Silver Project Tie Bars?

[Drysdaro]

Hi All,

So I desperately need some adjustable tie arms, and after a load of research I have narrowed it down to two options:

Either the Cookbot ones: http://www.cbauto-solutions.co.uk/#!stainless-steel-adjustable-tie-bars/ch3k

Or the Silver Project items: http://silverproject.eu/en/shop/audi-2/regulowane-wahacze-tylne-audi-mk1-tt-golf-mk4-4x4/

My concern is the price difference. Anyone had any experience with the Silver Project ones? They're only 100 Euros, compared to the £230 of the Cookbot bars, and I know you tend get what you pay for, but the price gap just seems a bit excessive.

I'm at a bit of a loss, so any advice would be very much appreciated.

 

[CBauto Solutions]

The choice is up to to you, but to let you know, it costs me more to make mine than the all up price of those cheap ones.

Stainless steel isn't cheap! The RRP of the Superpro bush I use is about £60 too!

 

[VAG-Slag]

The bits I've had from SilverProjects have been top quality (camber/castor top mounts and thermal gasket), I couldn't comment specifically on their arms... That does seem cheap though!

 

[shotgun]

I've been running a set of silver project ones for a few months, and all is good so far. I was planning on fabricating my own set but for less than £100 including postage I figured I would give them a go. The quality is far better than the price suggests, although the polybushes that come pre-installed are softer than powerflex/superpro etc.

 

[goodbuzzman1]

I was making the same decision not so long ago and after lots of research I bought the cookbot ones based on the sales pitch from Mr. Cookbot himself explaining the materials and construction process of his product. Glad I did too as they are solid and look savage too. I replaced my rose joints too at the same time for good measure

 

[Drysdaro]

Thanks for the advice folks. Looks like I'll be making the decision based on how much money I have to throw at the car.

Mr Cookbot, I have no doubt that your items are of the highest quality, and if money wasn't a bit of a hassle right now I would buy them without any hesitation!

 

[ayfreetee]

Depending on the grade of the stainless (304,312,316 ect), can bind with the fittings and even snap easier than mild steel, it is generally stronger than mild steel, but more brittle.

 

[CBauto Solutions]

It is true that dissimilar metals can set up a galvanic cell, so stainless/mild steel will corrode more easily than Mild/mild, but it's the job of the sacrificial zinc and thick powdercoating that deals with this (also why superpro bushes use mild, not stainless for the bush casings).

It's also not true that an Austenitic stainless steel will reach its ultimate tensile strength before mild steel does. what may give this appearance is that as stainless can't be heat treated and is wrought into it's final shape, the grain structure it attains makes it brittle, but is still stronger than similar sized mild if that makes sense. Comparing a stress x strain graph of both materials would make this easier to explain.

Just a little waffle for those who are curious

If you're happy to take a punt on some cheaper ones, then go for it I say. It just sometimes pays to stretch that little more on occasions, but you might get away with it.

Paul

 

[snowy]

If you're happy to take a punt on some cheaper ones, then go for it I say. It just sometimes pays to stretch that little more on occasions, but you might get away with it.

Paul

Taking on board your own advise then

Why buy yours ?

Forge have many years of design evolution over your cheaper ones

 

[CBauto Solutions]

Because they will start to corrode after a year, while my test ones look like this after 2 years:

A kia Rio will get you from A to B, but that doesn't alter the fact they're *****!

As for forge, I don't have much against their products except they cost a million pounds for what they are. As for years of evolution, the first bars were just bodged OE ones, so more like doing it right when they realised they were cack.

 

[snowy]

So basically you're going to try to sell your stuff by slandering others ?

Pretty low way of doing business

I suggest rather than slandering away you actually take a look at the other tie bar offering and look how to improve your somewhat simplistic and weak looking fork design

FYI - the Forge's are only £100 more than your offering, not a lot considering

 

[CBauto Solutions]

No, I'm just giving impartial facts of my own parts and showing evidence to support this and giving my opinion as to what I think will be come of the other parts as the OP asked for. It's up to them to make a well informed choice.

As for weak simplistic design, structural simulation and actual testing says it's strong enough in that location without the need for additional (read cost increasing) bracing.

This is going to become one of those threads on youtube that goes on forever and doesn't benefit anyone, so I'll be leaving it here.

 

[Drysdaro]

As OP I'm gonna just step in here and say this:

I don't think anyone has any doubt about the quality of the Cookbot tie arms, while at the same time we can't deny that the Silver Project items are very reasonably priced.

If I had the money I would buy the CB bars, but as the Silver Project ones exist at such a low price for what seems to be a set of quality items, it seems foolish not to have a little ask around and see if the community has any experience with them, be that positive or negative.

We've covered some solid ground in this thread, and I hope it can be of some assistance to anyone in my situation in the future.

As for my decision, I think I'll do as shotgun has done and give the Silver Project ones a punt. New tyres (potentially wheels) and spacers are on the approaching horizon, so money is making it's presence, or rather it's absence, felt here.

If anyne has anything more to say on the Silver Project bars I've yet to finalise a purchace, so I'll still be listening.

If things transpire as it looks they will, then I'll post pics up of the Silver Project tie arms up when I take delivery of them, to further assist anyone contemplating a purchace.

 

[badger5]

So basically you're going to try to sell your stuff by slandering others ?

Pretty low way of doing business

I suggest rather than slandering away you actually take a look at the other tie bar offering and look how to improve your somewhat simplistic and weak looking fork design

FYI - the Forge's are only £100 more than your offering, not a lot considering

Not exactly slandering is it...
Sounds more like just showing how "others" regardless of any "brand names" have made/supplied bars which were inadequate and went on to fail.
Remembering the spherical joints on the hubs can seize and cause any arm to be twisted in a manner it was never designed to do..
Std ones from Audi Fail.. Lest you forget.

The Silverline ones from the picture look lesser at the ends that cookbots ones.. Given this is the ends which on the bars fails, and obviously highest stress, that in itself makes me favour cookbots

I've bought several of his, and they have been good quality.

Buyers choices as ever...
pays ya money and takes ya choice

 

[samurai]

I would not have any of these two options on my car

 

[badger5]

I would not have any of these two options on my car

LOL
thanks for sharing

............. no let us guess why................ lol

tease

 

[samurai]

its simple mate: because it is not properly welded none of them . Its vertical welded (by the inside bushes) and thats not right, look how is welded by factory and you will know what i mean. Check all (or atleast manny of them) where they get break. Its a lot of picture on web site (even here on this forum) of breaking adjustable tie arms even from forge and all others.I have a feeling that some underestimate the forces on tie arms generated while driving oh yeah and one more thing i also wouldnt have adjustible tie arms on the lower side, i know it sounds funny but the forces are different

 

[badger5]

beg to differ..
the ones I've had from CB have been fine... and better than OE in construction

 

[ayfreetee]

Just wondering, has anyone had cut, shut and boxed standard arms, I'm sure if it's done properly by an experienced welder, would be as strong if not stronger than adjustable arms, it's just knowing how much needs to be added or removed from the arms for the amount of drop.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Just wondering, has anyone had cut, shut and boxed standard arms, I'm sure if it's done properly by an experienced welder, would be as strong if not stronger than adjustable arms, it's just knowing how much needs to be added or removed from the arms for the amount of drop.

This was how Forge did theirs originally iirc

<tuffty/>

 

[samurai]

i did that

 

[ayfreetee]

Does anybody know how much needs to be added to the top arms, or removed from the bottom arms to give the correct adjustment for a 25mm suspension drop? I am thinking of doing this for my car.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Does anybody know how much needs to be added to the top arms, or removed from the bottom arms to give the correct adjustment for a 25mm suspension drop? I am thinking of doing this for my car.

That's what alignment is for... Lowering adjusts toe as well as camber so a 4 wheel alignment is needed

Each car is different anyway and doing it without getting an alignment can do more harm than good

<tuffty/>

 

[ayfreetee]

Okay thanks, I think I will stick standard height and arms for now.

 

[ayfreetee]

Oh by the way, it's on GmbH springs, so it's not quite as Land Rover ish as it could be, lol.

 

[snowy]

Not exactly slandering is it...
Sounds more like just showing how "others" regardless of any "brand names" have made/supplied bars which were inadequate and went on to fail.

Strictly speaking I suppose its closer to libel

An allegation has been made by one manufacturer to buy thier product over anothers specifically because it will corrode

No evidence has been provide of this happening

Silver Project are a company who's kit in general seem to have received positive feedback, so seems a tab unfair for someone to get away with slating their stuff without ever having seen it

 

[snowy]

structural simulation

So why not sell your kit by showing some nice coloured screenshots of some transient dynamic analysis rather using the line 'buy my because the others will fail'

 

[CBauto Solutions]

Like I said, I'm done arguing in this thread in which people have already formed their opinions and any evidence given would make sod all difference to change said opinion.

 

[S3AMJ]

This thread is going off topic......... I bought some cheap blue ones off eBay about 3 months ago, cost me £160 delivered, no idea what brand they are, adjustable both ends though, which has no real advantage, Seem to be doing the job. Can't really comment on either silver project or CB's but everything I've seen so far from CB's stuff looks very precisely engineered. He obviously does his homework in that department.

 

[Drysdaro]

Right, so bought the Silver Project tie arms and fitted them last weekend. They seem solid enough, more so in the flesh than in pictures, but I'll post a few pics of them out the box and on the car, in case anyone is thinking about buying a set.

They were as simple to fit as you'd imagine. Had to tweak the outboard ends slightly to get them to fit over the bushes on the trailing arm, but no big deal.

All in all I'm pretty satisfied for £87.52 including delivery.

 

[Grale1]

Hi mate I just bought a set of these myself but how did you get them so cheap

 

[Drysdaro]

I just went through the Silver Project site, the link in my first post. I think it was €120 delivered which worked out at £87.52. Bargain, really.

 

[badger5]

Strictly speaking I suppose its closer to libel

An allegation has been made by one manufacturer to buy thier product over anothers specifically because it will corrode

No evidence has been provide of this happening

Silver Project are a company who's kit in general seem to have received positive feedback, so seems a tab unfair for someone to get away with slating their stuff without ever having seen it

lol
got to luv closet internet lawyers

 

[badger5]

Right, so bought the Silver Project tie arms and fitted them last weekend. They seem solid enough, more so in the flesh than in pictures, but I'll post a few pics of them out the box and on the car, in case anyone is thinking about buying a set.

View attachment 66036 View attachment 66037 View attachment 66038 View attachment 66039 View attachment 66040

They were as simple to fit as you'd imagine. Had to tweak the outboard ends slightly to get them to fit over the bushes on the trailing arm, but no big deal.

All in all I'm pretty satisfied for £87.52 including delivery.

given how rusty your underside looks, did you check the spherical joint was no seized in the hub end? Thats the usual cause of snapping the rear tie bars.

 

[snowy]

lol
got to luv closet internet lawyers

Its about doing buisiness in fair, decent honest way

Not something you have much respect for I guess

 

[Drysdaro]

given how rusty your underside looks, did you check the spherical joint was no seized in the hub end? Thats the usual cause of snapping the rear tie bars.

Changed all four for the new rubber bush type joints. The old parts were all surprisingly smooth still.

 

[badger5]

Its about doing buisiness in fair, decent honest way

Not something you have much respect for I guess

lol, you don't know me so I suggest you don't start making such statements as above... Wind your neck in. you GUESS WRONG


I am well aware of folks who throw sh1t at others having been on the receiving end, when its unfounded and done to promote themselves.
Sad reflection on the others. internet warriors. 1000's of them...

hence the lol @ internet legal kinda comments. They get you no where

Now, in terms of the ACTUAL post content... I do agree with the concerns pointed out for the silverline ones and the welded abutment of the threaded portion onto the end plate. This is where arms almost always fail.. We see more than a few of s3daves ones snapping in the same position... Not same construction, but same welded joint. That is my personal Engineering concern from the pictures I see. Now, I don't make and sell these things so this is neither libelous or litigious in any way, but an Engineering Opinion based on failures of bars I do see, and the pictures I see here. On that basis, I would not buy them myself. Their price is their appeal of course. I hope they are fine.

 

[snowy]

I am well aware of folks who throw sh1t at others having been on the receiving end, when its unfounded and done to promote themselves.
Sad reflection on the others. internet warriors. 1000's of them...

Which was exactly the scenario here, so I fail to see why your neck is so wound out

Personally I actually share you're concerns about the silverline welding, at both ends (and in general tbh - some of their welding on their kit is a bit 'minimal' on close inspection)

However the cb ones are weak in areas where silverlines are apparently stronger

On the specific claim that raised over corrosion resistance, worth noting the silverlines are zinc plated

They're basic design is also less likely to trap muck and dirt, vs the cb's exposed opening to the tube interior

imo both designs could be greatly improved

 

[superkarl]

I stumbled across these in a weight reduction thread on the TT forum. The owner made these himself and clearly has some experience and knowledge in engineering and fabrication.

He utilised T45 steel tube and plate, 12.9 grade threaded steel rod, 'fish mouthed' the ends to increase the welded area, as well as drilling and 'rose welding' the holes for the same reason.

Prior to fabrication of the hub end, fish mouthed and drilled as you can see:

The fella made these non adjustable on the car, so had to be set up prior to fitting, using spacers on the threaded rod, which is another great idea as when tight, the shim will take some torque off the thread itself, not that it needs it being high tensile 12.9 steel, good for 200,000psi I think.

I think they are a great design, lots of details, gussets on the 'fork' at the hub. And I think despite the awkwardness of using spacers to adjust them, it could be altered on the car by undoing the hub end, removing the 'fork' and fitting relevant spacers, I don't think this is too bad a solution, as once setup, the results are permanent and rarely altered anyway.

 

[badger5]

Which was exactly the scenario here, so I fail to see why your neck is so wound out

Personally I actually share you're concerns about the silverline welding, at both ends (and in general tbh - some of their welding on their kit is a bit 'minimal' on close inspection)

However the cb ones are weak in areas where silverlines are apparently stronger

On the specific claim that raised over corrosion resistance, worth noting the silverlines are zinc plated

They're basic design is also less likely to trap muck and dirt, vs the cb's exposed opening to the tube interior

imo both designs could be greatly improved

the welding aspects are what lead to the failures... Corrosion on old bars for sure could obviously play a part..
CB ones are sturdy made having seen and used them a few times