Stage 3 clutch slip DSG

Ds32

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Hello all. Just had a stage 3 ECU/TCU map done but the DSG clutch is slipping top end and causing a gearbox overheating message.
In normal driving its completely fine.

Tuner said I need new clutch packs. Is this more likely to be a poor TCU map or worn down clutch packs? 75k mileage car, pfl 6 speed DQ250.

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NHN

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Can they not dial it down a bit to compensate until you can decide on either to keep it tame or swap the gearbox parts out?
 

Ds32

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Can they not dial it down a bit to compensate until you can decide on either to keep it tame or swap the gearbox parts out?
They have but still causing slip top end. I'm seriously suspecting the TCU map rather than a worn clutch but i've been told once they start to slip its hard to get good clamping pressure again.
I'm not sure. Waiting on other tuners to check the TCU map
 

NHN

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Occam's razor.

I misread, so it's had a stage 3 aswell as the box map, I'd say it's possibly already been close to the mark on stage 2 & the stage 3 has tipped it over, so it may not be the box map, but ideally putting the box back to stock or as it was before, stock or not, would give you more insight.

If it's only just started to slip, then I'd believe taking it back a notch would help it retain its previous state better so to speak, but I wouldn't say the tuner is necessarily wrong.

Only few ways to find out & these things crop up when you get to these levels tbh, weaknesses start to show, happens all the time.
 

Ds32

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Occam's razor.

I misread, so it's had a stage 3 aswell as the box map, I'd say it's possibly already been close to the mark on stage 2 & the stage 3 has tipped it over, so it may not be the box map, but ideally putting the box back to stock or as it was before, stock or not, would give you more insight.

If it's only just started to slip, then I'd believe taking it back a notch would help it retain its previous state better so to speak, but I wouldn't say the tuner is necessarily wrong.

Only few ways to find out & these things crop up when you get to these levels tbh, weaknesses start to show, happens all the time.
I've spoke to QST and the Phirm and both said its unlikely the clutch has gone on a DSG and they suspect the map saying they've seen poor maps causing this in the past. I'm really not sure though, hoping someone has had this and can give some feedback. I've personally heard of TCU maps causing slip then when re-adjusted with higher clamping pressures it was resolved.
 

NHN

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I would ask them to return the box to stock & test again with just stage 3, assuming they don't come hand in hand.
 

Damo S

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I don't see how a TCU map can be "bad" unless it hasnt increased the clamping pressure, one would assume, to the maximum possible. If the tuner can verify with certainty they've done that, they are most likely right about the clutch packs. Especially if the car has spent a good bit of time at stage 2 prior to this. Even at stage 2 there is a huge amount of torque that goes through the gearbox, it is not much of a surprise they're at the end of their life after 75k miles (driving style dependent of course), IMO anyway.
 
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NHN

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I don't see how a TCU map can be "bad" unless it hasnt increased the clamping pressure, one would assume, to the maximum possible. If the tuner can verify with certainty they've done that, they are most likely right about the clutch packs. Especially if the car has spent a good bit of time at stage 2 prior to this. Even at stage 2 there is a huge amount of torque that goes through the gearbox, it is not much of a surprise they're at the end of their life after 75k miles (driving style dependent of course), IMO anyway.
I tend to have this thought also, people don't go stage 2 & then 3 & drive like miss daisy......
 

Ds32

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I don't see how a TCU map can be "bad" unless it hasnt increased the clamping pressure, one would assume, to the maximum possible. If the tuner can verify with certainty they've done that, they are most likely right about the clutch packs. Especially if the car has spent a good bit of time at stage 2 prior to this. Even at stage 2 there is a huge amount of torque that goes through the gearbox, it is not much of a surprise they're at the end of their life after 75k miles (driving style dependent of course), IMO anyway.
I thought this at first but apparently its not uncommon. Been on the golf R forums and there are few there that had TCU maps which didn't have the correct clamping pressure causing clutch slip and all were custom TCU maps as is mine.
The boost is set high, it only slips on high boost so I'm hoping its just the TCU map as suggested to me. It could be the clutch packs as the car is on 75k miles but there was no sign of clutch slip at all on stage 2.
Will update when I find out.
 

Damo S

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I thought this at first but apparently its not uncommon. Been on the golf R forums and there are few there that had TCU maps which didn't have the correct clamping pressure causing clutch slip and all were custom TCU maps as is mine.

Lets hope the tuner can verify that, and it turns out to be the case (just need to up the clamping pressure). Fingers crossed
 

Damo S

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I tend to have this thought also, people don't go stage 2 & then 3 & drive like miss daisy......

You say that. Mine is stage 2 yet I spend most of the time driving around just following everyone else, with the occasional short blat.
 

Ds32

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Lets hope the tuner can verify that, and it turns out to be the case (just need to up the clamping pressure). Fingers crossed
Thank you mate I appreciate that. Will update next week
 

Ds32

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Ok so it’s definitely the clutch unfortunately. TVS map couldn’t resolve the slip.
if anyone has a recommendation for DSG clutches please let me know.
Gutted is an understatement, most garages are quoting over 2k supplied and fitted.
 

desertstorm

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The clutch would possibly still been good if the TCU had been mapped correctly in the first place . The fact that it has been slipping a lot on overheating the gearbox oil will have damaged the clutch pack. I have a stage 3 TVS map on my 510bhp MK1 TT with a TTS DSG box conversion and have no issues with it at all on track or at Santa Pod. Did you check the clutch pressures on VCDS logs with the TCU tune you had before?.
The stage 3 TVS map is good for 600Nm with a stock clutch pack. How much power and torque is your car making?.
 

Ds32

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The clutch would possibly still been good if the TCU had been mapped correctly in the first place . The fact that it has been slipping a lot on overheating the gearbox oil will have damaged the clutch pack. I have a stage 3 TVS map on my 510bhp MK1 TT with a TTS DSG box conversion and have no issues with it at all on track or at Santa Pod. Did you check the clutch pressures on VCDS logs with the TCU tune you had before?.
The stage 3 TVS map is good for 600Nm with a stock clutch pack. How much power and torque is your car making?.
Yes it was the previous TCU map that caused the clutch to wear. I’m annoyed because data logs show the car is running 2.1 bar boost and I was told it was de-tuned to preserve the clutch.
QST are helping me. We will cap the torque at 600nm after a new clutch is fitted and keep the power safe and healthy 480-500bhp with no more than 1.85 bar.
I am extremely annoyed by the previous maps. Clamping pressures weren’t up to par which has wrecked the clutch.
doubt I will get my money back from the previous tuner even with data logs to prove. Really don’t know what to say. Costing me twice the amount a stage 3 should have. Won’t mention the tuner as I don’t want to slag anyone off.
 
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