Too much rear toe in?? .... Car has 4wheel steer?!

[miltybilty]

Hi,

Just got an alignment yesterday and my car actually seems to drive worse after the alignment. The rear wobbles and waggles around well driving, especially on certain roads.

Bumps cause the rear to jump to the left and the right. Fright!!

It is heavily toed in an is done to spec apparently .... I have checked and confirmed that the rear wheels are towing in.

Looks fine .... Other than the right rear wheel is a but more inboard but it's always been that way.

Anyway the car doesn't seem safe to drive .... Does it have too much toe in??

Perhaps it's needs closer to 0.0 ??

Help please.

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[miltybilty]

Bump because this is my daily and does not feel safe.

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[samuelh_888]

Take it somewhere else to be checked.

 

[Keram]

You should have got papers with alignment angles before and after. Check the differences.
And usually with more rear toe in car should be more stable, so maybe their machine made a mistake or worker damaged suspension bushes?

 

[miltybilty]

Take it somewhere else to be checked.

Gonna hafta ....

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[miltybilty]

You should have got papers with alignment angles before and after. Check the differences.
And usually with more rear toe in car should be more stable, so maybe their machine made a mistake or worker damaged suspension bushes?

I did .... Seems like everything makes sense ....

The alignment seems good ....

The biggest thing I'm having is side to side sway over bumps .... And sometimes squiggly rear .... For no reason.

It doesn't seem to be the dampers.
I've changed them to check.

Think it's the bushings?

What about sway bars? I have h&r .... Would these cause issues .... Say if one endlink is messed ?

I just can't seem to figure this out ....

I've checked everything and everything seems tight.

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[Keram]

When I had really loose rear, moving side to side, even at low speeds then I had one of the bushings shot.
After more "aggressive" alignment done I felt my rear different but that was at bit higher speeds.
It must be something really bad if you feel it bad even at city speeds....

 

[miltybilty]

When I had really loose rear, moving side to side, even at low speeds then I had one of the bushings shot.
After more "aggressive" alignment done I felt my rear different but that was at bit higher speeds.
It must be something really bad if you feel it bad even at city speeds....

Mainly does it over manhole covers at City speeds. Except this one part of slight uphill road. Then it's gets all odd like the rear end isn't attached.

It's more scary when I'm doing highway speeds and it starts to go side to side.

So you think I should check all the bushings??

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[Keram]

You can start even from the basics. Wheel bolts! Are they tight?
Every reputable alignment shop should start from checking your suspension only then adjusting, maybe you choose not the best guys, who knows...

 

[miltybilty]

You can start even from the basics. Wheel bolts! Are they tight?
Every reputable alignment shop should start from checking your suspension only then adjusting, maybe you choose not the best guys, who knows...

Yup they are .... Good good. All torqued.

Ya well I doubt they did ....

Although I do go to highly rated shops always.

Unfortunately, sometimes bushing problems can't be spotted.

What bushing went on yours that caused your rear end wander??

Only thing I haven't replaced is the upper control arm (bushings in it are original).

Now the outer control arm bushings seem odd .... Like the bolt won't go through properly .... They are poly race bushings.
So maybe they've deteriorated?

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[miltybilty]

Bump? .... I found this little blurb. See attached!

I'm guessing my bushings are done.

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[Keram]

What bushing went on yours that caused your rear end wander??

The one responsible for the toe! It's in a wishbone in front of rear axle.

 

[miltybilty]

The one responsible for the toe! It's in a wishbone in front of rear axle.

Ohhhhhh

But I have 034 rear toe arms.
There not even old. Maybe a year and a half it's been installed.

Is it perhaps my outer control arm bushing? It's poly and seems odd both side .... Like not very aligned.

Everything is new except the upper control arms .... Old old .... 194000km on the car soooo .... 120000 miles .... Would it created the rear wobble roll thing?

It's like all over the place on the highway.


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[miltybilty]

Bump!

Sorry but I really need to fix this issue Monday .... So if I know what the common bushing to go is.

I wouldn't think it's my toe arms cuz there 034 and not that old.

Thought?

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[nluk100]

I'd get it checked somewhere else if it wasn't like it before the alignment. Forget what the printout says - if the equipment isn't fitted / operated correctly then all the settings are possibly going to be out of whack.

 

[miltybilty]

I'd say it wasn't doing it as bad.

I wonder if I bumped something changing the suspension.

It definitely was doing the lurch before .... It's just got to a point that it's not really safe feeling.

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[miltybilty]

Okay bump.

Today I checked tire pressures .... Door placard says 39 front and 38 rear.

Rear was roughly 34-35 when I checked and front was roughly 32-34.

That enough to cause the weird AF handling??

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[samuelh_888]

Okay bump.

Today I checked tire pressures .... Door placard says 39 front and 38 rear.

Rear was roughly 34-35 when I checked and front was roughly 32-34.

That enough to cause the weird AF handling??

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Inflate them to 39/38 and try... Surely this would give you an answer quicker than the forum?

Any how - the handling has been fine until your initial alignment last week right? Can you refit stock parts and have re-aligned?

 

[miltybilty]

Inflate them to 39/38 and try... Surely this would give you an answer quicker than the forum?

Any how - the handling has been fine until your initial alignment last week right? Can you refit stock parts and have re-aligned?

Just going out on errands and will inflate them .....

Well the handling was crap before ....
Just no it's worse .... it's almost likes it's highlighted an underlying issue maybe

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[miltybilty]

Also .... Over manhole covers the whole rear end skips to the side ....

I'll give ya the scenario ....

Me driving along .... Purposely drives over manhole cover to evaluate state of cars health .... Right wheels only cuz it does it worse on that side.
I notice that the whole back of the car will skip a few inches to the right ....

So left it will skip left .... Not as vicious.

It's like extreme bump steer. On the rear.

Anyway I'm gonna take my car to a really good specialist and hope he's as good as his rep.

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[miltybilty]

Okay so I had a Professional alignment done yesterday .... If anything it's worse.

Crabs a bit sometimes.

Left slides out too.

The rear wheel steer is not just happening over bumps.

After I leave my house to go to work there's a slight incline up a hill and all the way up till the lights the tail of the car wags back and forth .... Very scary feeling.

Gonna swap on some different wheels and see if that changes anything.

Also would trailing arm bushings effect this? .... Some say not to using poly in trailing arm location which I unfortunately did .... Perhaps it's worn cuz I never serviced them.

Basically static alignment is good bad then out on the road things change for the worst. I bet if they checked the alignment now it would be out already.

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[Daveyonthemove]

Something is loose or worn out, it must be.
I had similar issues on a Fiesta once and it turned out that the shocks were ruined, leaking oil everywhere so I replaced all 4 and the issue went away.
I've also had a badly worn wheel bearing causing a crab like effect on a 3 series BMW.

IMO, get it on a ramp with a decent mechanic and get him to check over everything suspension and geometry related, and the wheel bearings should be checked at the same time. For the drastic effect you are experiencing, I'd be amazed if this wasn't something obvious and important that needs attention.

 

[miltybilty]

Something is loose or worn out, it must be.
I had similar issues on a Fiesta once and it turned out that the shocks were ruined, leaking oil everywhere so I replaced all 4 and the issue went away.
I've also had a badly worn wheel bearing causing a crab like effect on a 3 series BMW.

IMO, get it on a ramp with a decent mechanic and get him to check over everything suspension and geometry related, and the wheel bearings should be checked at the same time. For the drastic effect you are experiencing, I'd be amazed if this wasn't something obvious and important that needs attention.

Something for sure is worn.

Swapped rear wheels and it's still there.

Swapped shocks a week or so ago and it didn't change the issue.

Only things that are original that haven't been check is bearings and upper control arms ....

See the thing is .... I don't really know any competent mechanics .... Even my highly rated vw dealer couldn't find a melted fuse in the fuse box over an issue before.

Only competent mechanics I know, drink too much beer and take my car for a week and do nothing barely and say "well we've been really busy".

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[samuelh_888]

Can you list what you’ve actually done to the suspension? Do you still have the Golf shocks in it?

Why don’t you put all your stock parts back on and go from there...

 

[miltybilty]

Can you list what you’ve actually done to the suspension? Do you still have the Golf shocks in it?

Why don’t you put all your stock parts back on and go from there...

For the rear I've currently got:
-Stock A3 shocks and Springs.
-034 spherical endlinks.
-H&R 26mm.
-Powerflex race lower outer control arm bushings.
-Powerflex purple trailing arm bushings.
-Stock old old upper control arms.
-034 toe arms.
-newer lower control arms.

I think that's it.

The rear makes a terrible racket over bumps or drive-throughs .... could be the endlinks.








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[JimS3]

When you fitted the polly bushes on the rear did you grease them and tighten everything with the arms all at ride height / position?

Also that’s a stiff rear setup to be running with standard high mileage shocks. What spec are you running up front?

 

[miltybilty]

When you fitted the polly bushes on the rear did you grease them and tighten everything with the arms all at ride height / position?

Also that’s a stiff rear setup to be running with standard high mileage shocks. What spec are you running up front?

Yes it's all tightened the right way .... At ride height .... My mechanics greased them.

I don't think the rears that stiff .... I'm gonna soften it up some more by removing all of my poly bushings likely. I'm Not into excessive maintenance.

The shocks ride smoother than with the R shocks .... Same symptoms both times.

My mechanic told me today that it's my lateral links .... ODD .... Guess he's referring to my toe arms .... Gonna discuss with him as I'm sure there spherical .... Don't know why they would have deteriorated.

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[miltybilty]

Seems it's the 034 toe arms/lateral links.
For some reason the bushings on one of them weakened real bad.

Car seems to track straight now with almost no random wandering, although I think I'm still getting a bit of tramlining and a bit of rear skip to the side if one of the rear wheels hits a manhole cover. I do have the rear H&R bar on stiff though.

I'll keep y'all updated.



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