South Wales Mapper - Revo, APR or Custom?

[CanadaA3wales]

Hey

I am finally managing to get a few things done to my car at the end of the month, Honeycomb Grill, Rieger Diff and now want to get a stage 1 map.

It seems the Revo one in bridgend which is 5 min from me is around £450.00, but looking at other sites, I am not sure if the prices are current, but there is a place in cardiff and swansea doing APR maps, but think they may be around £390.00

Then I know there are some amazing custom guys, but I dont know who they are, or if they are very good with Diesel cars.

Anyway, whats your thoughts on this, is there really any difference between Revo and APR ?

I was going to get a box, but looking at other forums, they seem rather generic and not a lot of testing is done to my paticular vehicle, and I know Revo have tested my car on the roads with thier maps

Hoping all these mods will be done before xmas.

Thanks again for all the advice

 

[Bigjase88]

At your mileage i wouldn’t bother.

just asking for trouble

dead turbo / clutch / flywheel on the horizon

 

[CanadaA3wales]

I have heard of a possible clutch but not heard anything about a turbo going from a stage 1 map

 

[Dubjam]

Im probably going to go APR myself. The REVO prices are also +VAT, so the cost ended up putting me off.

The APR place will probably price match, and if you look around you'll find some places doing it for £360. Thats a fair price imo.

Custom is obviously the way to go, but the one guy I contacted who is a well known Diesel mapper (not a facebook upload code hero) didn't even have public liability insurance, so I'm not going to let him loose on my 20k motor.

 

[Bigjase88]

I have heard of a possible clutch but not heard anything about a turbo going from a stage 1 map

Turbo’s have a lifespan. At 120k your turbo has a fair chance of letting go with a remap.

Say on a stock map that turbo is working 80% of its maximum. After 120k miles you are now saying right now give me 100% of everything you have got.

more than likely to end in tears.

clutch goes thats a flywheel too cause you don’t fit a new clutch to an old flywheel, probs £1000 for a clutch and flywheel fitted and then the same again maybe more for a dead turbo.

i wouldn’t bother

 

[CanadaA3wales]

If its going to happen, its going to happen.

So far we have APR, is there any reason they may be better than Revo?

All of them are within driving distance.

 

[Dubjam]

Turbo’s have a lifespan. At 120k your turbo has a fair chance of letting go with a remap.

Say on a stock map that turbo is working 80% of its maximum. After 120k miles you are now saying right now give me 100% of everything you have got.

more than likely to end in tears.

clutch goes thats a flywheel too cause you don’t fit a new clutch to an old flywheel, probs £1000 for a clutch and flywheel fitted and then the same again maybe more for a dead turbo.

i wouldn’t bother

I've never seen a legitimate remap 'giving everything' the turbo has got. Facebook mappers maybe

The DPF is more the concern in diesel remaps and something that is not often considered in the process.

But yes, there are concerns over other bits but in a diesel its not as severe.

If its going to happen, its going to happen.

So far we have APR, is there any reason they may be better than Revo?

All of them are within driving distance.

I doubt better, tbh, if you have no experience with remapped diesels, the APR will be fine, and they are much cheaper.

Im going APR myself as soon as lockdown is over.

 

[CanadaA3wales]

I can understand a turbo to go if you are spanking it everywhere becuase of the Map but its not something I have come accross in the last few months of research that a turbo will go just because of the map. I am aware of a clutch, but not heard anyting about a flywheel getting damaged.

I have a mechanic that charges me £35.00 p/h and is very good, so a blown clutch is no big deal, and could be a blessing that I can upgrade the clutch to a sachs if it goes.

I have sent a email to vwgwent and indigo-gt about their APR prices but they have failed to get back to me.
I will try phone them later in the week if they dont message back.

 

[Bigjase88]

I can understand a turbo to go if you are spanking it everywhere becuase of the Map but its not something I have come accross in the last few months of research that a turbo will go just because of the map. I am aware of a clutch, but not heard anyting about a flywheel getting damaged.

I have a mechanic that charges me £35.00 p/h and is very good, so a blown clutch is no big deal, and could be a blessing that I can upgrade the clutch to a sachs if it goes.

I have sent a email to vwgwent and indigo-gt about their APR prices but they have failed to get back to me.
I will try phone them later in the week if they dont message back.

Dual Mass flywheels are a weak point, remap = more torque, more strain on the dual mass flywheel.

it’s just best practice, clutch goes you put in a new flywheel, it’s like putting new brake discs on with old pads, you just don’t do it.

turbo’s generally are only engineered to last 100-150k, newer turbo’s can go longer however. They spin at some crazy rpm’s so do not last forever. Even stock turbo’s can go boom.

Remap = more boost = higher rpms / more chance of failure.

i have seen a turbo go boom in real life and it is spectacular.

Over 100k on any turbo car i would not recommend a remap, unless changing turbo / hybrid etc. Or if you can accept the risk of potentially expensive repairs if something were to “let go”

uprate Sachs clucth and dmf you’ll be looking at very little change from £1200

i fitted a helix organic and single mass flywheel to one of my old diesel VAG cars and the clutch and flywheel was £880 in parts alone

 

[CanadaA3wales]

I dont mind to be honest, you can get good deals on reconditioned turbos or ones that have been taken out of car write off's and at £35.00 per hour the labour wont be massive and for a +50bhp increase I think the pro's outweigh the cons. Also if some of these bits go when a good map is put on, its likely they would have probably needed to be changed in the near future anyway.

I am only doing 3 things now.
Re-map
Honeycomb grill
Rear diffuser and side skirts, thats about it.

Oh and if I still have the car, put some 18's on the car, but I have just put new Primacy 4's and powder coated alloys so that wont be for ages.

 

[Dubjam]

I can understand a turbo to go if you are spanking it everywhere becuase of the Map but its not something I have come accross in the last few months of research that a turbo will go just because of the map. I am aware of a clutch, but not heard anyting about a flywheel getting damaged.

I have a mechanic that charges me £35.00 p/h and is very good, so a blown clutch is no big deal, and could be a blessing that I can upgrade the clutch to a sachs if it goes.

I have sent a email to vwgwent and indigo-gt about their APR prices but they have failed to get back to me.
I will try phone them later in the week if they dont message back.

You're better to call them, its rare for someone to 'price match' or give you an offer in writing, as it can go against their reselling agreement terms etc.

 

[JEB]

https://www.tuninglab.co.uk/recentwork

If you follow the link above, these guys did my A3, look at the red one on 24 July 2018, that's mine.
It had 90k on the clock, I sold it a year later to get my first TT, I put 24K miles on it with the map, no problems.

They charge £250 plus VAT for map and rolling road before and after.
I went for a "safe" 186bhp. If they feel its not right or a problem, they wont do it.

Very good garage.

 

[CanadaA3wales]

I actually seen that in a post when I was looking, it looks like a great company, but its way too far for me.

Thanks for the advice and also that nothing happened to your car as a result of the map

 

[JEB]

I actually seen that in a post when I was looking, it looks like a great company, but its way too far for me.

Thanks for the advice and also that nothing happened to your car as a result of the map

Before I changed to that red A3 8V, I had a A3 8P for five years, it was mapped.
When I PXed it for the 8V, it had 280K on the clock, same clutch, same turbo, same engine.

(I changed the oil every 5K miles, lot to be said about oil changes)

Only thing I changed in 5 years was, the flap runner motor in the intake manifold, that was replaced before mapping!!
As far as I know, its still on the road, great car.

JB

 

[Pur8]

I had my 8p diesel tuned by Performance Engineering in Cardiff.
Custom map, great service and ran the map for over 60k without issue.
Hope this helps

 

[CanadaA3wales]

Before I changed to that red A3 8V, I had a A3 8P for five years, it was mapped.
When I PXed it for the 8V, it had 280K on the clock, same clutch, same turbo, same engine.

(I changed the oil every 5K miles, lot to be said about oil changes)

Only thing I changed in 5 years was, the flap runner motor in the intake manifold, that was replaced before mapping!!
As far as I know, its still on the road, great car.

JB

WOW 280K on a 8P, those are some good figures on the Audi with a Map running on the same OEM equipment, really appreciate the help.

 

[CanadaA3wales]

I had my 8p diesel tuned by Performance Engineering in Cardiff.
Custom map, great service and ran the map for over 60k without issue.
Hope this helps

I have just had a look on their instagram page and website, looks very professional.
They want £275.00 for my car which seems a steal and some good gains as well.
Like all the reviews as well.

Indigo and vwgwent have some good reviews, but some bad reviews as well, but they were based on people wanting their car repaired.

So its either £275.00 for a custom map which seems like a good company
Or go with an established APR or Revo tune for £200.00 more.

The Revo guys in bridgend said they do a Quantum Tune as well, which I have not really heard of for £299.00

There is so much choice to go for, its hard to say which one is best

 

[CanadaA3wales]

I had my 8p diesel tuned by Performance Engineering in Cardiff.
Custom map, great service and ran the map for over 60k without issue.
Hope this helps

Upon looking at their Insta page and reviews online and looking at their shop, I think I will go with these guys, they look very professional and everyone has said they talk you through everything and will actually spend time talking you through what they are going to do.

Do they do a Dino before and After with these prices?

I appreciate the Rec @Pur8

 

[JEB]

WOW 280K on a 8P, those are some good figures on the Audi with a Map running on the same OEM equipment, really appreciate the help.

Yep, I just checked the reg, its still on the road somewhere!! (its taxed and MOTed)

 

[CanadaA3wales]

Thats crazy!!!
If that was a petrol it would have been scrapped by now.
I appreciate the government saying diesels are bad for the enviroment, but imagine how much carbon and energy it costs to make a brand new car.
Keeping a deisel on the road for 300k and not buying another one, I think thats helping the enviroment.

 

[Pur8]

Upon looking at their Insta page and reviews online and looking at their shop, I think I will go with these guys, they look very professional and everyone has said they talk you through everything and will actually spend time talking you through what they are going to do.

Do they do a Dino before and After with these prices?

I appreciate the Rec @Pur8

No problem, can't fault them to be honest.
I had my car tuned before they installed the dyno so it didn't include the dyno I'm afraid. He did take the car on quite a few drives with live information being fedback to him.
Sorry I can't help more!

 

[CanadaA3wales]

Thanks @Pur8 at least it seems they take their time and care about what they do.
Lots of mappers out there that probably just chuck a map on and then leave without checking to make sure its safe.

Will be doing at the end of the month, I cant wait to feel the extra HP and Torque!!

 

[CanadaA3wales]

They got back to me ( Performance Engineering )
They are booked up until begining of December, so will call on monday to get booked in.

They have advised about the Clutch and Turbo due to the milage of the vehicle, but hey if they go they go, will buy another.

My car is currently dinoed at 155bhp and 349nm
We are looking at 193bhp and 449nm which they have dinoed my car before.

They provide a full custom map with a dino print out - before and after for £275.00 so they seem a real winner !!

Will report back, that is if I have not burnt the clutch or blown the turbo

 

[Dubjam]

They got back to me ( Performance Engineering )
They are booked up until begining of December, so will call on monday to get booked in.

They have advised about the Clutch and Turbo due to the milage of the vehicle, but hey if they go they go, will buy another.

My car is currently dinoed at 155bhp and 349nm
We are looking at 193bhp and 449nm which they have dinoed my car before.

They provide a full custom map with a dino print out - before and after for £275.00 so they seem a real winner !!

Will report back, that is if I have not burnt the clutch or blown the turbo

Your car went on their Dyno already and produced those figures??? Isn't yours the 150bhp TDI?

Id be curious to see if it's an actual custom map or they are just tweak existing generic maps. If its full custom, you'll be in there anywhere from 3 hours (minimum) to 6 hours so take some entertainment, as watching it get run up is interesting for the first twenty minutes, then frightfully boring

One thing to also check is the calibration on the dyno, as if your high mileage car is still producing OVER the factory levels on a brand new car, something might be a little off there.

Looking forward to seeing your print out and results either way!

 

[CanadaA3wales]

No it was not my car, it was just another 150 tdi, unsure about the mileage or when it was dynoed.
I will have to ask him if he is going to custom map my car, I don't really want a silly tweak which takes an hour and I'm out, I want them to drive my car and tweak as they go.
If it takes 6 hours I'm OK with that, it shows they care.
Will let you know how I get on for sure.

 

[JEB]

If you look at the link of my old red A3 it was at the start 155bhp, it was taken to a safe 186bph. (made a massive difference)

https://www.tuninglab.co.uk/recentwork

 

[CanadaA3wales]

If you look at the link of my old red A3 it was at the start 155bhp, it was taken to a safe 186bph. (made a massive difference)

https://www.tuninglab.co.uk/recentwork

I am hoping I can get to at least 195, but they may say its a huge gamble due to the mileage of the vehicle.
10bhp is not worth a new clutch or new turbo.

Most sites claim 195bhp on my vehicle, but like you said your car had huge miles as well and is still on the road so they probably kept the BHP a little lower.

 

[CanadaA3wales]

All booked in for the 3rd of Dec.
He advised they have tested the 150bhp 8V and have done over a hundred to date so the current map they have is very acurate.
I think someone mentioned Bosch Map but didnt know they did car mapping, I may have misread.

They Dyno before and test the vehicle fully to ensure everything is working as it should and everything is healthy, then put the map on and tweeek a little if needed, then a second dyno to make sure the car is acting the way it should and its safe, full print out provided as well.

From their reviews, Insta Page, website and the cars they have dealt with, I think £275.00 is a very good price.

 

[Dubjam]

All booked in for the 3rd of Dec.
He advised they have tested the 150bhp 8V and have done over a hundred to date so the current map they have is very acurate.
I think someone mentioned Bosch Map but didnt know they did car mapping, I may have misread.

They Dyno before and test the vehicle fully to ensure everything is working as it should and everything is healthy, then put the map on and tweeek a little if needed, then a second dyno to make sure the car is acting the way it should and its safe, full print out provided as well.

From their reviews, Insta Page, website and the cars they have dealt with, I think £275.00 is a very good price.

So it's not custom, it's just a generic map 'tweaked'.

I'd be interested to hear whose map he is using as a base map. It's unlikely they will have developed their own like Revo//APR etc,and it'll be interesting how they take the DPF condition into consideration.

Still, the price is better than the big boys, and at least they have a physical presence should something go wrong, which is a big step up from a Facebook mapper and they are local to you, which helps.

You pays your monies you take you chances as with everything in this world, just check they have public liability insurance first.

 

[CanadaA3wales]

I have seen reviews saying they have had limp modes or Engine lights from Revo and APR so I guess it can happen to even the big boys.

I would prefer a Revo map, but just cannot justify double the price for almost the same thing.

But looking at their premises, it looks top quality and they get supercars in there, and all 5 star reviews on all websites.

What does public liability help me with? and how to I check it?

They did mention the DPF, Turbo and Clutch when I mentioned the mileage, but they said they will check everything when I arrive and check everything closely when its on the dyno and he said they will take my mileage into account as well. They seem very thurough

 

[Dubjam]

I have seen reviews saying they have had limp modes or Engine lights from Revo and APR so I guess it can happen to even the big boys.

I would prefer a Revo map, but just cannot justify double the price for almost the same thing.

But looking at their premises, it looks top quality and they get supercars in there, and all 5 star reviews on all websites.

What does public liability help me with? and how to I check it?

They did mention the DPF, Turbo and Clutch when I mentioned the mileage, but they said they will check everything when I arrive and check everything closely when its on the dyno and he said they will take my mileage into account as well. They seem very thurough

Public Liability insurance, it's not a legal necessity in the UK for a business to have it, but any business that is trustworthy will have it. Its not specifically for you, it protects the business/person if there is a compensation claim, which means if something does go wrong, you have somewhere to fall back on knowing they have financial backing in the event of a claim.

You can only go on what you can find out and who you feel confident with, I'm not going to comment on their abilities at all, it could (and most probably will be fine), I'm just advising of pro's and con's from my own previous experience.

I spent alot of time with Duncan of Race Dynamix and he showed me some utter abortions of maps on Evo's, Impreza's etc. True, the VAG engines are lot more generic, so basic maps generally serve them ok with some skilled input to alter things to suit the engine being worked on. This is where things fall down, like the reviews you've seen of REVO issues etc, the person doing the install, isn't skilled enough so issues arise.

I once let a Subaru specialist 'tweak' Duncans map after they did a turbo like for like swap, it basically destroyed my cars running. He blamed all sorts of things, and had a list of components for me to change to cure the issue that ran to nearly a grand. Instead, I went to see Duncan, within an hour, it was all running perfectly again.

As the firm is local to you, thats a great thing as you can just nip back and say 'this isn't right' etc. You'll probably put it into a wall with all the wheelspin before eng engine fails anyway

 

[CanadaA3wales]

Yeah thats one thing I am worried about, all the wheel spin, but I am sure if I take it easy and dont put my foot down at the lights it wont spin out.
If FWD non diff cars are mapped and they all spun out, then there would be lots more people saying its dangerous or complaints.
I am not a boy racer or anything, but do like a little bit of speed, I would never try race anyone at lights or anything, those days are long gone LOL
As Murtaugh says..... I am too old for this SH!T

How do I find out about public liab ins?

 

[Dubjam]

Yeah thats one thing I am worried about, all the wheel spin, but I am sure if I take it easy and dont put my foot down at the lights it wont spin out.
If FWD non diff cars are mapped and they all spun out, then there would be lots more people saying its dangerous or complaints.
I am not a boy racer or anything, but do like a little bit of speed, I would never try race anyone at lights or anything, those days are long gone LOL
As Murtaugh says..... I am too old for this SH!T

How do I find out about public liab ins?

its not dangerous, you just dont effectively use all that money you spent most days. Theres reasons why all the fast fwd hatch's over 200bhp come with lots of electronics and special differentials.

But hey, we all gotta experience stuff and you’ll find out after a few months if it was worth it or not. Like my challenge with running 19’s

Just ask them about the insurance.

 

[CanadaA3wales]

What so you reckon the wheels are going to spin everytime off the mark?
I dont want to waste my money if I have 2 bald front tyres every few thousand miles LOL

 

[Dubjam]

What so you reckon the wheels are going to spin everytime off the mark?
I dont want to waste my money if I have 2 bald front tyres every few thousand miles LOL

It wont be that bad, but it'll certainly be lively in the wet...be careful of roundabouts

 

[CanadaA3wales]

It wont be that bad, but it'll certainly be lively in the wet...be careful of roundabouts

Really appreciate your advice.
About roundabouts, being canadian, I LOVE ROUNDABOUTS I have a nice tight one that I need to use daily so will be sure to watch out.

 

[Dubjam]

@CanadaA3wales

Thought you'd be interested in this video.

My APR map is booked for two weeks Tuesday, and was considering a new filter as the a/f rations can be adjusted in the map, so can take advantage of it, whereas on a standard car it wouldn't. This was an interesting find.

 

[CanadaA3wales]

I actually bought a Ramair panel filter a couple weeks ago and is already intalled, and I dont care what anyone says I can feel the throttle response.

I spoke with Ramair and they advised that because I have a diesel that I am not going to see really any HP gains as I am already getting more air than a petrol, they said you may get a few HP

I dont notice any sound difference or HP gains, but the throttle response is a lot better.

I was going to get a K&N but the ramair does not have to be oiled and ramair gets great reviews and is a lot cheaper.

My appointment is on the 3rd with a Dyno printout so will post it on here next week.

 

[Dubjam]

I actually bought a Ramair panel filter a couple weeks ago and is already intalled, and I dont care what anyone says I can feel the throttle response.

I spoke with Ramair and they advised that because I have a diesel that I am not going to see really any HP gains as I am already getting more air than a petrol, they said you may get a few HP

I dont notice any sound difference or HP gains, but the throttle response is a lot better.

I was going to get a K&N but the ramair does not have to be oiled and ramair gets great reviews and is a lot cheaper.

My appointment is on the 3rd with a Dyno printout so will post it on here next week.

Did you watch the video?

i am considering installing a KN now as my map is having a lengthly adjustment session after its been uploaded, so should be able to make use of the increased air.

I have'nt the money nor inclination to run it up with and without the filter on the dyno but the video was definitely interesting.