Stage 1 Organic Clutch or Stage 2 SMF and Clutch? I dont want to ruin my car!!!

[Gaz-M]

Ok so im at stage 1 and already need to change my clutch, so will be doing so ASAP and going stage 2+.

Problem is, after reading loads on the clutches i cant decide whether i should use a Stage 1 Sachs organic clutch kit and use it with a new DMF or buy the Sachs stage 2 SMF kit.

The problem is- i dont want to ruin my car by having it rattling its brains out due to removing the DMF. That will seriously bug me!

On the other hand, i dont want to worry about the clutch not coping at Stage 2+ power/ torque levels.

Ive also heard a fair amount of organic clutches only lastic 6000 miles.. That isnt exactly ideal.

I want a standard feeling and sounding clutch that will cope with Stage 2+ and last as a clutch should.

Whats my best option?

 

[S3Alex]

Hi.

A few months ago I might have advised the Loba but after a number of issues I couldn't now.

An SMF will rattle a bit but in general it's not awful.

I used a Sachs organic and DMF all the way to Stg3 at 440 lbs but I do know people who've had problems.

The main one is treating it gently over the first few hundred miles and then not going for drag runs which will kill it.

There are a number of paddle clutches with SMFs around but those are a pain in traffic.

The Spec Stg3+ I have works very well and will handle up to 570lbs but it's an SMF setup and is more expensive.

It's difficult choosing as one mans meat is another mans poison effectively.

 

[Dan-Jnr]

I too need a recommend DMF clutch solution for Stage 2+ power so will be interested in what people have to say.

 

[S3Alex]

I too need a recommend DMF clutch solution for Stage 2+ power so will be interested in what people have to say.

If it's a DMF,then the Sachs organic is about it,choice wise.

 

[Marshy]

As Alex says Sachs is a very good compromise which seems to handle stage 2+ ok.
As any clutch on a quattro car if your sensible it'll be fine, if you abuse it then it won't.
Basically the same as the standard clutch in standard tune.
Sachs for me and I like it, nice and quiet and only a slightly heavier pedal feel. Perfect gear change and for everyday use.

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

SMF do ruin a daily used road car IMO, stay away if you can.

Rick

 

[Gaz-M]

Ok so a Sachs organic will be fine. Ideal.

Should the DMF be renewed aswell?

When cold I have a very slight lift in revs for probably a second which then comes back to normal revs and continues on. Its weird- is that the DMF? Doesn't do this hot.

I do have a general very slight slip when its hot but not like a normal car with a slipping clutch where it can rev right out- mine only over-revs very slightly compared to where it should be if fully engaged.

Any of those point to DMF needing changed?

 

[Marshy]

Personally for the price it costs to buy a clutch and the labour cost involved I think its silly not to replace the dmf
You can buy them for about £250

 

[Gfermer]

i got the loba/sachs stage 2 with smf my advice is dont get the stage 2 one

 

[Gaz-M]

Cheers guys, wheres best place to get a Sachs Organic?

How do i know if my car has LUK flywheel or Sachs as arent the clutches different?

Am i okay to just buy a new LUK DMF (even if my current one is a Sachs) and buy the associated Sachs organic clutch? Or is there other things different?

Going to order tomorrow, best place to buy?

 

[Compkiler]

Brodster on here i think bud ;-)

 

[Marshy]

Although the clutch is listed as different for Sachs/luk I'm 99% sure Sachs never made a dmf for our application.
Luk part number 415033110

 

[Gaz-M]

Cheers, thats the exact LUK number i have coming!

Ive bit the bullet and ordered:

New LUK DMF
Sachs Organic Clutch
Milltek Decat
Autotech fuel pump internals

Ill try have it all fitted at start of next week and get it in for stage 2+ upgrade!

 

[JFelts]

i have been recommended a Helix clutch? i don't have any idea about clutches etc so what do you lot reckon?

 

[Marshy]

I was going to buy a Helix as there's a group buy on the golf forum for £450 but after a little research I found much more failures on Helix with absolute no warranty given than Sachs.
Sachs seemed to be pretty reliable and proven and is the common choice.

 

[Gaz-M]

Seen Helix on AwesomeGti website but as i hadnt heard anyone using them i went the safe choice of what was known and proven!

 

[S3Alex]

Cheers, thats the exact LUK number i have coming!

Ive bit the bullet and ordered:

New LUK DMF
Sachs Organic Clutch
Milltek Decat
Autotech fuel pump internals

Ill try have it all fitted at start of next week and get it in for stage 2+ upgrade!

Run it in gently over a few hundred miles and no drag runs....then it should last well.

 

[Gaz-M]

Easy as in no quick gear changes, or as in no full throttle runs at all? No drag runs will be happening anyway!

 

[Marshy]

I tret mine gentle with no full power for 500 miles and mines perfect now no judder or smell.

 

[Gaz-M]

500miles without feeling the new power!! :O

What needs run in, the heat cycles help the materials or something? Clutches never normally need run in!

 

[Marshy]

I fitted mine on stage 1 and run the 500 miles before going 2+.
Standard clutches don't need bedded in but with uprated kits being so much harder you've not to overheat the material until it's properly mated to the flywheel the top coatings removed.
When it costs what it costs to get done I'd stick to the guidelines or you may end up with premature problems.

 

[S3Alex]

I fitted mine on stage 1 and run the 500 miles before going 2+.
Standard clutches don't need bedded in but with uprated kits being so much harder you've not to overheat the material until it's properly mated to the flywheel the top coatings removed.
When it costs what it costs to get done I'd stick to the guidelines or you may end up with premature problems.

As you say....


The organic clutch material will accept a higher torque loading than the OEM clutch,but if you overheat it you're likely to ruin it.

Mine smelt pretty fruity for the first few days,but then everything was fine,and it lasted all the way to Stg3.

 

[Gaz-M]

Ah, does it tell you a running in procedure? Fair enough then, i just thought some people thought giving it an easy few hundred miles helped it last!

 

[JFelts]

so you all reckon go for a sachs clutch instead of one by helix?

 

[Marshy]

I have never tried Helix so don't have any personal experience but I've heard of a few failures.
Sachs on the other hand I'm on my 3rd kit on my 3rd car. All been mapped and never a hint of a problem.

 

[grchmason]

I have never tried Helix so don't have any personal experience but I've heard of a few failures.
Sachs on the other hand I'm on my 3rd kit on my 3rd car. All been mapped and never a hint of a problem.

What was the total cost of parts mate sachs and DMF ?

 

[Marshy]

I was extremely lucky and bought a new flywheel on an Amazon mistake for £125 instead of the proper £250
I bought my complete Sachs kit as a one off deal for £400 instead of the £560
Genuine gearbox oil cost £35 and I changed transfer box oil £18
I fitted it myself which took 5 hours so labour should be approx £350

It's expensive but fit the best and it should be a once only expense.

hope the wife never looks this up

 

[JFelts]

I have never tried Helix so don't have any personal experience but I've heard of a few failures.
Sachs on the other hand I'm on my 3rd kit on my 3rd car. All been mapped and never a hint of a problem.

thats good enough for me! sachs it is!! thanks buddy

 

[thetrashcanman]

Cheers, thats the exact LUK number i have coming!

Ive bit the bullet and ordered:

New LUK DMF
Sachs Organic Clutch

Ill try have it all fitted at start of next week and get it in for stage 2+ upgrade!

Going to be doing mine soon before I go Stage 2+

where is the best place to get all of this from?

 

[Gaz-M]

To reply to previous question, i think clutch was £465 and flywheel from Dingbro at trade prices was £225, plus slave cylinder was £37.


If anyone is in Fife i can recommend Andy at Falkland Performance for parts (he matched online prices and had them next day!) or for Revo mapping.

 

[thetrashcanman]

To reply to previous question, i think clutch was £465 and flywheel from Dingbro at trade prices was £225, plus slave cylinder was £37.


If anyone is in Fife i can recommend Andy at Falkland Performance for parts (he matched online prices and had them next day!) or for Revo mapping.

Don't suppose you've got a link to that have you mate?

Is there anywhere down south that supplies that or am I best of getting it from Loba motorsports?

 

[Gaz-M]

I got my clutch through Falkland Performance not on the internet! Cant help on suppliers sorry.

 

[thetrashcanman]

I got my clutch through Falkland Performance not on the internet! Cant help on suppliers sorry.

No worries mate thank you for your help, is this the correct clutch?

SACHS Stage 1 Performance uprated clutch kit 2.0 TFSI / TSI | 2.0 TFSI 195 kW (265 PS) | S3 | Audi | LOBA Motorsport GmbH

 

[Marshy]

It looks right.
I usually deal with Kris from Samtech performance and his kit includes the release bearing
http://samtechperformance.co.uk/presta/index.php?id_product=98&controller=product

 

[Gaz-M]

No worries mate thank you for your help, is this the correct clutch?

SACHS Stage 1 Performance uprated clutch kit 2.0 TFSI / TSI | 2.0 TFSI 195 kW (265 PS) | S3 | Audi | LOBA Motorsport GmbH

Yeh that looks like the one i have. Its handling stage 2+ no problem but remember these clutches do give a heavy pedal which in honesty i really dont like.

 

[Marshy]

I've had 3 of these kits on 3 different cars and I'd say the one on my S3 is the lightest of the 3!
It's only marginally heavier than standard and even the wife drives the car and never mentioned it.

 

[armstrong_21490]

Yeh that looks like the one i have. Its handling stage 2+ no problem but remember these clutches do give a heavy pedal which in honesty i really dont like.

I am planning on going stage 2+ with my s3 soon and will be going with this clutch. Quiet glad to hear the clutch feels heavier. I have a uprated clutch in my old car (hybrid pd150 fabia Vrs) and prefer a heavier feel to the clutch. Going from driving it to the s3 I nearly put my foot through the floor pressing the pedal. lol

Ross

 

[Gaz-M]

Its heavier as the spring on the clutch cover is heavier to give a higher clamping force, so its meant to be heavier and states this in the info for the kit. But i dont like the heavier feel, maybe ill get used to it.