Shoomakan's Intro and Build Thread.

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Hello everybody,

Before I begin, I'd like to thank whichever moderators took care of my account. I've been a lurking member here for months, but for some reason I wasn't able to post. @Chlippo took care of that for me, nice guy that he is.

So, a few months ago I purchased this lovely S3. It's @Chlippo's old car, so I'm sure a few of you recognize it.
11846786_10153650728312668_7191328602593160429_n.jpg


The mods that came on the car:

-K04 hybrid (not sure which, I'll need Chlippo to fill that in for me)
-Relentless Manifold
-Relentless-3" downpipe
-Forge 007 DV
-autobahn88 TIP
-K&N Panel filter,
-R32 anti roll bars
-550cc injectors
-Mitsubishi Evo FMIC
-Neuspeed short shifter.

Car made 259 to the front wheels with the way it is now. It's zippy but of course, I want MOAR.

The car still has the stock exhaust, though. I'm currently tossing up whether or not to go with a high quality cutout solution, or a full 3" exhaust. I'm leaning towards the cutout as it gives all the benefits of a 3" exhaust (more even as it is much shorter), and yet retains stock exhaust and volume with the cutout closed (for morning starts, neighbors, and cruising). Saw a few clips online and loved it.

I've also ordered a Liquid Gauge that should arrive by Monday. Can't wait to fit that in.

Anyway, tomorrow the car is going in for some work. Namely:
12240252_10153902508587668_7950022293584677745_o.jpg


034 Engine/tranny mounts, Scat rods (144x20mm), 034 motorsport flywheel, and Badger5 80mm TIP (the one I have is stock size). Also being installed but not pictured are a methanol kit, 034 Motorsport shifter bushings and linkages. As per @badger5 's recommendations, I will also be porting the turbo hot side and exhaust manifold on the way. I hope it'll hit 280-290 to the wheels with all those mods mentioned. Fingers crossed.

After I'm done with these power mods, there are a couple of other things on the list for me. I need to refurbish the steering wheel, so I'm going to have it upholstered either in perforated leather, or alcantara. Still haven't made up my mind. Also, I purchased a set of 6.5" Phoenix Gold components with amp that I want to fit in the car. Figured instead of putting a big sub box in the back, having 4 decent mid range components and high quality tweeters would do me just as well. I was going to fit the aftermarket sub boxes in the back, but since I will most likely be relocating the methanol tank there, I decided against it.

Comments, thoughts and opinions always welcome. Nice to meet you all, and looking forward to getting to know you all. Cheers.
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
Welcome to the forum :)

Very smart car, and an excellent base to take further!

I look forward to seeing what you do with it :)
 

Chlippo

Registered User
Welcome buddy!

Turbo is a Hybrid from Dan (BeachBuggy) BBT. I guess everyone here knows what it is :) but I forgot the specs.

You will find all the info you need on the forum, and I am sure you have already read the stickies more than once lol

enjoy the awesome forum, and the amazing helpfull members!
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Well, if all goes to plan I'll have my car back on Wednesday. The good news is, engine crosshatching is still very evident and clear, which indicates good health. Piston rings are still "sharp", bearings are practically new, turbo is still practically brand new, many signs of a very healthy and clean motor. I'm quite pleased with that. :) I'm sure my and Chlippo's religious oil changes every 3500-4000km do more harm that good after all. :D

Anyway, like I've stated before, the car made 259fwhp last time Chlippo took it to get dynoed. I'm gonna throw in the Badger5 tip, 3" exhaust, and give it another go. I'd like to see the gains I get from those 2 mods. We also checked to see if we could port it, anything past the 40mm it was already at means eating into the gasket, so I let it be. :( I probably have a slightly different setup than the one mentioned in the "porting k04 hotside-worth it" thread. Everything is already port matched and not as big as the ones in the thread.

Lastly, when I install the methanol next month, I'll take it in again. I'd like to know how much that mod alone adds, too!

Hopefully I'll be able to tell you how happy I am with the Liquid gauge and new motor mounts in a few days. And whether or not the lightweight flywheel was the single best or worst idea I've ever done on a small displacement turbo engine. :p

Cheers everyone!

ps: sad tiny hybrid pics for scale. :p
12295284_10153925484642668_7494423706684245412_n.jpg
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Chlippo

Registered User
Do post pics of the hotside...im wondering why it is different. It should be the same setup..

And of course take good pictures and instructions on how does the B5 Tip fit on a LHD car. I am sure plenty of people would apreciate it
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Do post pics of the hotside...im wondering why it is different. It should be the same setup..

And of course take good pictures and instructions on how does the B5 Tip fit on a LHD car. I am sure plenty of people would apreciate it

Hmm, that may be difficult. Matrix has already assembled the engine and knowing him, he probably managed to put it back in today. I'll call him tomorrow morning and ask him to take as many pictures of brake line modification/TIP fitment as he can.

Flywheel/clutch/PP were mated to engine today, and most engine ancillaries were put in place. Andon also offered me a completely free engine tune up, silicone pipe kit, and engine bay cleaning if I replaced my car with an Evo. :p

Unfortunately, I don't think I can take pics of manifold and hotside that would help at this point. They were bolted on already today.

note: "Matrix" is the nickname @Chlippo and I have given our mechanic. He looks alot like Agent Smith from the Matrix, so we just call him "Matrix" now as "Agent Smith" doesn't quite roll off the tongue. Andon is his partner/friend/mechanic.
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Hey everyone,

So I got Pamela back today. To remind people who haven't read up, I installed an 034 lightweight flywheel (and reinforced clutch/PP), SCAT 144x20mm rods, 034 Motorsport engine and tranny mounts, and a Liquid gauge display. Here are my first impressions after driving it 100km today.

The flywheel has a slight grinding noise at idle and near idle engine speed (800-1200rpm). It does not chatter on my setup (reinforced OEM PP and clutch). Engine is *much* more responsive, and it seems to build boost quicker. Launching uphill is more difficult, but not as much as I thought it would be. If you're a good stick shift driver, it won't bother you. It didn't bother me (especially if you can heel/toe. I can't as my feet are too big). Revs also fall much quicker. All in all, I'm immensely enjoying it so far and don't regret it at all.

The Badger5 tip fits my LHD car, but the brake lines digging into its side aren't doing it any favors. It's ovaled where it meets the lines, and seems to be restricted. As for bending the lines out of the way, I see no way where the TIP will mount and be completely unaffected. One observation is that if I raise the TIP upwards towards the hood, it gets noticeably better, but the filter is then pushed back down when I close the hood. I'm going to buy a metal pipe, place it in the TIP, and broaden the angle as much as I can while bringing the filter as far to the side air vent as possible. I don't think it can be done better without some serious head scratching. That being said, the item is top notch quality and looks like alot of thought went into it. Shame @badger5 doesn't develop a LHD model that would magically fit perfectly. I'd buy one again if they did. It is my mechanic's opinion that it is still far better than the previous Autobahn 88 TIP that was on the car, and worlds better than the stock TIP.

The mounts are also excellent thus far. I got the track density ones. The reason I can't report on NVH right now is because the new mounts have moved my downpipe slightly, a couple of mm in the wrong direction. The result of this is it is permanently touching the subframe underneath, causing massive drone and vibration inside the car. I will be rectifying this problem over the weekend and will then report on NVH then. So far, however, there is a noticeable decrease in drivetrain slop, and shifting while cornering has gotten easier. Uphill starts also don't judder the car anymore.

The Liquid gauge is an awesome piece of kit. Readings are quick to populate and seem to be quite accurate. Wasn't a hassle to install, although you need to dis-assemble the fuse box frame and the console under the steering wheel to fit the cable properly. My only gripe with it so far is I can't figure out how to change the readouts in the "multi-gauge" setting. I'd like to have different items displayed. I haven't yet checked online if I can even do so, so I may be wrong.

Overall, the car feels noticeably better under boost and seems to pull harder to 0.4-0.5 bar. Not pushing it for a few hundred kilometers as I changed piston rings and bearings, and want to break it in properly. Don't know if it's due to TIP or LWFW or engine refresh, or all, but the car feels like it makes more power under the boost threshold. It's going up the road to my house in 5th@100kph while needing less throttle input/boost than before (road in question is steep. 800m altitude in 7-8 minutes). Takes sharp mountain corners comfortably in 2nd now, while I'd need to drop to 1st before to be able to accelerate comfortably away.

All in all, I'm very happy with all the products I bought from 034 Motorsport (except the shift linkage which doesn't fit. Seems they sent MK4 GTI ones or something). Quality is top notch and they were quick to ship. The Liquid gauge is also excellent and highly recommended for someone who doesn't want gauges in the car or likes having a few gadgets (or both!).

I'll keep you up to date as time goes on and keep giving you my impressions. Still have to install the shifter bushings, methanol kit, and retune the car next month.

Cheers all!
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
got pictures of the TIp and the brake pipes pushing into it?

I do indeed. I'm going out in a bit but will try to post them by tonight. Cheers.
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Hey everyone, just wanted to update you guys a little as it's been a while. A few things have happened recently, so here goes. :)

First off, I had my first Auto X event in this car. I'm sad to say that I went in too aggressively and ended up scraping my fender against one of the walls there. Truth be told, I made an error in judgement. My first lap around the track, I tried and tried to use the hand brake to rotate the car, but it wouldn't have it. The asphalt was grippy, and a drift event had been held there the previous day, so it was swept clean and laid down with plenty of rubber, which made it even grippier. So instead of rationalizing this like a normal human being, I clenched my teeth and pushed harder, picking up more speed in an attempt to force the rear around through sheer force of will. The car still didn't want to rotate, and by the time I realized it wasn't going to I was already going too fast. So I scraped it. :(

I 9e5a9f46-4e4a-4908-8c20-827da3b67d65.jpg

Got it back from the bodyshop last week, had the guy there fab up a mesh grill to cover the intercooler at the front of the car, like so: 20160315042558.jpg

20160315042558 (1).jpg

So, after experiencing my first Auto-X event, I decided the car was in dire need of some suspension upgrades. So I ordered adjustable LCA's for the rear, and camber plates for the front. They should arrive in a couple of weeks, and hopefully be a worthwhile upgrade. Any advice from you track racers over here on how to set front and rear camber? I want the car to have a more oversteery character as that what I need for those short and twisty events. My thoughts were -1.5 in the front and 0 in the back. Any input on that?

I also intend to find/buy myself a set of Euro-spec R32 ARB's front and rear. I have US spec units that are smaller. Anyone here want to chime in, if they've done this mod? Worth it, or should I just buy a set of H&R's or something similar?

On to the next order of business, I took the car to the dyno yesterday. It seems my previous hopes were met, as the car made 281 horsepower to the tires. For what it's worth, before I installed @badger5's turbo inlet pipe and 3" exhaust, my previous dyno figure was 259 to the wheels. That's a 22 whp gain, ladies and gentlemen. Well worth the money spent. I think it's a great graph to have, too. Here it is, tell me what you think.

20160315000241.jpg

I'm confused as to why it peaks so early. Is it because it's a K04-based unit? If so, a stock S3 should peak in the mid 6000's range. I'm confused as to why I'd be lower than this, not higher. For what it's worth, my boost peaks at around the 5750 mark (1.5 bar) and then moves down to 1.3 bar towards 6500, which coincides with this graph. I just am a little bit miffed my 1.8T peaks lower than my old 4.0 V8 did. :p (although truth be told, it makes so much more average power that it is noticeably faster on the road).

If my math is correct, this means my car is pumping out around 335 horsepower at the crank, which seems to make sense considering the mods on it. @beachbuggy's hybrid is doing a swell job so far.

Anyway, I got home last night and ordered a methanol kit to see just how far I could go. I'm shooting for 300whp, which I think is realistic (around 370hp crank). Hopefully it'll make it, won't be upset if it doesn't. The car moves great, can dish out alot of punishment for its size, and returns great fuel economy. I'm genuinely getting more and more pleased with my little S3. :)

I'm still hesitant about a turbo upgrade and all that entails. I'm leaning towards a GTX2867 for the moment. ATP sell an eliminator GTX2867 that is a stock fitment unit. In my mind it should fit on my Relentless manifold and downpipe as they are also stock location units, but I could be wrong. Please correct me if I am.

Another option is a proper top mount log type unit with a bigger turbo. What confuses me about that build is what downpipe I'd use. Would I have to make a custom one, or does someone sell a down pipe for transverse 1.8T's with a log type manifold and bigger turbo?

Hope you're all good, and as always, thanks for your time.
 
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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
If using a GTX28 I would personally go v-band tubular manifold, external gate.... pointless using the relentless on a $1400 turbo

Personally I don't think the GTX turbos really suit 1.8t's... generally have to be run very hard to get anything out of them and not seen a GTX2867 breeze 400hp... if using for track I'd say 350hp for reliability...it will do that all day long and be more reliable than a hybrid K04 at the same power levels

I'd personally fit a GT3076r and keep boost sensible...

<tuffty/>
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Hey guys,

So I installed the methanol kit last week and hit the dyno today. Results are in:

On the same dyno in warmer weather, the methanol kit and corresponding bump in timing netted me an increase of 22 horses to the wheels, 5lb peak figure but alot more average torque throughout the band. Also, power is peaking later now, something I definitely felt while driving it.

Loss rate is set at 20% based on what I've read on the forums. Some assume 23% in fwd more, I went for the more conservative 20%. I'm quite happy with the car as it is.. For now. :p

ps: lower figures are my first run last month. Dyno operator was kind enough to overlay them for me. There are 2 sets of lines if you look closely enough.

IMG-20160412-WA0041.jpg
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
I make 380 at 1.8 bar with a t25 gtx2867.
It's a lot of boost in the grand scheme of things, but the gtx are made for that it seems, and with temps kept in check you're going to be alright. But, I agree with everything tuffty says above, external gate, more power potential and lower temperatures = more reliable and safer on the engine.
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Installed some new wheels over the weekend. 19x8.5, tire size 235/35/19. They came off of a Subaru as I understand it, bolt pattern was fine but I needed hubcentric rings to mount them correctly.

Zero rubbing, ET is perfect, still have plenty of room between the shock and the rim, and they're spaced perfectly (in my opinion). Ironically, those 19's only weigh a touch more than my fat 5's... I'm going to install coilovers but keep the ride height identical. I need new shocks anyway so I figured I'd buy the PSS's since I can also adjust height.

I could get away with 245 section tires, but 235/35/19 is the closest I found that matches the stock wheel diameter (or as close as it can be). These wheels are probably not for everyone so I'm sure some of you won't like them, but I'm happy with them so far. :)
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VAG-Slag

Registered User
Ooosssh... Strong choice!

Looks tough on them *thumbs up emoji*

(Where the hell is the thumbs up emoji guy these days!?)
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Hey everyone, been a while since I last updated you guys (but I lurk here every. single. day!) so I've got a question or two.

I finally installed my Bilstein coilovers last night. I've been reading about suspension setup(s) and I wanted someone here to weigh in for me on what I've done, and if I should have done something else.

What I've done is thus: -1.8 degrees of camber in the front, -0.5 degrees of camber in the back (via Silver Project camber plates up front, and same brand adjustable control arms in the rear). Toe in front is 0, toe in the rear is towards the inside of the car which I've read promotes a "looser" rear end, something I desire in my car. As for ride height, I raised the coils all the way up before installing and then lowered them until my control arms were horizontal. If I understand what I've read correctly, having the control arms horizontal maintains the proper suspension geometry of the car, and doesn't stress front suspension joints and bushings any more than stock ride height would. The end result is that Pamela looks like I feel a modern sporty RS3 would be stanced from the factory. ~1.5 cm between tire and fender.

Now, we're coming in to winter here, and since I live in the mountains and will encounter snow, I decided the current ride height is good enough to pass this season. But, since I feel it's kinda redundant to install coils for a sporty OEM ride height, I was wondering how I could further lower the car WITHOUT compromising its handling or suspension component reliability. I did some searching on ASN, and the consensus is the car starts causing serious rubbing issues when lowered past 40mm, requiring the use of drop links. I'm never going to lower it that far, though, so I don't know what to do with that information.

So my question is thus: if I lower the car another ~1.5cm or so, will I be negatively affecting any component in the suspension? If I would be, what part do I need to purchase to overcome this issue? I realize having a very stiff static setup eliminates some stresses in the bushings and joints, but since I drive the car on actual ****** Lebanese roads that's not how I want to solve my problem. Point me in the right direction!

Here's a pic of Pamela at the alignment shop. It's getting dark early here so I don't have a proper pic of the car, my apologies!

WhatsApp Image 2016-10-26 at 10.51.55 AM.jpeg
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Well since I was flooded with replies and couldn't make sense of it all, @Prawn, can you help me out? You track yours IIRC and I'm sure you know more than I do about suspension setup. @Madmax199, I request your input too if you're kind enough to bestow it.
 

tcg

Registered User
Well since I was flooded with replies and couldn't make sense of it all

I know you're going to be disappointed when you read this reply but I just couldn't bear to see you suffer in silence :sorry:

Perhaps this will bump up an answer from someone who can help,unfortunately that's not me :blush: as you're way above my level.
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
To answer your question, how far at the end range of adjustment are your camber/toe NOW, prior to any further lowering.

That will tell you all you need to know in lowering it further without things like tie bars, bushes etc
 

tomjol

Registered User
No input from me except that I like your style - bothered about the geometry and not just "how low can I get it" or "which height looks best".
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
So my question is thus: if I lower the car another ~1.5cm or so, will I be negatively affecting any component in the suspension?

It would need realignment at the very least... S3 front hubs have a better geometry setup than the A3 and sit the arms flatter when lowered...

Prawns A3 is considered to be one of the better handling 8L's on the forum and he is using pretty much the same setup you have up front so it is what is is..

Beyond that its going down the route @Madmax199 has taken with his...

There are a few threads kicking about on vortex but here is one for starters
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5197012-Let-s-talk-TT-suspension

<tuffty/>
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
No input from me except that I like your style - bothered about the geometry and not just "how low can I get it" or "which height looks best".

Thank you very much. I really appreciate the compliment. I drive Pamela ~40km a day on Lebanese roads (which are less than optimal), and I understand that I need a streetable setup rather than a race track setup. :) Even our hillclimbs are held on ****** roads, so an unforgiving setup will do me more harm than good!

It would need realignment at the very least... S3 front hubs have a better geometry setup than the A3 and sit the arms flatter when lowered...

Prawns A3 is considered to be one of the better handling 8L's on the forum and he is using pretty much the same setup you have up front so it is what is is..

Beyond that its going down the route @Madmax199 has taken with his...

There are a few threads kicking about on vortex but here is one for starters
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5197012-Let-s-talk-TT-suspension

As always, thanks for the info. I'll give that thread a read now. Alignment isn't an issue for me as it is cheap to do here (~$20) and I'm not against some trial and error to get it right.

I know you're going to be disappointed when you read this reply but I just couldn't bear to see you suffer in silence :sorry:

Perhaps this will bump up an answer from someone who can help,unfortunately that's not me :blush: as you're way above my level.

It seems your kind efforts have paid off. Appreciate it and the compliment, although I believe we just use our cars for different purposes and thus have a different understanding of them. Thanks again. :)

To answer your question, how far at the end range of adjustment are your camber/toe NOW, prior to any further lowering.

That will tell you all you need to know in lowering it further without things like tie bars, bushes etc

Camber before was set to -2.2 degrees, which I believe is the maximum on those plates/OEM control arms. So I have a bit more adjustment left I think. But I felt my braking diminish with that much camber, as well as an odd aquaplaning feel at high speeds when going straight. So I opted for 0.5 degrees less this time, and it feels better. So far. :D As for toe, unless camber plates can modify that as well, I'm using OEM components to adjust that. I think that limits my toe in-out adjustment to whatever the OEM components will allow, no?

While I understand how camber works, and have a rough idea how toe affects the car's handling, I by no means have a full grasp of the whole thing. Hopefully some stuff will be cleared up when I give the thread Tuffty linked a read.
 

Shoomakan

Grand Nagus
Hey guys and girls, it's me, your favorite askhole again. :)

I'm having some issues with my tune, and I wanted to run it by you guys as I'm sure you have a better idea on what to do than I do. Before I lay out my options, I want to clarify that I understand how powerful the ME7.5 is, so much so that as I understand it tuffty is still using it on his quite powerful S3. Now that that's out of the way, here's what is going on.

I have no brake boost. Every time I so much as look at the brake pedal when the throttle pedal is applied, it cuts power.

I also have this HORRIBLE lag/boost cut/whatever it is when I shift gears quickly. Car is moving grand, I shift a gear, car feels like it hit a wall. Rinse and repeat.

I don't want to flat shift, don't get me wrong. I'm not even shifting quick enough to get a complaint from the tranny! But this phenomenon is probably the biggest complaint I have. It is so bad.

I started reading into ME7.5 tuning last night, and it left me more confused than informed. I honestly don't know where to start. I found this resource: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5496661-Ongoing-DIY-Tuning-Bosch-ME7.5-for-1.8t

And this resource: http://www.cepavw.org/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=22354

While I know it feels like an insurmountable mountain right now, I'm sure in a few weeks I'll have a much better idea of what I need to do. But there's no questioning that it isn't as easy as other ECU's to pick up and tune (in my opinion at least).

So, after a couple of days of reading and learning, I feel like I have a few options, and I'd like some opinions (I love this part). :D

1. Buy all the tools referenced in the VWvortex guide, and try to start figuring out all of this BS.
2. Somehow have a tuner check my tune and "fix" whatever is going on to cause this.
3. Invest in a Eurodyne Maestro Tuning Suite for the 1.8t with ME7.5. (This is still not certain as an option because Eurodyne are awaiting my ECU part number to verify it is compatible, as the S3 1.8T isn't listed as a compatible vehicle for this device). Here's the link: http://www.eurodyne.ca/shop/volkswagen/stage-3-maestro-tuning-suite-awp/
4. Invest in a stand-alone ECU such as AEM Infinity or Link with the appropriate plug in harness. I have the least amount of info on this.

While I'm sure there's a few ponies left I haven't accessed (we couldn't tune properly after the meth kit as the cable my mechanic was using has stopped working), the bigger issue for me is fixing the aforementioned issues and smoothing out everything else if I can.

It's worth noting that I am willing to learn how to tune. We all have to start somewhere, and I have the time to invest in such an undertaking at the moment.
 
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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
I have no brake boost. Every time I so much as look at the brake pedal when the throttle pedal is applied, it cuts power.

You trying to left foot brake? as ME7 as standard will cut throttle if you hit the pedal... it can be coded out mind you...

ME7 tuning is a little tricky to get your head around initially as its load based so there is no real concept of a 'boost' table etc... its all about cylinder fill

Have a read of this...
https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning

...and head over to Nef Moto

<tuffty/>
 
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