guns blazing tomorrow on the phone I think!

Hang in there, they sold you the car with those tyres on. If they were not fit for purpose, then they should've changed them. If they're blaming the failure on the tyres, they're blaming themselves.

Hang in there. Don't let them wiggle out of it.

If they try and claim you changed the tyres, it is up to them to prove that. Which they can't because you didn't. Try and find original sales photos. They should still have them too, on file, showing the tyres sold with .... request them from the dealer.

This is all setting aside the fact that the tyres didn't contribute to the failure, something they'd have to prove too in order to negate the warranty on the car.

Get a solicitor to write a strongly worded letter and threaten to take it to court. Warranty is warranty.

 

[Jcbmally]

Don’t forget to contact the Motir Ombudsman regarding your issue/their claim. They can be quite a useful service for matters like these.

 

[randy4]

So an update… my car has been off the road for 4 weeks now but some good news is that the car was sent back to the original dealership who then shifted it on a low loader to another Audi dealership within their group. It was then thoroughly checked over and the bevel box was found to have failed therefore Audi had to source the part and my warranty covered the install. There was no connection between the tyres and the failure of the bevel gear.

So lesson learnt here for me, Audi will find any way to make money on your car unless you bought the car from said garage therefore they should have some customer loyalty. Warranties cannot be void unless Audi UK have said otherwise or the provider has said so, no other garage can void your warranty on their say. These are obvious lessons but I found myself believing the statements said by the “professionals” which is sad to say was a mistake and you must always chase and follow-up with another opinion! It is a shame it has to be like this on a premium brand.

 

[8YARWY]

So an update… my car has been off the road for 4 weeks now but some good news is that the car was sent back to the original dealership who then shifted it on a low loader to another Audi dealership within their group. It was then thoroughly checked over and the bevel box was found to have failed therefore Audi had to source the part and my warranty covered the install. There was no connection between the tyres and the failure of the bevel gear.

So lesson learnt here for me, Audi will find any way to make money on your car unless you bought the car from said garage therefore they should have some customer loyalty. Warranties cannot be void unless Audi UK have said otherwise or the provider has said so, no other garage can void your warranty on their say. These are obvious lessons but I found myself believing the statements said by the “professionals” which is sad to say was a mistake and you must always chase and follow-up with another opinion! It is a shame it has to be like this on a premium brand.

But the main thing was you stuck to your guns.


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[Sequence]

Glad to hear it has been resolved, a shame it was so hard as always.

 

[jebusRS]

excellent news it was sorted in your favour.

Pish poor that you had to force it out of them though.

 

[jimojameso]

Happy days. Glad you got it sorted

 

[randy4]

Safely returned and in working order!

 

[DW81]

Nice to hear a happy ending

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