To Quattro or not to Quattro that is the question!

[PaulAr]

Paul
Are you still selling your Audi GTi then I am keeping my R32VR6 Audi

Yep mate, its still for sale, just reduced it to £17,495.

Maybe its the wrong badges putting people off


(honestly though, I just have reduced it today...:sign_plug: Tempted?....)

 

[tcardio]

Your are winding me up right ?


quattro is a generic term that AUDI uses to describe all of its 4wd drive cars. Its no more scientific than that.
Who just decided that S3s are 4 motion? Shall I take the quattro badges off then?

The SAAB 9.3 Turbo X uses Haldex, is that a 4 Motion too?

No, I'm not winding you up

These quotes are from the respective websites
Adaptable
The central element of the 4MOTION system is a multi-plate wet coupling (in an oil bath). It is called the Haldex coupling as it was developed together with Swedish systems partner Haldex who have worked with Volkswagen for many years. The Haldex coupling has the major advantage of being electronically controlled and having a very fast response. This allows it to work very effectively in conjunction with the anti-lock braking system (ABS), the traction control system (TCS), the electronic differential lock (EDL), and the electronic stability programme (ESP) - all these assistance systems are fitted as standard in the Passat.


Notable Torsen users
One of the most famous uses of Torsen differentials are in many of the various Audi quattro models, notably excluding the A3 & S3 and TT (which have transverse-mounted engines and use Haldex Traction 4WD systems).

Volkswagen wanted to separate the marketing to avoid confusion between transverse-mounted and longitudinal mounted engines. VW uses 4-motion and Audi Quattro even though the original terms were meant to define the difference between the engine types and the AWD platform chosen.

yes the Saab uses 4-motion

 

[PaulAr]

No, I'm not winding you up

These quotes are from the respective websites
Adaptable
The central element of the 4MOTION system is a multi-plate wet coupling (in an oil bath). It is called the Haldex coupling as it was developed together with Swedish systems partner Haldex who have worked with Volkswagen for many years. The Haldex coupling has the major advantage of being electronically controlled and having a very fast response. This allows it to work very effectively in conjunction with the anti-lock braking system (ABS), the traction control system (TCS), the electronic differential lock (EDL), and the electronic stability programme (ESP) - all these assistance systems are fitted as standard in the Passat.


Notable Torsen users
One of the most famous uses of Torsen differentials are in many of the various Audi quattro models, notably excluding the A3 & S3 and TT (which have transverse-mounted engines and use Haldex Traction 4WD systems).

Volkswagen wanted to separate the marketing to avoid confusion between transverse-mounted and longitudinal mounted engines. VW uses 4-motion and Audi Quattro even though the original terms were meant to define the difference between the engine types and the AWD platform chosen.

yes the Saab uses 4-motion

Ok, agree with all those facts.

But my point is that a 4wd AUDI is still a `quattro`, not a `4motion`. Regardless of the system used.
They are different names for different cars that are technically similar.

4 motion is a relatively modern term, it replaces `syncro`, and when VW were using the syncro handle Audi were still using quattro. Never has there been any drivetrain name sharing in the brand.

SEAT use `4`, Skoda `4x4`. etc. Same things different badge.

Much like double clutch AUDIs are called S Tronic and the VW equivalent is called DSG.
Different names for similar things.

Some Wiki shizzle here...

4motion is a registered trademark of Volkswagen AG, used exclusively on Volkswagen-branded automobiles which utilise four-wheel drive (4WD) systems. Volkswagen has previously used the term "Syncro" for its 4WD models.
Of the Volkswagen Group's other marques, the "quattro" nomenclature is used for 4WD Audi cars. Sister companies Škoda simply uses the nomenclature "4x4" after the model name, whereas SEAT merely uses "4".
None of the above trademarks are specific to any particular 4WD system or technology being employed. Generally, Volkswagen would use Haldex Traction clutch system on their transverse engined cars. For longitudinal engined cars, they would use a Torsen differential-based 4WD system instead.

The red text nails it really.

And the SAAB uses HALDEX, not 4 Motion.
4 Motion is a VW Trademark, nothing to do with SAAB.

Drive Review: 2008 Saab Turbo X - Haldex


Paul

 

[LWNY]

Mind as well call the new Lamborghini the Aventador 4 Motion, the Bughatti Veyron 4 Motion and Audi R8 the R8 Syncro since the first 2 has Haldex coupling and the last one has viscous coupling like the old VWs.

 

[audigeezA4]

hi people

New on here but i thought i would add my limited experience so far having just bought a 53 plate a4 2.5tdi 180 quattro sport saloon b6. I had a passat tdi sport before so comparisons to that really, I have to say the car is phenemonal in terms of oomph. esp 2nd and 3rd gears, more rare as there seems to be loads of a4's where i live, but not seen many quattro's, its a heavy car but is definately planted so gives you confidence, V6 sound puts a smile on my face every time, ok fuel is a bit of an issue but it is a v6 and you gotta enjoy the car- i also toyed with the idea of a newer B7 a4 tdi 170, but to be honest, i am glad i chose the older model quattro, time will tell if i did the right thing but so fary so goody!!

ps- i have loads of questions but for now just reading as many posts as possible to find answers- the chap who posted the faulty glove box issue= priceless!!! i have the same problem???lol!!

cheers all.

 

[PilotAudi]

Love the debate.... we'll be calling FWD A3's 'Crossovers' next. AKA Cars that look like they should be 4x4/Quattro/Syncros/ 4 Poohs.. sorry 4 Motions....

;-0

 

[tcardio]

Paular, humor me and the rest of the "quattro" A3ers and use vcds. Go to 22 awd and look at the component. It says haldex 4 motion. It does not say haldex quattro. You drive a 4 motion car. Nuff said

 

[paddy]

Paular, humor me and the rest of the "quattro" A3ers and use vcds. Go to 22 awd and look at the component. It says haldex 4 motion. It does not say haldex quattro. You drive a 4 motion car. Nuff said

My VCDS keeps giving me a fault code for glow plug heaters on my V6 petrol....I wouldn't take top much notice of marketing terms like 4 motion and quattro on VCDS.
You need to find the definition of Quattro and then ..if it doesn't apply to Audi take legal action. Personally i think my car has a 4 motion system giving me Quattro drive. If it doesn't then Audi have got it wrong...but that seems unlikely.

 

[ASHIHARA]

A3 with transverse engine have haldex;A4,A5,A6 and A8 with longitudinal engine have torsen.

 

[consilio]

I would find it difficult to go back to a FWD car now. For damp, wet or snowy conditions (so most of the time!) quattro is awesome

 

[aragorn]

Paular, humor me and the rest of the "quattro" A3ers and use vcds. Go to 22 awd and look at the component. It says haldex 4 motion. It does not say haldex quattro. You drive a 4 motion car. Nuff said

Listen carefully.

"quattro", "4 motion" and "syncro" are simply brand trademarks signifying the car has 4 wheel drive. They DO NOT specify a specific technology has been used.

B5 Passats were sold using the "4 Motion" badging, even though they have the same Torsen based system as a B5 A4. Similarly A3 and TT models use a haldex system, and are sold under the "quattro" brand.

The fact that the diagnostic interface may state "4motion" is irrelevant. All that tells you is that the controller is shared with a VW model, and happens to be programmed up with the VW branding rather than the Audi branding.

 

[kev1974]

I'm new to this forum and for me when I came to look for my newer Audi I wanted Quattro but also wanted the S-tronic box ( which I believed they do on the later models and also on the 3.2 lump ). So I was left trying to decide whether to go for the 2.0T FSi Manual Quattro or the 2.0T FSi DSG FWD.

In the end I went for the DSG FWD as it is a 06 plate - that was as far as my budget stretched but what is people's views on the newer Quattro with the S-tronic box? Was it circa 2009 when this model came out?

 

[audicruiser]

It came out on the facelift from MY09 (58plate cars). Not driven a 2.0T Quattro DSG but we have a 170TDi DSG so know how the box behaves. To be honest the DSG version of my car is probably very good (in my sig) but with the price of fuel now the 2.0T Quattro with DSG is quite a rare car.

 

[Matt_S]

The simple answer is drive both and see what you think. In my opinion unless you really push your car round the twisty stuff then FWD is plenty adequate for every day.
But the quattro is incredible, and in the diesel being able to carry that much speed would be a massive advantage, and with the pulling power as you exit your in for some fun times.
My FWD scrabbles a little in the dry if I push the smoke peddle to hard out of corners, but it's never caused me any real issues!

To end, I will be having quattro next! Wether it's the planned S3 or another diesel if circumstances change in the next year.

 

[Herbsta1c]

By Far - Quattro All the way!.

 

[Arnie]

+1 for quattro!

 

[148KPT]

For everyday use in all driving conditions, Quattro is my preference. Of course if you are just driving for fun in good conditions then RWD wins everytime

 

[S3 Dave]

There was a Stella Artois advert i remember stating "you wouldn't drink champagne from a tea-cup"

Audi without Quattro...........?? Horse without cart............!

What is this thread really about???

 

[kev1974]

S3 Dave, so your saying Audi without Quattro is ****e then???

 

[AndyC]

having had both, 90% of the time for normal driving I feel it makes little or no difference.

however I do like the fact i can pull away in the poor conditions with my S4 without wheel spin and through the bends on a bit of a "spirited" drive it does help pull you round the bends....

I would get quattro again, everytime.

 

[paddy]

S3 Dave, so your saying Audi without Quattro is ****e then???

No i don't think he is but its difficult to see a case where you would ever be better off without it.

 

[kev1974]

Thanks, but I love the s-tronic but my budget wouldn't stretch to a 2.0 T FSi Quattro with s-tronic as 'audicruiser' said it was 2008 when this came out, mine is an 06 plate FWD.

 

[PilotAudi]

There was a Stella Artois advert i remember stating "you wouldn't drink champagne from a tea-cup"

Audi without Quattro...........?? Horse without cart............!

What is this thread really about???

I agree . Audi without Quattro is not where I want to be . The VW Golf is a great car. FWD Audis add a better interior... Quattro adds AUDI.. OOOO ..

But if you can't afford Quattro go FWD until you can....

 

[Ads]

No i don't think he is but its difficult to see a case where you would ever be better off without it.

...in any situation when the Quattro system isn't driving all four wheels. e.g. rolling acceleration, normal cornering, etc.

I'll try and find the video, but I was surprised how much Quattro slowed rolling acceleration compared to an identical engined FWD model.
The quattro's take off from standstill was pretty impressive though.

 

[paddy]

Like the new picture Ads...makes it look a little like" Hazardous waste" !

 

[Ads]

Like the new picture Ads...makes it look a little like" Hazardous waste" !

*searches for old photo*

Oh... been meaning to ask; is that a photo of your new car, or did a giant bird take a crap on your 3.2 just before you took the photo?

 

[Ads]

On a serious note though Paddstar... How you finding the S3 so far???

 

[paddy]

*searches for old photo*

Oh... been meaning to ask; is that a photo of your new car, or did a giant bird take a crap on your 3.2 just before you took the photo?

Strangely it snowed last week on the car and the house behind but no where else. ****** powerful aircon !!

Yes thats the new wheels. They are growing on me.lol Turbo lag is a hell of a shock to us NA chaps but i am getting used to it...just dont try and nip out of turnings like your in a 3.2.lol. Its a big change from a 8P1 to a 8P3 in terms of just general niceness. everything is finished off that bit better trim wise but to be fair it is nearly 8 years newer. S3 suspension and ride is a lot better than S-line, thats the real thing you notice straight away. S3 is more economical but needs 99 ron fuel so it sort of evens out a bit. I like both cars TBH. both have plus points and minus points. Would i rather have a 8P3 3.2 if there was one ???? hmmmm i will tell you once this one has been remapped

 

[Ash B]

Wanted to say congrats on the new car Paddy. Looks lovely in the sig

 

[audigex]

...in any situation when the Quattro system isn't driving all four wheels. e.g. rolling acceleration, normal cornering, etc.

I'll try and find the video, but I was surprised how much Quattro slowed rolling acceleration compared to an identical engined FWD model.
The quattro's take off from standstill was pretty impressive though.

What is "normal" cornering? Where you're not getting towards the edge of grip and starting to understeer? Similarly do you mean rolling acceleration as in when already moving - ie 40-60/70 times rather than 0-62? I'm not being facetious, I'm just new to the idea of 4wd and trying to decide if it's worth the extra £1500 or whatever it is. I'm thinking for bad weather (I'll be getting my car while living down a lane, and my street isn't normally treated in winter) and the corners in the Lake District, it will be useful. Lower economy isn't much of an issue as it's only a couple of MPG and I'm not particularly high mileage, although the higher tax is less than ideal.

I think I like the idea but am trying to decide if I can justify the extra costs for my usage. I'm looking at a 170 TDI so I can't see the grip being a disadvantage off the line or in the sort of corners I'm likely to meet - are you saying it will be a disadvantage when overtaking though?

 

[paddy]

What is "normal" cornering? Where you're not getting towards the edge of grip and starting to understeer? Similarly do you mean rolling acceleration as in when already moving - ie 40-60/70 times rather than 0-62? I'm not being facetious, I'm just new to the idea of 4wd and trying to decide if it's worth the extra £1500 or whatever it is. I'm thinking for bad weather (I'll be getting my car while living down a lane, and my street isn't normally treated in winter) and the corners in the Lake District, it will be useful. Lower economy isn't much of an issue as it's only a couple of MPG and I'm not particularly high mileage, although the higher tax is less than ideal.

I think I like the idea but am trying to decide if I can justify the extra costs for my usage. I'm looking at a 170 TDI so I can't see the grip being a disadvantage off the line or in the sort of corners I'm likely to meet - are you saying it will be a disadvantage when overtaking though?

for that money its a must !! People pay that just to put a sat nav in a A3 these days.
Last 2 winters i was the only one to get too my works on the North Downs in the snow....simply because of quattro. ****** pain really because the others all got the day off Seriously if you have the choice and living in the lake district where it rains ( sometimes) i would go for it 100%. It is very good in any sort of adverse conditions, even just pulling away in the wet. It may not free wheel as well as a FWD as Ads says but its not a huge problem and has very little if any effect on fuel costs. Put simply it takes the worry out og having to read the road conditions and gives a very good feel of being planted. also takes out most of the torque steer well. I am not anti audi FWD, i just thing given the option it would be a mistake not to have it.

 

[audigex]

From the sounds of things it's going to suit me well on our twisty little b-roads - I'm just pushing my budget hard as it is... my car search started out looking at £16k Polos and is now looking like an A3 BE at £23k+

"It may not free wheel as well as a FWD as Ads says" I'm still struggling with this, do you mean when disengaging the clutch or something? I'm thinking it might be worth dropping the tech pack/sunroof for it. I can maybe stretch to any two out of the three.

 

[paddy]

Yes basically dipping the clutch but also just letting run off the throttle, you have extra resistance in turning the dif and rear drive shafts. Best option is the comfort pack gives you auto lights auto wipers auto dip mirrors and Cruise and BOSE for under £500...at least i did on my S3. a year back BOSE was 500 on its own. I didnt like the sunroof TBH, it was too far back in the roof.

 

[audigex]

Bose is included in the Black Edition as standard - so it's the auto lights/wiper/dip and cruise. Not too fussed about the cruise but it's good for what it is. The problem with the options is that I want most of them. Thanks for clarifying that though, I need to catch up with more of the terminology. At my age (early 20s) and with reasonably low mileages I can survive slightly more of an engine braking effect and the lower MPG for better performance round the bends. I'm coming from a 1.2 petrol so consumption should be similar round town anyway. Looks like the heart is ruling the wallet on this one.

 

[Farhan]

Heres my view on the matter and i have a FWD.

If the quattro option was available with my engine i would have gone for it. But since driving my car i cant but help realise that if i did go quattro i would carry alot more weight with the vehicle because of the 4WD system.

If you go for a less powerful engine with no intention of pushing the power up then go FWD, If you want more power later and comfort go for the 4WD.

My mates .:R is a pleasure to drive the system makes the vehicle feel alot more heavy it does not feel like your driving a little hatch. Plus handling is immense.

I do have a soft spot for the 3.2s tho. Im happy with my FWD because its a good match up in terms of power for me.

 

[S3 Dave]

S3 Dave, so your saying Audi without Quattro is ****e then???

Not at all mate, Just a summer car!

That's better on fuel and probably cheaper to tax and insure!! And in some instances possibly quicker!

At some point i'm sure you'll have a Quattro as you have the Audi bug and you'll know what were all getting at.

Were not taking the P*ss it just does what it say's on the tin!