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Sachs clutch is slipping - WTF!

RustyBucket Dec 4, 2015

  1. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    I've done just under 8,000 miles since I had the uprated clutch and LUK DMF fitted, about 6,000 at stage 2 and 2,000 at stage 2+, bedded in for about 500 miles, I don't launch the car and it's ****** slipping! Car is a 2006 S3 8P and I thought I first noticed it a week or so ago and confirmed it today. It's only under load at the moment (foot down in 5th or 6th on steep hill) but it's definitely there. I've read on here of people having slipping problems just after putting the clutch in (usually due to incorrect fitment or parts) but mine's been fine up until last week. Seriously pi**ed off, any body got any thoughts, where should I start with this one?
    Cheers
     
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  3. Ibisa3

    Ibisa3 Registered User

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    Can you smell it, if so, does it smell like a classic burning clutch smell?
    Any oil leaks? i'd be having a look round the bottom of the bell housing/gearbox case.
     
  4. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    Nope, all looks fine......
     
  5. Ibisa3

    Ibisa3 Registered User

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    Which map? Stage 2+ is around 360bhp and about the same torque right ?
    Whats the clutch rated to?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  6. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    I think the Sachs is about 400 ft lbs it should easily be capable of managing 2+ so very confused, worth going back to Sachs at this point?
     
  7. Ibisa3

    Ibisa3 Registered User

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    I might consider speaking to whoever fitted it first. Not loosing hydraulic fluid i presume ?
     
  8. smurfworth

    smurfworth Registered User

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    I've read somewhere that the duel mass flywheel version of the clutch is rated to 350 ft lbs and th single mass version is 400 ft lbs. how true that is I don't know but I'm not overly confident about the setup I have, the bite seems to be quite high for the amount of use it's had and way it's been treated but if it does give up on me I'll be putting a spec 3+ one in I think.
     
    Smirky likes this.
  9. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    Hummm, how many miles have you done on yours?
     
  10. smurfworth

    smurfworth Registered User

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    4,400
     
  11. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    I couldn't find any info on ratings for LUK but from all the research I did on here and talking to various tuners this was supposed to be a solid solution, can't be sure if it's the DMF or Clutch and I expect the only way to find out is stripping it down and I'm then spending again......!
     
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  13. bennyball

    bennyball Registered User

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    Are you certain it is slipping and not DMF judder?
     
  14. smurfworth

    smurfworth Registered User

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    My duel mass is shot already anyway, get a vibration between 2000 - 3000 rpm in 6th when not under load. i think the solid solution that most tuners state to a 2+ tuned car was a few years ago, but since then the likes of APR and other tuning has developed producing higher figures and a clutch that was once within its limit is now over its limit.

    if it really is 350 ft lbs that its rated to as stated on dark side developments webpage, and the part numbers match the setup i have, then the clutch does seem a bit out of its depth especially with reported figures of 412 ft lbs from some APR tuned cars.
     
  15. smurfworth

    smurfworth Registered User

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    http://www.darksidedevelopments.co....-disc-for-6-speed-02q-dual-mass-flywheel.html

    Organic Clutch Disc (Sachs Flywheel) - 881864 999502 / 881864999502

    • Rated by Sachs to 355Ft/Lbs+ for the Organic Disc

    Matches the part number that i have in mine but I've never had mine on a dyno so can't say how much torque its putting out. But i know for a fact that if 355 ft.lbs is the clutches limit then APR stage 2+ will be very close to, if not more than that.
     
  16. Gazwould

    Gazwould Registered User

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    Stage 2+ is 370 ftlb so possibly the problem.
     
  17. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Colder more dense air car is probably making more power/torque than in the summer. A small tweak to the map may bring it back under control.
    In the mean time try and avoid making it slip, change down in 5th/ 6th will help.
     
  18. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    The Sachs organic plus DMF I had lasted till around 440lbs,so there must be considerable variation.

    The Spec Stg3+ I have now can deal with nearly 600lbs,so that won't break.
     
  19. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    Wow, I thought this set up was supposed to handle upto 400 ft lbs so that's a bit of a surprise, it seemed to be a popular choice with +2'ers.

    I'd noted this a while back when making a decision about what setup to go for so thought I'd be safe :-(

    That's interesting, it has been happening since it got cooler......
     
  20. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    For sure,cold air will add a percentage of power and torque,so it may be worth turning it down a bit.

    Mine lasted extremely well,and only began to slip at 440lbs,so it may well be that I was fortunate,but a look on Sachs website did quote around 400lbs.
     
  21. smurfworth

    smurfworth Registered User

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    What's your spec like compared to the Sachs Alex? In terms of pedal hardness, how it behaves, what it's like on hill starts and in times that you have to slip the clutch when doing uphil reverses?

    The Sachs doesn't take well to being slipped and constantly stinks on uphill reverses.
     
  22. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    It's as light as the stock clutch to be honest.

    It's fine on hill starts and in traffic provided you don't slip it until it gets really hot.
     
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  23. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    Alex, which flywheel were you using with the Sachs?
     
  24. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    LUK DMF.

    Felt pretty much like stock and worked well until the engine outstretched it.
     
  25. smurfworth

    smurfworth Registered User

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    Got that in mine, 4,000 miles and its wrecked already
     
  26. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    What are you guys driving like....!

    Joking aside,I'm not sure whether this is down to me being lucky(excuse that pun...),or a bad batch or what.
    I agree that DMF's are an engineering solution that simply creates different problems to the ones it solves,but in my case,both clutch and DMF lasted well,with a car turning out significantly more power and torque than anything other than a current spec hybrid or similar.

    It's true that some DMFs appear to last very well,and others disintegrate with the first signs of use.
     
  27. smurfworth

    smurfworth Registered User

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    Umm, I used to drive my tdi faster and harder. Never ever launched the car in all the time I've owned it, don't race of the line, wait until I'm in at least second before giving it a bootful.

    Just use it as a daily, in traffic and sometimes having to slip the clutch to do uphill reverses but not overly often.
     
  28. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    Yup, pretty much the same for me, it doesn't get abused. Alex am I right in thinking you've got a SMF with the spec?
     
  29. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    Correct.

    Its an SMF only setup...I use a steel flywheel.
     
  30. Dt_racing

    Dt_racing Registered User

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    How bizarre. Mine sits at 394lbft with the sachs organic and LUK DMF. I will admit I've only covered about 3000 miles with that torque level but was stage 2+ for about 6000 miles before that, clutch is still strong never a hint of drama from it.
    I wonder how the torque peak is on your map, could be the culprit here?
     
  31. s3_trev

    s3_trev Northern Ireland

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    Quite suprised to see this thread. Bit worrying to be honest, as I also have this clutch with LUK DMF and running Revo Stage 2+. Ive had no issues so far!

    Aint that the truth!! Smells like rotten eggs!!
     
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  32. nluk100

    nluk100 Registered User

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    Stage 2+ can often push over 400lb/ft, especially if the map is very peaky as the boost comes in.
     
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  34. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    The map is nice and smooth but it's definitely around the peak torque mark (4200rpm is what I've seen when it happens) that it's slipping. It was a very warm day when the map was done and was told to expect +15 on the figures with cooler/denser air which is then pushing it closer to the 400lb/ft which might explain things but hugely disappointing :-( I thought I was safe with this setup as don't plan on any more power.



    rr.jpg
     
  35. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    Pulling back the boost or timing a little would trim back the torque,and allow you to get away with zero slip.

    The Revo SPS would let you have 3 settings.....
     
  36. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    New clutch or new map then............:-O
     
  37. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    What software are you running?

    APR,revo and many others offer switchable maps.
     
  38. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    It's an R-Tech map, I'm really pleased with it but....................
    Revo looks quite pricey particularly if you chuck in the SPS, similar to APR from what I can't see but can see the switching option, I suppose I really need to understand if switching will stop the problem or I could end up switching and then having to go for another clutch/DMF as well.
     
  39. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    Have a chat with R-Tech and see what they advise and what they can offer.
     
  40. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    Just phoned them but no answer at the moment, will try in a while and let you know the outcome.
     
    S3Alex likes this.
  41. Smirky

    Smirky Registered User

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    Another thread that has confirmed that saving for the spec 3+ is by far the best option for me
     
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  42. RustyBucket

    RustyBucket Registered User

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    Yes maybe, but from what I can gather this is a pretty unusual situation, most people are fine with the setup for 2+.
     
  43. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    True.

    But if this doesn't work out,the Spec is a good option.
     

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