Stop-Start Poll

[veeeight]

Re upgraded components:

All components associated with S/S have been updated. The battery is EFB/AGM, physically the size of the starter motor is increased (twice as large) compared to the 8P, and the motor mounts have been re-enforced for S/S duty.


However:

The long term effect of heat soak in all the other components (which the run-on coolant pump) doesn't cool, is unknown.

At the moment, there are suggestions on other forums that there is a casual factor in the S3 turbo failures (mainy in the USA), with start/stop.
The most likely effect of S/S is heat issues in the turbo, affecting bearings etc. but again, this is just supposition at the moment.

From:
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-turbo-issues-reported.224078/

 

[veeeight]

Bosch:
In the ECE15 measuring cycle, the urban section of the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC), reductions in fuel consumption and emissions of around 8% were meas- ured. This cycle comprises a trip of 7 km with 12 stops of 15 seconds each. In actual urban traf c, stop- ping times can be considerably longer and savings – both in terms of fuel consumption and CO2 output – can be as much as 15%.


Valeo:
The Stop-Start system provides fuel savings of up to 6% in European standard mixed cycle use, and savings of up to 15% in congested city driving.


http://oa.upm.es/7257/2/INVE_MEM_2011_78663.pdf
http://emissionsanalytics.com/do-the-benefits-of-stop-start-technology-outweigh-the-irritations/

But hey. Who the heck believes Audi's emissions claims these days anyway

(taken from: http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/start-stop-stopped-working.255950/#post-2635526)

 

[traindweller]

Nice one veeeight, balanced response ref the mechanics and the savings, but I did like the last sentence of the analysis which seems to sum it up for many.
'So, if you can cope with the annoyance factor of having your engine switch off every time you pull up it is worth having'.

 

[cemerson]

Usually I would agree - however the greed of marketing a car with lower CO2 emissions sometimes takes priority over a properly engineered solution .........


Has been known to happen

Quite, and the owners are being compensated for it... as they would be if a components start failing early due to stop/start. It's a technology that has been around for years now though and is pretty well proven.

Of course all the armchair experts here think they know better than everyone else...

I think it's arrogant to disable it. What makes people think they have the right to pollute more than necessary because they are incapable of adapting their driving style in a very minor way to cope with a new technology that saves fuel and pollutes less?

 

[h5djr]

I think it's arrogant to disable it. What makes people think they have the right to pollute more than necessary because they are incapable of adapting their driving style in a very minor way to cope with a new technology that saves fuel and pollutes less?

Based on that argument you could say it's it's arrogant to drive around in a car with 150PS when one with a lot less would use less fuel and and pollutes less.

 

[cemerson]

Based on that argument you could say it's it's arrogant to drive around in a car with 150PS when one with a lot less would use less fuel and and pollutes less.

...and not be capable of towing the trailers I need to tow. It's a legal car though, whereas overriding a system which affects the tax band you are in is highly dodgy and probably fraud.

 

[h5djr]

...and not be capable of towing the trailers I need to tow. It's a legal car though, whereas overriding a system which affects the tax band you are in is highly dodgy and probably fraud.

I wait with bated breath for Mr Plod to knock on my door!
Personally I have found Start/stop to be quite dangerous with s-tronic, so if I'm going to be stopped for more than a short time then I use the manual method and turn off the engine myself. At least this only happens when I want it to.

If it's so important to leave Start/Stop switched on why did Audi allow the driver to switch it off. If it's that important it should be the same as DRLs where the driver cannot switch then off.

 

[OliS3]

Start stop doesn't work in manual but I'd happily use it if it did but it isn't my fault Audi set the car up that way so I'll sleep tonight lol

I do use auto in heavy traffic though

 

[h5djr]

Start stop doesn't work in manual but I'd happily use it if it did but it isn't my fault Audi set the car up that way so I'll sleep tonight lol

I do use auto in heavy traffic though

I drive my s-tronic in manual mode 99% of the time and Start/Stop certainly cut the engine on mine before I switched it off.

 

[OliS3]

I drive my s-tronic in manual mode 99% of the time and Start/Stop certainly cut the engine on mine before I switched it off.

Must be an S3 thing then, I wish it did as driving to work in heavy traffic I'd rather save the fuel and enjoy using it when the roads aren't rammed

 

[mikeyvee]

a couple of things,
1, having a manual car means I can control it with the clutch pedal, perfect
2, since I have been on this website, I feel I'm in the minority when I say I have a manual car, whereas the general consensus I have seen on this site is that most users either have an S3 with DSG or just a normal A3 with DSG, which may split opinion on S/S being used or not.

You're not - I'm manual and it works just fine for me. In fact I'm pretty impressed how quickly it can start up and go much faster than me selecting1st from neutral and lifting the clutch!

 

[cemerson]

I wait with bated breath for Mr Plod to knock on my door!
Personally I have found Start/stop to be quite dangerous with s-tronic, so if I'm going to be stopped for more than a short time then I use the manual method and turn off the engine myself. At least this only happens when I want it to.

If it's so important to leave Start/Stop switched on why did Audi allow the driver to switch it off. If it's that important it should be the same as DRLs where the driver cannot switch then off.

The off button is there for use in traffic jams and similar situations when it doesn't make sense for the engine to turn off because of the quick cycles in movement. I think Audi assumed the drivers would be capable of actually judging these situations best for themselves, not to use it as a blanket 'turn it off all the time' function.

Like I say, I had absolutely zero problem pulling into gaps when I've had S-tronic gearboxes with stop/start. It takes only a few times to easily adapt to it and be able to restart the engine on demand ready for pulling away.

 

[RYuill]

Disabled it with VCDS. For some reason it just irritated me.

 

[DeckedS3]

Is it possible to set it default off but have the ability to turn it on when required? Essentially, reverse the switch.

 

[h5djr]

The off button is there for use in traffic jams and similar situations when it doesn't make sense for the engine to turn off because of the quick cycles in movement. I think Audi assumed the drivers would be capable of actually judging these situations best for themselves, not to use it as a blanket 'turn it off all the time' function.

Like I say, I had absolutely zero problem pulling into gaps when I've had S-tronic gearboxes with stop/start. It takes only a few times to easily adapt to it and be able to restart the engine on demand ready for pulling away.

According to the Owner's Manual...
"You can switch the system off if you don't want to use it" No mention of just in traffic jams!

To me a much better system would be if the Start/Stop system OFF switch actually switched the engine OFF when I wanted it to as and then it started again when I pressed the throttle pedal. I would then be able to use it whenever I was stopped in some situations but not in others.
But as it is I have chosen to switch it off because I don't want to use it.

 

[cemerson]

Yes, the expectation is that most people won't turn it off most of the time. Permanently disabling it is an entirely different matter.

 

[richinsoton]

I always switch it off. First 2 or 3 miles or journey in town traffic & then 40 odd on the motorway, so I'd rather have my engine nearer to its operating temperature for when I join the m'way on my daily commute to help minimize wear. I did read somewhere along the lines of that you need to be switched off for over 2 mins to gain anything over the fuel lost in restarting the cold engine & all of the 4 way traffic lights near me cycle within 1m 30s... (2.0 tdi, manual g'box)

 

[h5djr]

Yes, the expectation is that most people won't turn it off most of the time. Permanently disabling it is an entirely different matter.

How do you know what the expectation of the engineers who designed the system was. Is it just another part of the system which allows Audi to claim lower emissions than the engines actually produce. As far as I'm concerned the switch is there to give the driver the choice. If they want to use then they can. If like me you think it's a system that causes more trouble than it is worth and makes very little extra difference to my own system of switching the engine off myself when I'm going to be stopped for more than a couple of minutes. What is the difference between what I do and switching it off every time I get in to the car. If there was a good reason for not switching it off then perhaps Audi should not have provided an OFF switch.

In my particular case I do not like the Hold Assist either so I leave it switched off all the time. Fortunately this system does not reset itself every time the ignition is turned off.

 

[cemerson]

The very fact that the system isn't designed to remember your preference tells you about their expectations and how they want you to use it.

 

[OliS3]

The very fact that the system isn't designed to remember your preference tells you about their expectations and how they want you to use it.

The traction control turns itself back on everytime I restart the car. I can't see how that means I should leave it on?

 

[WarwickL]

According to the Owner's Manual...
"You can switch the system off if you don't want to use it" No mention of just in traffic jams!

To me a much better system would be if the Start/Stop system OFF switch actually switched the engine OFF when I wanted it to as and then it started again when I pressed the throttle pedal. I would then be able to use it whenever I was stopped in some situations but not in others.
But as it is I have chosen to switch it off because I don't want to use it.

Yes, two buttons I always hit when starting the car - Start/Stop turned off and Screen down.

Both should be selectable as always off in MMI but as far as the Start/Stop being on automatically, it is required due to the ADR's (Australian Design Rules ) here according to Audi AU.

Sure, I could disable Start/Stop via VCDS but haven't bothered given the switch is almost an automatic thing now every time I get in the car. The screen always coming up annoys me more TBH.

 

[h5djr]

Not quite on thread but when it comes down to it, one of the main reasons I own an A3 is CHOICE. When it came time to change my car there were quite a number of reasons why I preferred the latest Golf to the A3 but VW do not offer the same CHOICES. Following test drives in both models and the 2.0TDI 150 and 184 I decided I wanted the 184 engine and of course s-tronic. Both Audi and VW offer this engine but in the Golf you have to have the GTD model. This comes as standard with a number of items which I would not want on my car including 18" wheels and lowered sport suspension, stainless steel pedals, black headlining and rear tinted glass. With the A3 I there is CHOICE about these item and I could choose 17" wheels and standard suspension and all the other items that are standard on the Golf are options on the A3. I do not like a manufacturer telling what I can and cannot have on my car. In other words I like CHOICE and to me Start/Stop falls in that category. I don't object if they put it on the car providing they give me the CHOICE to decide if I use it or not. As I do not like the system I have chosen to switch it OFF.

My wife has a new VW Polo with s-tronic. She had a manual A1 before the Polo and was quite happy with the Start/Stop system on the A1 but, like me, she hates it on the s-tronic Polo. As I have a VCDS cable that will only work with the A3 and not the Polo we paid a local independent Audi/VW specialist run by two Audi Master Techs to switch hers off as well and to switch the anti-hijacking door locking on as it seems that new VWs came come with it switched off for some reason.

 

[Ignition1]

My S/S never kicks in unless the engine is fully warmed up, so it doesn't bother me when I first get in the car. Also if I put S-Tronic in manual mode it doesn't kick in either.

As I stated before, I like S/S because - at least on S-Tronics - it feels like launch control if you're quick enough to press the throttle after releasing the brake.

 

[WarwickL]

Stop/Start is the worst possible thing you can do to an engine and even worse a turbocharged engine. Audi did it only to meet emissions. No other reason.

Has almost no benefit to the consumer and a lot more negatives.

 

[Ignition1]

Stop/Start is the worst possible thing you can do to an engine and even worse a turbocharged engine. Audi did it only to meet emissions. No other reason.

Has almost no benefit to the consumer and a lot more negatives.

If I'm honest, I'm not too worried about damage to the engine - that's the next owner's problem

I think it helps in congested city roads. If every car could turn itself off at a set of red lights then that's a load of emissions not going into people's lungs.

Though if it's VW cars...as soon as the lights go green then the extra emissions would probably off-set the reduction through S/S...

 

[WarwickL]

There is no empirical evidence to show the feature does anything for real emissions.

Frankly, I do care about the engine and other components whilst I own the car, even if it does not directly benefit myself.

Edit - based on this post, you don't really care about emissions do you

I've given up on trying to get decent MPG from my car. If I was in your situation, I'd do the same and just drive it like you want to.

These days (7000 miles in) I get 25mpg in town, 35 on B/A roads and 45 on a motorway. Can't improve on that unless I drive like a hyper-miler.

 

[h5djr]

My S/S never kicks in unless the engine is fully warmed up, so it doesn't bother me when I first get in the car. Also if I put S-Tronic in manual mode it doesn't kick in either.

As I stated before, I like S/S because - at least on S-Tronics - it feels like launch control if you're quick enough to press the throttle after releasing the brake.

My Start/Stop used to work in both D and Manual modes.

 

[Ignition1]

There is no empirical evidence to show the feature does anything for reals emissions.

Frankly, I do care about the engine and other components whilst I own the car, even if it does not directly benefit myself.

Edit - based on this post, you don't really care about emissions do you

Not as much as I should be!

I like to think that my car has the correct emissions regardless of how I drive it. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[WarwickL]

Not as much as I should be!

I like to think that my car has the correct emissions regardless of how I drive it. Ignorance is bliss.

You realise the more fuel you use per mile/km driven the more emissions you produce ?

So we agree, this isn't about emissions.

 

[steeve]

You realise the more fuel you use per mile/km driven the more emissions you produce ?

So we agree, this isn't about emissions.

Youre so right, it's not about emmissions or we'd all be buying what ever is on the market with the lowest,

See below......

As ships get bigger, the pollution is getting worse. The most staggering statistic of all is that just 16 of the world’s largest ships can produce as much lung-clogging sulphur pollution as all the world’s cars.

Because of their colossal engines, each as heavy as a small ship, these super-vessels use as much fuel as small power stations.

But, unlike power stations or cars, they can burn the cheapest, filthiest, high-sulphur fuel: the thick residues left behind in refineries after the lighter liquids have been taken. The stuff nobody on land is allowed to use.

 

[WarwickL]

Those ships need Audis Stop/Start

 

[steeve]

Those ships need Audis Stop/Start