Stage 2 on 1.8TQS 99'00

[Reyes]

Hi guys, I've worked my *** off recently and I've worked out that I can spend a fair bit on my new pride and joy. I've sourced a few cosmetic parts to make her more suited to me, ie; Coilovers and S4 bits. (ideally I want air suspension)

Anyway, performance. I know a stage one gives it an estimated nice 210 horses but I want slight higher with slightly more torque. I'm aware that on most 20vT's, a stage 2 consists of a FMIC and a TIP, is there anything else I should be looking at? And what power estimated on a stage 2?

Many thanks! x

 

[aragorn]

You wont see 210hp with a stage 1 or 2. The standard turbo on the TQS is flat out at around 200hp.

"stage2" mods are typically focussed on managing heat and improving flow, to allow you to run massive boost on the midrange. Hence FMIC, decat or sportcat and exhuast, TIP etc. You wont get any more peak power, however you will lift the midrange torque up improving day to day performance.

The biggest issue is getting a decent tune, there are only a small number of folk that will actually be able to map your car. The usual big names wont have anything to do with the ecu in these cars, as they're not flashable.

 

[Reyes]

Thanks very much for the info I've found a few places that can map it. I think I may invest into a K04 or K03s? Opinions?

 

[Reyes]

Opinions??Jane's Tote

 

[Sulli79]

Thanks very much for the info I've found a few places that can map it. I think I may invest into a K04 or K03s? Opinions?

Dont think K04 will be worth the money for the gain it gives, a decent hybrid or bigger turbo is the way ahead.

 

[Reyes]

Please point me in the right direction. I saw something on here about 'Frankenturbo' or something?

 

[aragorn]

first thing you need to be aware is that transverse tuning isnt the same. So talk of K03s and K04 turbos as you might hear on the A3 boards doesnt apply to the TQS (or any A4 platform car)

If you want to change the turbo, then a hybrid like the frankenturbo, or the unit i've just got from beachbuggy on here is probably a sensible option. Depends on your powergoals though.

Who have you found to map it?

 

[Reyes]

Yep, I'm aware now. I've just been browsing through. I've had a look on Frankenturbo (in American..) and I'm still looking for some other alternatives for bigger boost, nothing too much. Just on the lines of 250+ Being Quattro, there's quite a bit more potential in my eyes.

The TQS is hard to find tuning parts and companies.

 

[aragorn]

The frankenturbo, or a similar spec hybrid build here in the UK is your best option to keep it simple. Top end, with the right supporting mods (3" MAF, Injectors, FMIC, TIP, big manifold, decat etc) your probably looking at 275hp or thereabouts.

Engine parts that fit the AEB (FWD A4) will also fit the TQS's engine, they're identical. The only thing that wont fit from a FWD car is the exhaust system.

If your planning more than 275, then IMO you want to go streight to a big turbo like a Garret GT28RS.

 

[Reyes]

APR seem good?

 

[Reyes]

You're a star mate. Thank you. Bookmarked.

 

[aragorn]

I doubt someone like APR are going to do you a decent tune for a frankenturbo.

Nick at RTech is probably where i'd be going, hes had plenty of experience tuning M3.8 cars with various hybrid turbochargers.

 

[Reyes]

What other alternatives to Frankenturbo.?. I have just over £1k to blow on performance side of things but I'm wondering if I could settle for now as I don't think I will financially do it? I'm just sketchy on the stock turbos limits. Disappointing.

 

[Bradderz_1988]

The frankenturbo is a good bit of kit for your money but my exhaust manifold is cracked already and has play in the turbine shaft after only 10k personally id look at getting a gt28 but you will need to throw in some rods as 300+ is at the stock rods limits.

Im toying with either a gt28 or getting the FT rebuilt with genuine internals and supporting mods as surfing the net brought to light that these are shangai special turbos shipped to america for FT to make a profit but doug was cery helpful with my issue and was willing to send me a replacement chra and compressor housing for $150 which i may go ahead with and then have it rebuilt and balanced with genuine internals.

 

[aragorn]

You just need to be sensible and lay out your options.

an FMIC is needed regardless, so set aside the budget for that and then look at what you've got left. I think you'll struggle to do a Frankenturbo (or other similar hybrid) or a GT28 for a grand in one go.

For instance you'll need an upgraded downpipe at the very least with a decat and sports cat. Theres probably a few hundred quid there, and its specific to the turbo you choose, so no point getting one made for the existing setup then changing to a GT28.

FMIC is probably going to cost best part of 200quid as well, though is fairly universal, however be aware that a lot of the kits designed specifically for the A4 are somewhat too small for a big turbo producing 300+hp.

So at that point you've got 600quid left to play with, which wouldnt even be enough for the turbo, never mind all the required bolt ons such as injectors, MAF, TIP and ofcourse the required tune after you've got all the bits together.

You really need to nail down a concrete power goal, because if you dont, changing your mind and letting spec creep take hold just means you end up wasting money by buying parts which then wont fit once you've altered something else about the build.

I think with some very careful shopping around, 260hp could be achieved for your budget of a grand, roughly something like this:

FMIC - £200 (big ebay core, and pipes/couplers purchased to fit)
K04-020 - £150 (used)
Modified K03 turbine housing to fit the K04-020 - £75-100
3" MAF housing - £20
SAAB Red Injectors - £50
Big bore TIP to fit the K04-020 housing - £130ish
Ported stock exhaust manifold, or big bore aftermarket one - £80
Tune - £400 (Rtech, bit of a guess on the price)
Gutted cat - £free

Its not perfect, you could ofcourse add a nice 3" downpipe and full exhaust system, you could use a rebuilt bigger turbo with hybrid wheels etc etc, but i recon with those bits, you'd manage to come in around a grand and have a setup that should achieve 250-260hp.

 

[Reyes]

...what a fantastic write up. Over the moon with the advice there mate.

You suggest a k04 would be a better option?

 

[aragorn]

Well its a good start, and can be had for not too much money. Obviously your buying a question mark with a used turbo, but it helps keep the cost down, and if it does turn out to be knackered its not that much for a rebuild.

The issue is that it doesnt fit the A4, hence needing to have the A4's turbine housing modified and swapped onto the K04-020.

Effectively your building a hybrid turbo thats slightly smaller than the frankenturbo.

But as i say, if its a stop gap and you plan to go for 300+ hp in the future, then i'd say dont bother and save up to do it right from the off, as the additional expense of all the hybrid specific parts (not to mention the tune) will end up flushed down the pan when you change it.

 

[Reyes]

That sounds fine, under 300 is ok with me.
Where could help with the 'K04 hybrid'?

Thank you again for the advice. I've learnt a lot in the last 12 hours lol.

 

[aragorn]

speak to beachbuggy on here about the turbo machining, hes sorted mine out.

 

[jcb]

just get a used GT28 and be done with it
by the time you have sourced all the components and machining for a hybrid you are still looking at a turbo that will run out of puff and is operating at the wrong end of its comfort zone when pushed up past 250bhp.

whichever way you are looking at it you are polishing a **** (I hate the K0 range with a passion!)

the only reason people do that is to avoid replacing a manifold and downpipe.

so painful sourcing and intricate machining and balancing of lots of high tolerance parts, producing a limited application ....all to avoid replacing...
a lump of cast iron and some stainless tube.....

seems obvious to me, but then I dont like systems that run on the ragged edge to get what you want out of them.

 

[aragorn]

you wont get a GT28 for the money mentioned above though. No balancing required either unless you take the K04 to bits, but you dont need to take it apart to swap the turbine housing. Its actually quite amazing to me that no-ones done it before. I guess its mainly because the turbo companies that know whats involved like to keep everything underwraps so they can charge you a grand for a "hybrid" of mysterious unknown specs.

You might manage to find an older T28 unit from a 200sx or something, which might be worth considering. Would be tight if it could be done for that budget though, would really rely on getting the turbo CHEAP and having nothing wrong with it. but you need to consider the extra money spent on oil and coolant lines, fabricating intake etc etc.

For 250ish hp, a hybrid as described is fine, Audi themselves ran the k04-023 at 240hp in the TTQS, so i'd suspect that it'll be fairly comfortable at 250. Bear in mind that turbo on an S3 will do 275-280hp when pushed, and has even seen 300hp recently on a golf conversion, albeit run at its ragged edge.

This is why i said at the start, the desired power goal needs nailed down. If 250-260ish is acceptable, then i'd stay K04. If your really wanting 300ish or higher, then go big turbo from the off.