Speeding, 3 points and £60 fine.

Lee172

Lee172

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I know this isn't a legal advice forum but thought some one on here might be able to help, i was pulled over last night by undercover police for speeding and/or 'racing'. The police say they don't know what speed i was going but they estimate between 60- 70 mph in a 40. I would disagree with this and i was NOT racing but can understand why they think i was (a golf was on my bumper). The police have no evidence of the speed i was going but do have a video of me going past them while they were parked on the side of the road. They said i can either accept the 3 points and £60 fine or take it to court where they could up the charge to dangerous driving as they believe i was racing. My question is, should i just accept the points and fine or argue in the hope i may not get the points? Although they don't have any evidence of my actual speed, there was two officers present which im guessing their word will go further than mine in court.
 
Thing is if you take it to court you don't stand much of a chance against two officers! If they have no evidence of your speed they will just change the charges to a section 59, dangerous driving, street racing etc...

If it was me i would save myself the hassle of court and the possibility of a worse punishment and take 3points, £60 fine! If its your first 3points it won't affect your insurance too much.

Hope this helps :icon_thumright:
 
Yes but if they have evidence then you're entitled to see this as they could say anything, why not go to the police station & ask to see the evidence, no need for court if they can prove this, as you could say I didnt think I was speeding, please kindly show me the speed you tracked me at & if this is correct then I'll happily accept the fine & points.

Threatening you to take it or get a worse offence is just blackmail & bullying, they have to act within the confines of the law, they would need to prove this in a court aswell, regardless of if they were coppers surely, isnt this why they have video evidence with speeds displayed, maybe resident Tom can advise us?
 
Prozac works wonders huh Bass, now you're agreeing with me :p
 
I would just take the points and fine pal, court will more than likely mean you would have to take time off work and cause you more inconvenience. Gotta ask yourself 'is it worth it?'
 
Yeah but you also gotta ask yourself hey hold on, if you have no proof & I dont think I was (honestly that is) then why should you be pushed to do something they should prove tbh, his choice, but I know I hated having 3 points holding over me & to think hold on no actual proof is worst.
 
BASS 666 said:
i agree..
Click to expand...

Did the pics not work??? lol Try again...

I agree, ask to see the video they have on you, that way you can judge yourself how it looked when you passed them. Then decide from there but I did think they had to have a speed taken to prosecute but as said above they can change to dangerous/racing etc.
 
audi upgrades
Thanks for the replies.. the evidence they have (other than both their words) is the video, which i have seen. You see me for a split second with the golf which i mentioned above over taking another car which was on the inside lane. Then they put the sirons on and pull out to chase after me. It has not got any speed recorded in the video other than theirs which, while they were after me got up to 86mph, by the time i was in the cameras view i was probably half a mile up the road pulling off from the next set of lights. They over took the golf and went straight for me. Apparently that was because i was leading the 'race'.

Its a difficult one for me as i obviously don't want the points on my licence, im 21 and insurance is already high enough. I may just have to take it on the chin though.
 
Urm you need legal counsel for this as that is a tricky one, they wernt chasing you so there speed is irrelevant, so atm they cant prove anything if it was a dual carraigeway & no record of your speed.
 
Sarah's A3 said:
Did the pics not work??? lol Try again...

I agree, ask to see the video they have on you, that way you can judge yourself how it looked when you passed them. Then decide from there but I did think they had to have a speed taken to prosecute but as said above they can change to dangerous/racing etc.
Click to expand...
no love it keeps saying file too big. dont worry i will get it thanks..
 
You dont need to capture the speed for a dangerous drive.If they have a video of you passing them at speed, its a simple calculation to determine your speed, and i think that if it shows you doing 70 in a 40 then that aint good.Sure its more hassle for them to do, but they will if theyre challenged.Your choice...pay the ticket or call thier bluff.Id take the ticket :busted_cop:
 
Do you know what speed you were doing at the time? If you were in fact way over the speed limit, then you're probably better off taking it on the chin mate
 
You say in your first post that the golf was on your bumper, so surely they should be the one done for dangerous driving, could you not argue that you were being tailgated?
 
Lee - I've taken on the Police a few times with great success but, and this is a BIG but, you need to make sure you are absolutley spot on with the facts, and, the Road Traffic Act. There is a website that will help you although I can't find the link so I'll need to have a look for it which covers what the Police can and can't do. Tom A3 may be able to give you some assistance but Traffic Officers are a law unto themselves!! REMEMBER - it's not for you to prove you weren't doing it but for them to PROVE YOU WERE!

Sarah - What is going on in your first signiture picture?? LOL :)
 
so the golf was being a **** sitting on your bumper, what speed do you honestly think you were doing?
 
The Police don't need to prove your speed, if there are two 'experienced' officers in the car then they can estimate your speed, and it will most likely stand up in court.

Take the ticket mate.

scoobyra said:
There is a website that will help you although I can't find the link so I'll need to have a look for it which covers what the Police can and can't do.
Click to expand...

PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice
 
That'll be one of the websites. There's another one too but I cant bloddy remember the name of it!!

Further to that, the speed is irrelevant as they will be trying to prosecute you for Dangerous Driving / Driving without undue Care / Racing on a Public Highway etc. If it's just speeding then they DO need to prove the speed!

The Road Traffic Act is a very strange thing and you need to know it inside and out. Without going into great detail I was reported for Dangerous Driving and Undue Care WHILST Speeding. Ok, so I 'may' have been doing 70 in a 30 zone but they couldn't PROVE it so they reported me for the offence which followed - namely what they described as a 'hand brake turn' (it wasn't, I just threw the car sideways with a touch of left foot brake and nailed the throttle (Impreza's handle great!) causing me to negotiate a turn in the road in true 'Ken Block Style'

It went to court and the Judge dismissed the Police Officers claim I was speeding as it was impossible to porve without VASCAR or any other speed measuring equipment. (there was two Officers present at the time). They also couldn't prosecute me for the other offence as they had to 'PROVE' it was premeditated and I could explain otherwise. Fact of the matter is, I wasn't doing a 'hand brake turn' and had a get out clause!

If you can show the court you weren't doing either then I'd go to court. If not then take the 3 points
 
if you get a good brief that deals with this all the time he will put you straight ...
 
Anyone who gets a speeding ticket via the post can simply write on it, "Return To Sender, NO CONTRACT" in BLUE PEN and simply post it back,

NOIP = NOTICE OF INTENDED PROSECUTION

Read the words

NOTICE = OFFER TO CONTRACT, you have every right to refuse any contract that you feel is not in your favour, the rest of the words are just scare tactics ie, OF INTENDED PROSECUTION

Tpuc.org Forum • View forum - Templates/Letters

In care of:
your address here
Near: [postcode]
Date here, 2009

Re: ref number , dated date of summons etc
Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand and Request for Clarification.

{Manager
Central Process Unit
PO Box 273
Blackburn
BB1 2XA } or which ever authority you are under.

Dear Sirs,

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

The reason why you need to read carefully is simple. I am offering conditional agreement. This removes controversy, and means that you no longer have any ultimate recourse to a court of law in this matter, because there is no controversy upon which it could adjudicate. You always have the option of dragging these conditions into a court of law only to be told that they are, indeed, perfectly lawful. That is, of course, always your prerogative should you decide to waste your time.

For this reason it is important that you consider and respond to the offer in substance. The 'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonour on my part.

On the other hand there is a time-limit on the agreement being offered. It is reasonable, and if it runs out then you and all associated parties are in default, removing any and all lawful excuse on your part for proceeding in this matter.

For these reasons it is recommended that you carefully consider this notice and respond in substance, which means actually addressing the points raised herein.

You have apparently made demands upon me.

I do not understand those apparent demands and therefore cannot lawfully fulfil them. I seek clarification of your document so that I may act according to the law and maintain my entire body of inalienable Natural Rights.

Failure to accept this offer to clarify and to do so completely and in good faith within 7 (seven) days will be deemed by all parties to mean you and your principal or other parties abandon all demands upon me.

I conditionally accept your offer to agree that I am legal fiction 'person' your full name here and in capitals’ and that I must furnish you with details for consideration for forfeiture rendered by your company, upon proof of claim of all of the following:

1. Upon proof of claim that I am a person, and not a human being.

2. Upon proof of claim that you know what a 'person' actually is, in legal terms.

3. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between a 'human being' and a 'person', legally speaking.

4. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between 'legal' and a 'lawful'.

5. Upon proof of claim that I am legal fiction 'person' full name here in capitals again, being the entity to which your paperwork was addressed, and notChristain name: of theSurname family, as commonly called.

6. Upon proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.

7. Upon proof of claim that I am a member of the society whose statutes and subsisting regulations you are enforcing.

8. Upon proof of claim that I showed you some sort of identification.

9 Upon proof of claim that there is a nameable society that I belong to and that the laws covered within any alleged transgressions state that they apply to me within that named society.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity,

Christian name: of the Surname family
WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e. all Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved
Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely Christain name of the Surname family, as commonly called.
Click to expand...
 
Turkster said:
Anyone who gets a speeding ticket via the post can simply write on it, "Return To Sender, NO CONTRACT" in BLUE PEN and simply post it back,

NOIP = NOTICE OF INTENDED PROSECUTION

Read the words

NOTICE = OFFER TO CONTRACT, you have every right to refuse any contract that you feel is not in your favour, the rest of the words are just scare tactics ie, OF INTENDED PROSECUTION

Tpuc.org Forum • View forum - Templates/Letters
Click to expand...

Just incase your wondering why i thanked you its for the link to the forum some useful info on there thanks.
 
bengal said:
Just incase your wondering why i thanked you its for the link to the forum some useful info on there thanks.
Click to expand...

Us ants, our numbers are growing, the site is down right now due to band width being over used, not a surprise in today's world, but its being sorted as i type.


Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.
 
Sorry i have taken so long to reply, i have only got the internet on my phone at the moment. Thanks for the replies.
I have appealed about this and awaiting court papers. I just need to figure out what im going to say. Since this has happened some one told me that i may have a problem with 'the blue book' where they write in what you say and you sign.. well they didnt write in exactly what i said which i argued with them about but they made it seem i had to sign, which apparently you do not. 'I dont know what speed i was going so im going to say 40' was written down. Could this cause me any problems?
 
Sorry i have taken so long to reply, i have only got the internet on my phone at the moment. Thanks for the replies.
I have appealed about this and awaiting court papers. I just need to figure out what im going to say. Since this has happened some one told me that i may have a problem with 'the blue book' where they write in what you say and you sign.. well they didnt write in exactly what i said which i argued with them about but they made it seem i had to sign, which apparently you do not. 'I dont know what speed i was going so im going to say 40' was written down. Could this cause me any problems?
 
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