S5 sportback gearbox issues, really had it

IJB1959

Registered User
Well... Just had a long conversation with a chap and it goes back in W/C 14th so averaging a trip back every 1000 miles!
Last chance saloon as far as I'm concerned.
What I will say is that strictly off the record, even he alluded that this is not an uncommon issue (Which of course we already know) so will contact some higher being whilst they have the car!
As for tuning boxes etc... Why should I?
I'm afraid I simply want the car I was sold, an automatic which changes gear! I don't wish to jeopardise a warranty on a car that potentially looks like it could need a new box!!
I entirely agree with you, but DTUK peddle boxes are not traceable and can easily be unplugged. I am only suggesting ideas to overcome an issue that as yet (or may never be) resolved. TBH the D lag does not bother me that much anymore after 2 years of it, but appreciate that the car is NOT as it should be and would have thought by now that Audi would have had this issue sorted & therefore leads me to think that it is in fact an expensive & major mechanical recall fix they don't want to cover rather than just a simple software issue. For now we appear to have few choices:

1. Find a solution ourselves......peddle box or possible TCU tune
2. Reject/sell the car if you can & buy something else
3. Put up with it

For me, when the lease is up in a year my next car WILL NOT be an Audi anymore and simply because they just take the p**s on any reported issues such as this one (and many others) which by any standard is quite major and well reported particularly given its a 50k car.
 
J

Jonathan Mack

Guest
I entirely agree with you, but DTUK peddle boxes are not traceable and can easily be unplugged. I am only suggesting ideas to overcome an issue that as yet (or may never be) resolved. TBH the D lag does not bother me that much anymore after 2 years of it, but appreciate that the car is NOT as it should be and would have thought by now that Audi would have had this issue sorted & therefore leads me to think that it is in fact an expensive & major mechanical recall fix they don't want to cover rather than just a simple software issue. For now we appear to have few choices:

1. Find a solution ourselves......peddle box or possible TCU tune
2. Reject/sell the car if you can & buy something else
3. Put up with it

For me, when the lease is up in a year my next car WILL NOT be an Audi anymore and simply because they just take the p**s on any reported issues such as this one (and many others) which by any standard is quite major and well reported particularly given its a 50k car.
I
I entirely agree with you, but DTUK peddle boxes are not traceable and can easily be unplugged. I am only suggesting ideas to overcome an issue that as yet (or may never be) resolved. TBH the D lag does not bother me that much anymore after 2 years of it, but appreciate that the car is NOT as it should be and would have thought by now that Audi would have had this issue sorted & therefore leads me to think that it is in fact an expensive & major mechanical recall fix they don't want to cover rather than just a simple software issue. For now we appear to have few choices:

1. Find a solution ourselves......peddle box or possible TCU tune
2. Reject/sell the car if you can & buy something else
3. Put up with it

For me, when the lease is up in a year my next car WILL NOT be an Audi anymore and simply because they just take the p**s on any reported issues such as this one (and many others) which by any standard is quite major and well reported particularly given its a 50k car.
I totally understand what you're saying.
As far as I am aware it's the 8 speed ZF Transmission which is a ****** good box and used in other cars which is what leads me to believe its simply a tech fault!
As for the tuning box, my concern really would be that they alter the readings to the ecu "Fooling" it which could lead to issues down the line. If I was to do it I'd do a proper remap which if course would b**ger the warranty.
It really is a shame as I really do like the car (Aside filling the boot with water if you dare open it when wet!) but it's too much money to have sitting in a faulty product.
Im looking at a cheeky Merc next week but quite honestly would rather keep the S5!
I'll update when I know more.
Thanks all
 

IJB1959

Registered User
Yes, turbo lag is the main issue which the pedal box will fix but the 'lazy' gearbox programming is another issue that for some reason is yet to be resolved, but the box makes a big difference to the D mode 'moving off delay' so I am told. That said, there are still issues with S mode where the box is 'lazy' in changing down from speed.
As you mention there is no risk in having a peddle box fitted. I have had a DTUK ECU tune box fitted for two years and have done 16,000 miles without any issue at all and not even it missing a beat, and the car still performs like an RS5. Even had the car serviced twice (removed box first) without any issue or trace at all. I would have the peddle box fitted without question if the D lag bothered me that much, but it does not as I use both S & D whilst driving....something I am now quite used to doing.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
I know that I have a different gearbox but many who have installed the TCU tune to their zf 8 automatics have stated it reduces the lag to a more acceptable level. Perhaps with the pedal box it may well go even further.
In conjuction with a tuning box it also helps to deliver the torque more efficiently as well as Ihave found...
 

silo24

Registered User
Looks like the ZF is a bit crap into he new A6 too....from Autocar's long term reviewer:

"Well, early doubts have crept in. The first niggle to take root is the significant delay between squeezing the right foot and something actually happening. The eight-speed Tiptronic automatic gearbox is a marvel once moving, with torque apparently endless in whatever gear it has chosen. But when a squirt is most needed, from a standing start at a busy junction or roundabout, or when pulling out to overtake something slow on a straight bit of A-road, the lack of urgency is mildly troubling. Then that diesel torque suddenly kicks in and it all starts happening. It’s a little disconcerting, but perhaps we need to learn how to get the best from it."
 

Gazwould

Registered User
Let's face it all ecu /tcu mapping is limited to a budget in both time and money etc , that's why things can be drastically changed for the better.

I would imagine in D the gearbox takes off in 2nd ? Instead of selecting S does a one second pull of the downshift flappy put it into the lowest possible for maximum acceleration / deceleration ?

I can see why they put in delays of the throttle valve opening with these drive-by-wire autos , so grandma doesn't knock down a 2ft car park wall ( and I've seen the aftermath ) when wrong direction is selected.

Of course the inbuilt delay should never feature on any S or RS Audi .
 

cuke2u

Registered User
The only thing to take into consideration is that these gearboxes are made for BMW, and sold under licence to Audi and we, as users, do not know what software Audi use on them and where that is sourced from.
There could be all kinds of contractual agreements, who knows...
 
J

Jonathan Mack

Guest
Well.... As promised.... Update!.....
Just dropped the car off at Audi for the 5th time (In 5000 miles) and have received a call, apparently there is ANOTHER software update which they have applied purely regarding the transmission, I can't deny I'm dubious but they're keeping it overnight / tomorrow for road tests.
I shall post on my collection.
I've also requested all the Adaption data (Clutch fill times, pressures for all clutches and brakes etc) so as I can cross reference it from what I've obtained from ZF.
Regards all,
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Well done for obtaining the data, I'm really surprised that they let you have though as these things are usually a closely guarded secret. I would wonder as well how much of a difference there is between ZF's figures and BMW's, if any..
 
J

Jonathan Mack

Guest
Well... Software updated... Mechanic took vehicle home TWICE for road tests... Half a tank later... No faults logged and needless to say "Drives as it should."
It's the dreaded Audi "Bodge" of raising the idle; fuel economy has dropped by a few mpg but its early days, I've only driven the car twice since.
I have to say, its much quicker off the mark, obviously not dissimilar to selecting "S." Idles like normal but the moment you begin to raise you foot from the brake it increases the rpm meaning you have to be pretty cautious of the "Creep" because it's off!! It seems to hold gears longer which is pretty annoying and continues to confuse itself on gear selection when approaching junctions. Pretty dissapointed to be honest.
No Adaption data provided as I suspect the 12 year old that dealt with me didn't understand what he'd actually agreed to!
Just for the benefit of others, ZF believe it to be entirely a software issue in that the transmission is receiving incorrect data regarding torque levels, wheel speeds etc thus confusing the box.
I've driven other vehicles with this this transmission and it really is excellent so pretty amazing how Audi have managed to "#uck it up" so badly!
I believe, and don't quote me on this, it is basically a 6 speed box with a double overdrive supplying 7th & 8th. In the few miles I've done since collecting it doesn't seem to like going into 8th until a much higher speed now and once in doesn't comfortably come out but that could be to do with the false inputs now causing it to "Overrev."
I also forgot to tell them not to wash it so currently looks like it's been attacked by a Brillo pad!!
If I decide to keep the car I suspect I'll follow the paths of others, have the update removed and reflash the transmission with the DTUK software, I've heard good reports on it!
Thanks again all, any further updates/advice appreciated.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
The dtuk tcu update will overwrite the software with its own, that is the whole purpose, thus any modified software should not need to be removed.
But check with AS member @ABYSS he'll be able to tell you...
 

Pinky1959

Registered User
Ronmr2
When Audi had the car did they give you a courtesy car (same model ) for you to try and see if all cars are the same ??
 
J

Jonathan Mack

Guest
Ronmr2
When Audi had the car did they give you a courtesy car (same model ) for you to try and see if all cars are the same ??
No, they gave me a new A6 tdi 40 which has the 7 speed DSG. Silky smooth and fast to respond gear box. Totally gutted to get back in mine afterwards!
 

Theodoros Eleftheriou

Registered User
Hi guys, im about to purchase a used Audi S5 after selling my A5 TDi quattro.

I had the same issue with the A5 on junction while on D mode because when you hard brake the ECU is slowly engaging the start/stop mode. When that was off it was better but off course in S mode passing junctions was seamless.

Just let me know if the you have the same problem on the S5 in D mode with start/stop disabled.

Thanks
 

IJB1959

Registered User
Hi guys, im about to purchase a used Audi S5 after selling my A5 TDi quattro.

I had the same issue with the A5 on junction while on D mode because when you hard brake the ECU is slowly engaging the start/stop mode. When that was off it was better but off course in S mode passing junctions was seamless.

Just let me know if the you have the same problem on the S5 in D mode with start/stop disabled.

Thanks
Not quite sure what is happening with your A5, but have had no issue with the S5 other than turbo lag in D mode from standstill.
 
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