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Track/Hillclimb A3 1.8t

Nick_sheep Mar 26, 2014

  1. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    Hi guys very new on here,
    we are making a fully dedicated track car and hill climb car.
    I know you have probably seen this a few hundred times but it will be a nice log for me to look back at.
    I will be trying to update this as much as possible but bare with me.
    This build is inspired by seeing prawns track car on YouTube then further into seeing alot of you other guys ripping around the tracks..
    Luckily I was given an a3 by my boss and decided what have I got to lose by making it the best handling fastest a3 over here (Guernsey)
    We will be starting of by doing the usual coilovers poly bushes and anti roll bars to start.
    Then progressing onto limited slip diff, track tires and eventually slicks.
    We are also planning on getting around 350bhp.
    One of the problems living in Guernsey is no dyno or remapping places. So I will be visiting the UK to get that sorted so obviously I'm going to try and do all power upgrades at the same time if possible.
    But to start handling is top of out list so any do's and dont's would be greatly appreciated.
    What to stay clear of and which mods are much better then others.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
    jojo, kwistof, Prawn and 1 other person like this.
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  3. Sandra

    Sandra Administrator Staff Member Administrator Platinum Supporter Audi Main Dealer

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    Hi, welcome to audi-sport.net. Sounds like a nice project you have on the cards. You will get plenty of ideas and suggestions on here and make sure you keep the wallet handy, we are exceptional and helping you part with your hard earned money, lol. Enjoy the forum. :) x
     
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  4. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    Thanks Sandra. Each time I look at parts for it my wallet feels lighter.
     
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  5. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    uploadfromtaptalk1395828683225.jpg
     
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  6. Sandra

    Sandra Administrator Staff Member Administrator Platinum Supporter Audi Main Dealer

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    Lol, have a look through our classifieds section, there is usually a good amount of 8L models breaking, try save your wallet a little. Im looking forward to your build thread. :) x
     
  7. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Check out Prawn's track car build thread mate... I suspect this will be a source of almost all the info you will ever need lol :)

    <tuffty/>
     
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  8. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Wooooohooooo!!!!!!! I've got company!

    Great to see someone else starting a track car build mate :)

    If there's anything I can help with along the way just give me a shout :)

    Looking forward to seeing this progress

    :racer:
     
  9. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    Yeah will do glad that so many people are as excited as we are about it. I have read a lot of your thread prawn just trying to filter out which parts and mods are the ones to go straight to. We are planning on going for gaz gold coilovers and powerflex black bushes. Or should I just fork out a bit more and go for the kw variant 3's?
     
  10. newbster

    newbster Registered User

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    i know its boring, but first thing to set is your budget, and allocate it to the varous parts, engine, suspension, etc

    then go back and double it :)

    didn't see brakes in your list, a definite upgrade needed there

    above all, enjoy!!!
     
  11. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    I will try and post up a schedule of work to be done tonight so you guys have an idea of what I'm planning and when. Any feedback on parts or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Brakes won't be skimped on and will be upgraded heavily before power gets more. Hopefully floating discs etc. Will be routing some cooling there before hand anyway.
     
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  13. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    it's really hard to know where to start on something like this.

    As we've developed ours over about 3 years we've done things in stages, but if I were to start from scratch now I'd do everything right the first time.

    We felt that as we upped the chassis capability, the car felt slower simply because it the chassis was able to deal with the power, then as we upped the power further it showed up flaws in the chassis and handling.

    If i had one bit of advise though, it's BRAKES! brakes are absolutely everything on one of these and have been our biggest issue.

    Also, largely, the VAG parts bin is your friend. LCR running gear up front transforms the car, wishbones, hubs, steering rack, arb, rear brakes etc, it's well worth finding an LCR and robbing it of it's good parts.

    Another thing I'd suggest, before you get too far involved in transmission stuff, is to consider converting to 6 speed before buying a diff. if you're starting from scratch needing a diff, and clutch / flywheel setup, it won't cost THAT much more to go 6 speed, and it's WELL worth it as the 5 speeds are truly ****.
     
  14. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    Whats up with the 02J?
    Ratios too low for acceleration or is it too weak?
     
  15. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    well, I broke 7 of them, before finally removing my 8th and selling it whilst it was still whole!

    5 of those were broken with just a k03S too!

    With the lower power and big punchy torque of a ko3S, the 5 speed long ratios really seemed to work well, as you had a short band of torque, it pulled the tall ratios well.

    With more power and a more linear delivery, it just made the 5 speed ratios feel long and tiresome, and made the car feel lazy. 3rd gear for example would do 118mph

    I changed to 6 speed mainly for strength reasons, but I'm absolutely loving the shorter gearing also, it's really made the car far more lively.

    If I'd have known what I know now I think i'd have saved a LOT of money, but you need to try these things to find out, and hopefully others can benefit from what I've found over the last 4 years and build something really decent straight from the off.
     
    Mrharris2 and Nick_sheep like this.
  16. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    That is exactly what I am trying to do. Learn from everyone's trial and errors then eventually get to the point when people are learning from my trials or mistakes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  17. Sandra

    Sandra Administrator Staff Member Administrator Platinum Supporter Audi Main Dealer

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    This is going to be another awesome build. Nick's (prawns) build is awesome and i still read it regular as i subscribed for updates which i have now done for this one. Looking forward to reading more. :) x
     
  18. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    Nice to know, I'm guessing you swapped in the 02M box. I've read online that people still shear the teeth off 3rd gear on the 02M box but it seems to happen less often than on the 02J.
     
  19. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I think the 02M wins simply because it's a good 15 years newer by design!

    Some of the internals in the 02j are still 02A stamped and shared with a mk2 golf from the mid 80's!

    I stripped 2nd off an 02J, and 3rd off another. I blew the rivets on 2 standard diffs, and also blew the bolts on 2 further quaife diffs, and destroyed one casing with a run away CV joint cutting straight through the casing and mashing the teeth inside also.

    All in all, a very bad experience with 02J's for me.

    They're also VERY slow to shift at higher revs, the synchros just don't keep up well at all when you start revving them past 6k and it's REALLY frustrating having to wait what feels like ages before you can get a gear.
     
  20. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    This is exactly the kind of info I need. Save my spending a small fortune blowing up gearboxes. Cheers for your help in the last few hours alone. Will be trying to update as much as possible, Timmay96 might also update this thread every now and then too, no doubt he will be picking all your brains for info too.
     
  21. newbster

    newbster Registered User

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  22. Timmy96

    Timmy96 Timmy

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    I like the look of that alot.
     
  23. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    Probably cost a house deposit tho I suspect. Would love one tho. Has anyone got one?
     
  24. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I think the KAPs gearbox is around £11000, although you tax dodgers on the island would obviously save 20% on that :laugh:
     
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  25. Timmy96

    Timmy96 Timmy

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    Wow that is alot of money, i'm sure the excessive cost of postage would balance it out. :)
     
  26. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    Is our 35 mph speed limit not punishment enough for not paying VAT? :sob:
     
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  27. Rice

    Rice Registered User

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    Jealous!! I'd love to build a car like this. Going to keep my eye on this one :)!
     
  28. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    i find this with the O2M hmmmm
     
  29. MIGGZ

    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

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    whoo hoo another track car for inspiration! and i love hill climbs! good luck with the build dude, keeping a close eye on this!

    SUBSCRIBED
     
  30. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    I will post some videos of us doing the charity hillclimb last year in my dad's kit car tomorrow night and put a link on here for anyone interested in seeing what the Audi is going to be tackling .
     
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  31. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    You're just striving for perfection superK :laugh:

    Having driven a LOAD of 02J and 02M cars, the 02J is miles slower to change gear. below 6k it's not really an issue, but above 6k it really does hold the car back on a synchro box.

    The 02M is much faster to change generally, but you do run the risk of bending selector forks if you're too aggressive with it (Stacey :laugh: ), so i still treat mine fairly carefully!
     
    StaceyS3, Pubemammal and Airs like this.
  32. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    Where can you go after the 02m? Without going sequential.
     
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  34. Sandra

    Sandra Administrator Staff Member Administrator Platinum Supporter Audi Main Dealer

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    Subscribed
     
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  35. kwistof

    kwistof South East Events Moderator

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    A custom made straight cut box :eyebrows:
     
  36. Nick_sheep

    Nick_sheep All The Gears But No Ideas

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    Might as well go sequential if going for a straight cut box anyway. Maybe when I get a sponsership from Red bull lol (other energy drinks are available)
     
  37. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    SQS gearset, somewhere around £3k I believe.
     
  38. kwistof

    kwistof South East Events Moderator

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  39. Timmy96

    Timmy96 Timmy

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    Hi everyone i have a few questions on parts for our hillclimb car.

    First of all would anyone recommend Gaz Gold coilovers? or would it be worth spending an extra few pounds on kw variant 2's or 3's, bearing in mind that we want to get this right first time.

    Second, if we were to get s3 wishbones, would it be worth getting the hubs and driveshafts etc on top of that?

    Lastly does anyone know the auxiliary belt size once the air con is removed?

    Thanks
     
  40. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Evening Timmy :)

    Gaz Gold coilovers are said to be pretty good, but I'd say it depends on how serious you intend to get with the car. if you're looking to compete with it, I'd imagine the adjustability of the KW's would be a win, with the ability to fine tune the handling to the exact balance you want. With the GAZ, if you found it too crashy under braking, or too stiff at the rear for example, there's not a lot you could do about it.

    The KW's are adjustable for rebound and compression, so you really can fine tune them to be exactly what you want, but like everything, this comes at a cost.

    As for the wishbones, the arms themselves don't actually do THAT much. they give you a little more camber adjustment, up to around 1.6 degrees neg on stock top mounts, and a bit more caster, around 7 degrees with stock bushes and topmounts.

    The big difference comes from the hubs though. They are considerably longer between the wheel centre and the lower ball joint, which flattens the wishbones and raises up the roll centre which is definitely preferable. Also, when combined with the hubs, the camber curve as the suspension moves through it's travel is considerably better, staying negative the whole way, where with the stock arms/hubs it goes positive in places on the curve. There's a fair bit of info on vortex about camber curves with different wishbones.

    The other advantage of fitting the hubs and rack is the steering arm position.

    On the stock A3 hubs, the steering arms connect on top of the steering arm on the hub, so when you lower the car you end up with quite sharp angles on the track rods which cause exaggerated bump steer and tram lining.

    The S3/tt/lcr/r32 arms are different lengths, with a different track rod end, and connect under the arms on the hubs (which are also a different profile), so you don't get any of the same bump steer issues.

    I know it's a lot of money, but if you're setting out to build it right from the off, and want a decent competitive car car that's great to drive, I'd really advise a complete LCR front end setup, wishbones, hubs, steering rack, arb type setup, 6 spd box, shafts etc etc.

    it'll be worth it on the long run.

    Also, when poly bushing, be sure to use the caster eccentric offset bushes to gain as much as possible so you're starting from a good base line when fine tuning the geo.

    If you want some adjustable top mounts, I can highly recommend Silver Project in poland for some very nicely made adjustable pillowball bearing top mounts:

    Camber Plates Golf MK4 , SEAT LEON , AUDI A3 - CAMBER CASTER | eBay

    If you buy a set, please tell them i sent you :racer: does me good :laugh:

    As for the aux belt, I simply asked for an aux belt for a non aircon 98 golf gti-t
     
  41. Timmy96

    Timmy96 Timmy

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    Thanks Prawn

    We thought the Kw's would be better for adjustment especially with the hillclimb, just nice to confirm they are the right choice.

    I see that all the Lcr front setup is crucial to making the build good so will definitely invest in it, i also like the sound of those adjustable top mounts alot.

    Now i know the belt size i can remove the hefty air con, which will also make the wiring loom more accessible for slimming down.

    Lastly what arb's would you recommend? (front and rear)
     
  42. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Up front I run a 22mm eibach adjustable bar. On the rear I run a neuspeed 'race' 32mm hollow bar on a softish setting. It's no stiffer than the 28mm neuspeed bar, but being hollow it's half the weight :)

    Id definitely advise a 28mm adjustable rear bar. If you had a 25 you'd only really have the option of the stiffest setting. By getting a 28mm bar you can start on the softest and tweak it to suit your needs.
     
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  43. Timmy96

    Timmy96 Timmy

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    Would you say going Powerflex black series bushes all round would be a good idea? seeing as it will be a dedicated Hillclimb/track car.
     

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