S4?

Lee Goodall

Registered User
I'm considering buying an S4 but don't particularly want a high mileage car as my current A4 is mechanically good but has cost me a massive amount of money to keep it that way as the miles are creeping up now.

What would a fair price be? Are there still lower mileage S4s about?

Should I consider another car? Eg. Focus ST (2.5 Turbo) or Subaru WRX etc?

..or new engine in the A4 and tune the t!ts off it?

Looking at doing whatever I decide around April time.
 

Z82

Registered User
I've been looking for an S4 for about 6 month now and all the clean ones seem to be high mileage (150k-ish) and the low mileage ones seem to be rough. If its an Avant youre after there a bit easier to come by.
Dont get a Focus or a Scooby... stick with your S4 plan ;)
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
I've been looking for an S4 for about 6 month now and all the clean ones seem to be high mileage (150k-ish) and the low mileage ones seem to be rough. If its an Avant youre after there a bit easier to come by.
Dont get a Focus or a Scooby... stick with your S4 plan ;)

Yeah an Avant would be good.. I've not seen many S4s under 80000 miles to be honest. My main reason for considering other manufacturers is because I could get something much newer and with less miles on the clock at a similar cost.
 

Blue_Thunder

Registered User
They don't have to be high mileage to cost you a fortune. Mine had <80K when I bought it and i've had to replace loads of parts.

I think age is as much a factor as mileage on these cars as a number of the bits which tend to need replacing are affected by the elements and not just miles, ie: rubber bushes, silicone hoses, exhausts, etc. Mine had 10 candles on it's last cake!
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
Mileage is pretty much irrelevant.

Service history and a detailed list of all the replaced parts is vital.

This is probably the case with most Audis I know but an engine with less wear would be ideal. I would be prepared to pay a bit more for a lower mileage example if I can find one.
 

SonicDeathmonkey

Registered User
My '99 is on 177K and still goes well. It's well looked after, although it's starting to show its age with a few scratches etc. But she still drives lovely!
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
They don't have to be high mileage to cost you a fortune. Mine had <80K when I bought it and i've had to replace loads of parts.

I think age is as much a factor as mileage on these cars as a number of the bits which tend to need replacing are affected by the elements and not just miles, ie: rubber bushes, silicone hoses, exhausts, etc. Mine had 10 candles on it's last cake!

True.. my A4 is around 13 years old and many of the parts that I have replaced have been replaced due to age. Obviously a high mileage older car is likely to need more work.
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
My '99 is on 177K and still goes well. It's well looked after, although it's starting to show its age with a few scratches etc. But she still drives lovely!

That's one of the main reasons for changing my car. The bodywork in general is good but up close there's a few scratches on most panels and it could really do with a full respary. The resparay money could be spent on a new car.
 

Dan Gliballs

Registered User
This is probably the case with most Audis I know but an engine with less wear would be ideal. I would be prepared to pay a bit more for a lower mileage example if I can find one.

OK, you're not listening/getting this then lol,................you're really barking up the wrong tree.

A low mileage car with poor servicing can have more engine wear than a high mileage car that's been serviced to death.

My wonderful 75K mile S4 from Fontain had a list of initial faults as long as your arm.
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
OK, you're not listening/getting this then lol,................you're really barking up the wrong tree.

A low mileage car with poor servicing can have more engine wear than a high mileage car that's been serviced to death.

My wonderful 75K mile S4 from Fontain had a list of initial faults as long as your arm.

I totally understand that. I'm comparing two cars both with full and comprehensive service history, no known issues and both mechanically sound.. one high milage and one low mileage.

I know which one I would go for.
 

Siena

Registered User
Sometimes, low mileage / little use comes with its own set of bugbears.

My car, whilst not an S4, has covered 216,000 miles, and uses no oil between services. It still drives fine, and is as smooth as a V6 12V could ever hope to be.

A client of mine also has another high-miler, a 1995 Audi Coupe S2. As at last April, it had covered 547,000 miles, all it's had major was a turbo, which I replaced at 453,000 miles. He also has an Allroad 2,7T, which he's had from new, and till date, it's had both turbos replaced at 82,000 miles, dual-mass flywheel and clutch at 106,000 miles, ABS module at 72,000 miles (Audi paid 50% of the ABS module).

Current mileage of the Allroad is 122,000 miles, which is quite low for the year, yet he's had so much go wrong with it!
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
I suppose that's a risk that you take with buying any car at the end of the day. It could be a million miles with no issues or 60000 with engine failure.

A full service history and signs of a caring owner are always a good indicator but there's obviously an amount of luck involved unless you can see into the future.
 

Fraser

Registered User
mine might be up for sale - thinking of moving up to an RS4 or a new house purchase may require me to sell

she has 79k and is on a late V plate (nov 99) full facelift saloon cambelt done and with a few extras but still std tune - been assembling and adding bits before a power upgrade. she has wanted for nothing to date and regularly checked and serviced at Unit 20
 

yendall24

Registered User
i have never been keen on low milage older cars it usualy means loads of cold starts short trips around town the engine rarely gets up to temp stop start motoring is no good for cars what better than a high milage car with full service history its spent most of its life on a motorway with a fully warmed up engine and gear box i bought my last a4 10 months ago with 143000 on it i have changed all discs and pads 2 front shocks its now got 154000 and shows no sign of giving up touch wood
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
By 'low mileage' I mean relative to the age.. probably 70k plus but less than 100k would be good. Sort of in the range of 7000 - 9000 miles a year.
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
mine might be up for sale - thinking of moving up to an RS4 or a new house purchase may require me to sell

she has 79k and is on a late V plate (nov 99) full facelift saloon cambelt done and with a few extras but still std tune - been assembling and adding bits before a power upgrade. she has wanted for nothing to date and regularly checked and serviced at Unit 20

I may well be interested mate.. I've got to wait until April for funds to be available but if you're still looking to sell at that time then let me know.
 

aragorn

"Stick a V8 in it!"
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If you fancied a project you'd be better off buying a 2.8 quattro for a grand or two and dropping a V8 into it. Have plenty cash left over to replace all the common failure points like suspension arms etc and for some tasty mods including fitting S4 bumpers etc.
End result would likely be a bit cheaper than buying an off the shelf S4 and you'd know it's going to be **** on.
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
I know it'd be a shame to let her go but I want more power and short of fitting an uprated engine and big turbo setup.. a new 'off the shelf' more powerful car seems the way to go!?

On the subject though.. anybody know of any suppliers of performance AEB engines?.. The sort of thing Backdraft do?

I'll def still be at the Pod but maybe not on the strip as originally planned.
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
If you fancied a project you'd be better off buying a 2.8 quattro for a grand or two and dropping a V8 into it. Have plenty cash left over to replace all the common failure points like suspension arms etc and for some tasty mods including fitting S4 bumpers etc.
End result would likely be a bit cheaper than buying an off the shelf S4 and you'd know it's going to be **** on.

I could've put money on you saying that lol.

I would love to build a project car like this but as it will be my daily driver I can't really be without it for that long and my garage is only just big enough for a small car so I wouldn't have anywhere to actually store the car while work's in progress.

Shame we don't all live closer together.. we could rent a communal workshop!
 

aragorn

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:D aye, gotta get the old V8 plug in!

You could always buy another AEB and build it up to the desired spec, then swap it over.

But the lack of quattro and the difficulties in retrofitting it to a B5 mean thats probably still not a satisfactory solution. Just a pity the B5 doesnt have the common subframe like the B6, as FWD to Quattro conversions on those are pretty much a streight swap.
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
Yeah I think much more power on the FW A4 would be a handful although I do enjoy fighting torque steer (avoiding objects coming the other way is the hard part lol).

I was thinking about getting a fully built high spec AEB and swapping it over as I don't really have time to put one together myself. Add a big turbo and some ECU re-jiggery and I could have 300+HP up my sleeve!

Seems like a lot of work though when I could get an S4 or similar and have the benefit of 4 wheel drive too.
 

Siena

Registered User
V8's definitely the way to go. :ninja:

A 340PS V8 in a FWD B5 will be easier to handle than a 300PS turbocharged I4.

Interestingly, Audi did build the A8 with 3,7 V8 as a FWD model alongside the quattro...:eyebrows:
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
V8's definitely the way to go. :ninja:

A 340PS V8 in a FWD B5 will be easier to handle than a 300PS turbocharged I4.

Interestingly, Audi did build the A8 with 3,7 V8 as a FWD model alongside the quattro...:eyebrows:

If I did decide to do the conversion to V8 I presume there's a fair amount of work involved and fabrication of parts too?

Would need to source a suitable V8 also.
 

aragorn

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Fabrication is limited to the exhaust as far as i know.

C5 A6 engine mounts bolt straight into the B5, and the V8 bolts upto the standard A4 transmission.

Some tweaking with coolant pipes and things like that but otherwise its a straight fit.

The only part i'm not sure about, is that the C5 A6/S6 motor uses a different oil filter/cooler housing than the A8 version. The A8 engines are far more common though and not particularly expensive, mine cost me £500 although it is missing some parts (starter and some ignition amps afaik). So you'd need to check if the A8 filter housing is compatible with the C5 mounts, and wont foul on anything in the A4 bay.
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
I see... Cheers for the info mate.

So it's not really that complicated then as long as the oil cooler with filter attached will fit into the bay.

What code is the V8 in the A8?

What about engine management? A8 or custom?
 

Siena

Registered User
For UK-spec cars, in 32V guise:

3,7L (230PS) - AEW, AKJ.
4,2L (300) - ABZ.
4,2L (340PS)* - AHC, AKH.

You can run the OEM engine management, or go aftermarket.

I chose to go aftermarket, fully mappable, and junked the MAF, in favor of a MAP sensor, as I'm going the forced induction route. The stand alone I have also employs EGT sensors, and full knock control, some stand alone's don't.
 

aragorn

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The standard management will work just fine, and should tie into your existing immobiliser etc. Keeps everything nice and cheap.

Siena: any gen on the C5 mounts on a A8 engine? The nearside is fine, its just whats going on at the offside. Pics arent too clear, i cant tell if the mounts bolt directly to the block, or if they bolt to the oil filter/cooler housing?
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
Is there any benefit of fitting a particular engine?.. other than the obvious power difference.

I'm thinking ABZ, AHC or AKH (be nice to have 300+ for pub chat lol).
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
As an approximation what price would I be looking at for parts all in?

Obviously the parts would mainly be second hand so just a figure to get my head round.
 

aragorn

"Stick a V8 in it!"
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ABZ is probably the most common motor.

There's little point going for the 3.6/3.7L.

The AHC and AKH are afaik the "S" variants, fitted to the S6 and S8, they will be more of a revvy engine than the ABZ, with their max power occuring at 7krpm instead of 5500ish on the ABZ. Its basically like comparing a stock 16v 4pot with one thats been equipped with some hot cams.
 

aragorn

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price, obviously theres always things you dont think about, my engine was 500quid, although breakers seem to ask for a little more, perhaps anything upto a grand depending on the mileage especially for an "S" engine.

If you factor in a couple hundered to sort the mounts (the mount parts arent particularly expensive new) and pipework, £250 for a flywheel then a clutch on top (£150?) your probably talking £1200ish to get the motor in and running, if you find a sensibly priced engine, then just need to sort your exhaust.
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
Ok.. cheers.

Got my mate getting me a price for a brand new ABZ.. probably be stupid expensive but we'll see.
 

aragorn

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Generally brand new engines come as bare motors without any manifolds, anciliaries, looms etc. Adding all of that stuff new will be very expensive, and trying to find the parts used will cost just as much as buying a used engine complete i suspect.

A8Parts have an AHC listed on ebay just now for £1100, Probably worth dropping them an email to see how much they'd want for an ABZ.
 

aragorn

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All the UK cars are Auto, some of the euro S8 motors were available in manual.

As far as i know from what Siena has said, the ECU will run happily without the auto box present. It will flag a code for it, however it might actually be possible to recode the engine ecu into "manual" mode, and even if not, it still runs fine with the code flagged.
 

Lee Goodall

Registered User
Thought the ECU might have problems without the Auto ECU connected. I could live with a fault code as long as that's all it was. If you can code it to manual then that'd be a bonus I suppose.
 
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