Traction control / ESP problem

[kaspar]

i recently bought a pfl rs3 from 2016.

I’m loving the car, a big difference from my s3 8p.

Im gonna try and explain the best way I can.

I noticed straight away when I drove my car that something was wrong. When accelerating the ESP light flashes, especially when I floor it. Feels like the car is only using 40-50% of its power, when the ESP is flashing. And that’s in all gears from 1st to 5th. Douring accelration it pulls to either side as well, like the car won’t go straight. This is with the ESP on. As soon as I turn ESP off the car pulls and accelerates like it should.

My first thought was the Haldex pump problem, which I know is a known issue.

My car is at Audi atm. They still haven’t figured out whats wrong.

Does this sound like the Haldex problem?

 

[Marshy]

Sounds fairly identical to the symptoms I had when the haldex pump failed on my 8P RS3.
The car was practically undriveable if pushing on.

 

[AudiNutta]

Do you get any wheel spin? If you do and it’s pulling to the side, probably a Haldex pump issue.

These cars are known to have over sensitive TC systems, the FL more than the PFL. It kicks in and pulls back power at very low speeds /rpm, putting the TC into sport fixes it.

Your experience of pulling to the side is a strange one, unless your tracking is out and putting the power down is highlighting that. No bad torque steer that I’ve noticed, both hands should be on the wheel anyway and if it’s still snatching then I’d be concerned.

 

[kaspar]

I got my car back a few hours ago.

They calibrated a few things, which has helped a lot. The TC still flashes in some situations. But now I can floor it and it keeps pulling, which is great.

No wheel spin afaik, they ran a bunch of tests on all the car systems, no faults.

TC still flashes if I downshift into 2nd gear at 4-5000 rpm, and floor it. Is that normal? Like is it supposed to do that?

Also I have booked a remap, just a stage 1. Honestly not sure what to expect if TC already going crazy stock.

I questioned the Haldex, they told me nothing was wrong.

 

[AudiNutta]

I got my car back a few hours ago.

They calibrated a few things, which has helped a lot. The TC still flashes in some situations. But now I can floor it and it keeps pulling, which is great.

No wheel spin afaik, they ran a bunch of tests on all the car systems, no faults.

TC still flashes if I downshift into 2nd gear at 4-5000 rpm, and floor it. Is that normal? Like is it supposed to do that?

Also I have booked a remap, just a stage 1. Honestly not sure what to expect if TC already going crazy stock.

I questioned the Haldex, they told me nothing was wrong.

Hmm, can’t say I’ve had much of a traction control light at high revs if on a good service. I normally get mine at around 2000rpm when there is literally no chance of spin in a high gear. Only if there are humps and bumps in the road will I ever see it at high revs but rare.

I’d postpone your stage 1 map and get this sorted before, you won’t have a leg to stand on with a map. Go and drive another one somewhere and then compare.

 

[D0C]

Revo asked me if I’d had any TC issues on my TT which I said I’d had none. I asked why they asked and they said they’d had quite a few queries and had been investigating. They seemed to think it was faulty wheel position sensors or something along those lines. I think they are all linked to the stability control systems.

 

[DW81]

I got my car back a few hours ago.

They calibrated a few things, which has helped a lot. The TC still flashes in some situations. But now I can floor it and it keeps pulling, which is great.

No wheel spin afaik, they ran a bunch of tests on all the car systems, no faults.

TC still flashes if I downshift into 2nd gear at 4-5000 rpm, and floor it. Is that normal? Like is it supposed to do that?

Also I have booked a remap, just a stage 1. Honestly not sure what to expect if TC already going crazy stock.

I questioned the Haldex, they told me nothing was wrong.

Sounds like the fault as not be sorted then, if you are still getting the traction control light flashing, can not say I have ever had this.

 

[Alex L]

Ours has the same issue but the t/c flashes under very low throttle inputs, however this problem is intermittent. The only way to get full power is to turn the t/c off. I’ve had an Audi tech out who typically couldn’t replicate the issue, he plugged the car in and was looking at the wheel speed sensors and nothing looked untoward.

 

[AudiNutta]

Ours has the same issue but the t/c flashes under very low throttle inputs, however this problem is intermittent. The only way to get full power is to turn the t/c off. I’ve had an Audi tech out who typically couldn’t replicate the issue, he plugged the car in and was looking at the wheel speed sensors and nothing looked untoward.

Same here, at low revs when there really is no chance of there ever being slip.

I’ve only ever spun up all 4 wheels on 3/4 occasions in the shopping wet in 1st gear. Turn the TC off, it’s never unsettled. If I plan on a stint of foot down driving I just stuck the TC into sport, issue no more.

 

[kaspar]

After driving the car again today, it definitely feels different from before Audi did their calibration.

The car is 37 months old, and I’m pretty sure it haven’t had an Haldex service, the intervals are every 3 years right?

 

[AudiNutta]

After driving the car again today, it definitely feels different from before Audi did their calibration.

The car is 37 months old, and I’m pretty sure it haven’t had an Haldex service, the intervals are every 3 years right?

Every 3 years yes but strongly advisable to do it before because they get in a bad way on some cars.

 

[kaspar]

Every 3 years yes but strongly advisable to do it before because they get in a bad way on some cars.

Could a Haldex service have any effect on the TC? Or the car behaving odd at times

 

[AudiNutta]

Could a Haldex service have any effect on the TC? Or the car behaving odd at times

Yes definitely, if your filter is clogged then it could restrict the pump and cause issues with the clutch engaging meaning FWD only.

It’s about £110 at the dealer, very cheap compared to other items but the dealers DONT clean the filters which is where the main issue lies. So either agree with a dealer they will clean the filter (can’t be replaced and I’d want photo evidence, just make the excuse you want to see the condition yourself). Or even better get a trusted independent to do it if you know one, but it is part of the service schedule at 3 years so need to use all genuine parts for any warranty. I’d get it in ASAP not to have any warranty issues.

Our local dealer told us to not mess around with any gearbox oil changes and to always get them done before the interval or at worst bang on.

People have reported theirs to be in a very bad way at the 3 years. My independent saw a 3 year old Golf that was FWD only, the filter was blocked.. filter clean and change the 0.7/0.8L of oil and back to normal.

 

[kaspar]

I’m sure the Haldex / oil and filter, has remained untouched, given that I bought the car when it was 3 years old. I’ll give my independent a ring

 

[AudiNutta]

I’m sure the Haldex / oil and filter, has remained untouched, given that I bought the car when it was 3 years old. I’ll give my independent a ring

Yes highly recommend having it done and would be interesting to see a photo of your filter. Mine was very clear, but a lot have been totally clogged and if yours is nearly there it certainly wouldn’t help with traction.

See the below thread and see what they can look like, after the last few posts it is clear I was very lucky with mine... woohooo seems one of my parts isn’t a Friday afternoon one ;-) Touches all wood...

https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/haldex-pump-clean-and-oil-change.374483/

 

[kaspar]

Yes highly recommend having it done and would be interesting to see a photo of your filter. Mine was very clear, but a lot have been totally clogged and if yours is nearly there it certainly wouldn’t help with traction.

See the below thread and see what they can look like, after the last few posts it is clear I was very lucky with mine... woohooo seems one of my parts isn’t a Friday afternoon one ;-) Touches all wood...

https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/haldex-pump-clean-and-oil-change.374483/

Oh wow, your filter looks really clean compared to the others

 

[AudiNutta]

Oh wow, your filter looks really clean compared to the others

I know haha, I don’t know why because I’ve done quite a few miles at 17k...

But helps show you what they can or should be like, will be interesting to get some feedback from you.

 

[kaspar]

I know haha, I don’t know why because I’ve done quite a few miles at 17k...

But helps show you what they can or should be like, will be interesting to get some feedback from you.

Can’t wait to see how mine looks. I’ll report back asap

 

[DW81]

This was my filter when I changed the haldex oil @38k. Spotless

 

[D0C]

View attachment 182544
This was my filter when I changed the haldex oil @38k. Spotless

Is changing the haldex oil a simple job? Or one that an Audi apprentice could balls up? It’s the gearbox and haldex that I worry about failing more than the engine!

 

[DW81]

Hi Doc, I found both the stronic and haldex oil changes quite a straightforward affair mate.
I purchased two pumps one from sealey on T800’s recommendation for the stronic oil. And one from draper for the haldex oil.
The draper one as an angled spout as the haldex fill point is up at the very top of the unit so makes filing it very easy to do.
You just have to fill it up until oil seeps out the fill point. Refit plug start the car (this was on axel stands) and cycle through to drive and allow the rear hubs to rotate.
Oil will then be worked back into the system and repeat until the oil starts to spill out from the fill point after about 3/4 top ups.
If memory serves me correctly this used about 900ml of oil mate.
Hope this helps
I was helped out on this by an 8p owner who also allowed me to use his garage.

 

[T-800]

Did mine at 14k

Very clean

 

[kaspar]

Looks great!

I did some pulls today in full manuel mode, and the TC flashes like crazy, combined with the 40-50% reduced acceleration. With TC turned off it drives like it should.

In drive / sport the car drives like it should, with the occasional TC flash.

Seems like manuel mode is a no go, lol. At least with TC on

 

[AudiNutta]

Looks great!

I did some pulls today in full manuel mode, and the TC flashes like crazy, combined with the 40-50% reduced acceleration. With TC turned off it drives like it should.

In drive / sport the car drives like it should, with the occasional TC flash.

Seems like manuel mode is a no go, lol. At least with TC on

Hmm it does sound over sensitive, it is pretty rare and in lower power situations when most of us see the TC light, when it’s unwarranted.

Have to see what it’s like after the Haldex oil change.

 

[DW81]

My tc would pop up when either I went over speed bumps to quickly etc. Now it’s another button that gets pressed in the start up stage.
Always drive in the manual mode and no more TC issues.
Car is 2015 rs with R01 spec pzeros

 

[kaspar]

My tc would pop up when either I went over speed bumps to quickly etc. Now it’s another button that gets pressed in the start up stage.
Always drive in the manual mode and no more TC issues.
Car is 2015 rs with R01 spec pzeros

Yep same here. With Tc off, it really wakes up the car.

I have the staggered setup with the Pzeros. I think they are the stock ones that came with the car. There’s still a good amount of thread left. Even after 14k miles

 

[Jimmgc51]

Have you checked you tyre pressures?

My TC would flash going quick round light bends and turning into streets.

Always thought it was overly sensitive then I checked my tyre pressures. Fronts were 31psi, they should be 42psi

Also the reason why pot holes sounded so bad and likely why I had a blow out.

Anyway up to 39psi now and TC flash has gone..

 

[kaspar]

Have you checked you tyre pressures?

My TC would flash going quick round light bends and turning into streets.

Always thought it was overly sensitive then I checked my tyre pressures. Fronts were 31psi, they should be 42psi

Also the reason why pot holes sounded so bad and likely why I had a blow out.

Anyway up to 39psi now and TC flash has gone..

I haven’t checked for a few weeks, but the tc issue was there before and after. I’ll check next time

 

[kaspar]

I got the stage 1 done, including Haldex oil change and the active valve control.. night and day difference from stock - stage 1

Total different car

I noticed that my left front tire was not the same as the other 3, it was a p zero, but not the Audi rs3 specific one.

Could that by any chance do something with the esp?

 

[AudiNutta]

I got the stage 1 done, including Haldex oil change and the active valve control.. night and day difference from stock - stage 1

Total different car

I noticed that my left front tire was not the same as the other 3, it was a p zero, but not the Audi rs3 specific one.

Could that by any chance do something with the esp?

Yes absolutely that could affect it, get it switched out but keep in mind you need to keep equal tread depths on the same axel to within 1/2mm Max.

You are brave getting a map when you had an unresolved issue to start with, haha.

What sort of state was the Haldex in?

 

[kaspar]

Car pulls like it should, esp flashing and power cutback is only when I drive in manuel, and floor it in 2nd - 3rd gear.

There’s still I’d say 4-5mm thread left on all fours..

I’m probably gonna wait with replacing them. Unless it’s dangerous in any way

Haldex looked fine

 

[AudiNutta]

Car pulls like it should, esp flashing and power cutback is only when I drive in manuel, and floor it in 2nd - 3rd gear.

There’s still I’d say 4-5mm thread left on all fours..

I’m probably gonna wait with replacing them. Unless it’s dangerous in any way

Haldex looked fine

That’s great glad to hear it!!

It isn’t dangerous as such but it is illegal to have a mismatched tread pattern on the same axel, which this would be. With 4-5mm ideally you could do with changing the pair not to damage the gearbox / upset the Quattro even further.

Can always sell the old one as individual tyres to recoup some money, probably worth £50 each on eBay.

 

[Marshy]

That’s great glad to hear it!!

It isn’t dangerous as such but it is illegal to have a mismatched tread pattern on the same axel, which this would be. With 4-5mm ideally you could do with changing the pair not to damage the gearbox / upset the Quattro even further.

Can always sell the old one as individual tyres to recoup some money, probably worth £50 each on eBay.

Not illegal to have different tread patterns on the same axle just bad practice.
Although from the comment I read before I understood it to be the same make of tyre just not got the Audi approved code R01 or R02.
That’s how I interpreted it anyway

 

[Essex-man]

I have only had my 8 me a week and already experienced the TC issues unless I put the car in TC sport or off completely.

Having done a fair bit of research it seems really common.

I’m certainly interested in the calibration - I shall speak with Audi about that as has a years warranty. Car has done 31k Miles so May get the fluid change done fairly soon to.

Would that just be the Haldex or Haldex and gearbox??

 

[AudiNutta]

Not illegal to have different tread patterns on the same axle just bad practice.
Although from the comment I read before I understood it to be the same make of tyre just not got the Audi approved code R01 or R02.
That’s how I interpreted it anyway

Are you sure? I was always informed that you had to have matching tyres on the same axel, car will have mixed abilities on each wheel.

Correct yes, there are loads of variants of the Pirelli P-Zero, AO, RO1, RO2 and that’s just the ones approved for the MQB cars. The AO is a totally different tread pattern to the RO1/2 as well however. The tread pattern on RO1/2 are specific to that fitment only, the change when it moved to RO2 was the new PZ4 compound. I see main dealers fitting generic P-Zero’s all the time and it’s wrong, I’d never agree to buy a car approved like it.. they aren’t the right tyres.

https://www.protyre.co.uk/news/may-...ame-axle-–-it’s-dangerous,-and-can-be-illegal

 

[AudiNutta]

I have only had my 8 me a week and already experienced the TC issues unless I put the car in TC sport or off completely.

Having done a fair bit of research it seems really common.

I’m certainly interested in the calibration - I shall speak with Audi about that as has a years warranty. Car has done 31k Miles so May get the fluid change done fairly soon to.

Would that just be the Haldex or Haldex and gearbox??

It would just be Haldex, main dealers charge around £110 for this service especially if you ask for discount. Make sure you specifically tell them they have to clean the filter too, could be a waste of time otherwise.

The S Tronic (gearbox) service is due at 38k, closer to £200 to get done.

 

[kaspar]

Illegal? Man..

I’ll contact the dealer tomorrow.. why would anyone put a different tire on, makes no sense lol.

Yeah I’ll consider changing the fronts if that’s the case

 

[kaspar]

Not illegal to have different tread patterns on the same axle just bad practice.
Although from the comment I read before I understood it to be the same make of tyre just not got the Audi approved code R01 or R02.
That’s how I interpreted it anyway

Yep exactly

 

[Essex-man]

It would just be Haldex, main dealers charge around £110 for this service especially if you ask for discount. Make sure you specifically tell them they have to clean the filter too, could be a waste of time otherwise.

The S Tronic (gearbox) service is due at 38k, closer to £200 to get done.

Thank you

 

[Marshy]

Are you sure? I was always informed that you had to have matching tyres on the same axel, car will have mixed abilities on each wheel.

Correct yes, there are loads of variants of the Pirelli P-Zero, AO, RO1, RO2 and that’s just the ones approved for the MQB cars. The AO is a totally different tread pattern to the RO1/2 as well however. The tread pattern on RO1/2 are specific to that fitment only, the change when it moved to RO2 was the new PZ4 compound. I see main dealers fitting generic P-Zero’s all the time and it’s wrong, I’d never agree to buy a car approved like it.. they aren’t the right tyres.

https://www.protyre.co.uk/news/may-...ame-axle-–-it’s-dangerous,-and-can-be-illegal

Yeah mate goes back to all those years ago when they done an advert of a car crashing because it had cross ply and radial tyres on the same axle.
As far as I’m aware you can’t buy cross ply tyres anymore and they’re all radial tyres.
The rest of it is true regarding unpredictable handling etc with different brands on the same axle