S4 tuning boxes

[Boosted_Six]

I can see a few threads over the last year talking about tuning boxes. Seems like we have a couple of options to choose from:

https://tdi-tuning.com/car/audi/s4/...td4-sent-multi-channel-petrol-tuning-box-chip

https://www.diesel-performance.co.u...4-354ps-plus-dtuk-mp-t-tuning-box-408ps614nm/

https://www.racechip.co.uk/shop/audi/a4-b9-from-2015/s4-3-0tfsi-2995ccm-354hp-260kw-500nm.html

These three seem the most well documented in the UK.

They all appear to make about 400bhp on a stock car so I'm assuming they all do exactly the same using the same hardware inputs and the price is the only consideration factor?

So my question is: (I fully understand the function of piggybacks as I've used them previously on BMW's) its not clear what differentiates the boxes on the market today e.g. which additional inputs these boxes are using and the level of user adjustment they have?

It would be great to hear from someone who as done their due diligence as a consumer and made a call on the right one for their application in order to help me decide.

Many thanks!

 

[Rogier140]

I have de DTUK box. The maker had is own S4 to develop the files on it. The new version come with a bluetooth app. In the next few days there will be a user who will dyno al the different files u can use. You can contact them and join the group app to ask any question u have to other users

 

[RichardMMM]

I have the DTUK box too. Very happy as it has made a huge difference to the car.

 

[cuke2u]

Boosted_Six, https://www.diesel-performance.co.u...4-354ps-plus-dtuk-mp-t-tuning-box-408ps614nm/ that is a very good review and reflects that a good remap, or tuning box, is more than just ball park figures, it is also about how the power and torque is delivered. Although I don't have a S4 I have experience of a few good remaps and tuning boxes in my time and the support Andrew from DTUK gives is second to none..

 

[Daggerit]

I run the DTUK box on my S4 and it's definitely worthwhile. It keeps the factory safety net so it doesn't blow up the engine but still provides a good boost of power and torque. I chose DTUK rather than the others because Andrew (the MD) is easy to get hold of and ask questions if needed, and the overall service is great. This is my third box from them without any issues at all.

 

[DohNut]

Do you guys that have these remove them come service time?

 

[Daggerit]

I haven't gotten to my first service in the S4 yet, but I will be taking it off. I took it off my previous two cars and nothing was said and each of them had minor warranty work after it had been fitted as well.

 

[Dippy]

It keeps the factory safety net so it doesn't blow up the engine but still provides a good boost of power and torque.

An interesting point of view. Regularly forcing an ECU into error-correction mode is not what I'd call "keeping the factory safety net"!

 

[Daggerit]

An interesting point of view. Regularly forcing an ECU into error-correction mode is not what I'd call "keeping the factory safety net"!

I don't believe that's quite how they work. I know what you mean, but it's more sophisticated than that... Things like the EGT and AFR sensors aren't messed with so would register an issue if something was going seriously wrong with the fuelling and boost I'd imagine? That's the kind of thing I meant about keeping the safety net.

 

[Dippy]

I'm familiar with the one they did for the B8. It taps into the two manifold pressure sensors and the engine speed sensor and that's it. It then fools the ECU into believing manifold pressure is lower than it really is so that the bypass valve is kept closed. Only when the ECU detects lean running does it increases fuelling to correct.

How's it done on the B9? Which sensors does it tap into? How does it control fuelling? I guess since the risks associated with running a turbocharged engine lean are far, far worse than with a supercharged engine, DTUK's German supplier must have made the B9 box more sophisticated? And for the same price too!

 

[Daggerit]

It taps into the camshaft sensor and two intake manifold pressure sensors. I think that it's more sophisticated than boxes in the past and the power delivery feels smoother as well.

 

[cuke2u]

That's how my box worked on the A3, I think too there might be differences in how they work from diesel to petrol...

 

[Boosted_Six]

It looks like all of these boxes are boost by engine speed (based on the input sensors), no control over timing or fueling. That means they are relatively safe as the rest of the main parameters are still ECU controlled.

 

[Daggerit]

It looks like all of these boxes are boost by engine speed (based on the input sensors), no control over timing or fueling. That means they are relatively safe as the rest of the main parameters are still ECU controlled.

Kinda what I was trying to say, but put much better than me! Haha

 

[Boosted_Six]

Went with the DTUK box in the end. Install was very easy as the instructions were full colour A4 print outs with a UK car used in the examples by the look of it. So far I have it set on map 3 -3 (which in the Bluetooth phone app is the economy map, despite the instructions staying all 3 maps make similar power?) I will turn up the boost bit by bit as thr car adjusts long term fuel trims etc

 

[Daggerit]

I run mine on 3-1 all the time because I don't have the Bluetooth version so have to go under the bonnet if I want to change it. I've seen the mapping graphs and they are indeed all very similar in terms of outright power, it's more how it's delivered that's the difference.

 

[Boosted_Six]

Would it be possible to post the plots of the three maps compared??

 

[Daggerit]

Would it be possible to post the plots of the three maps compared??

You'd have to ask @ABYSS as he runs DTUK, I don't have them I'm afraid. He's generally reluctant to post them a lot because, rightly so, he says that it should be more down to your personal choice rather than just looking at the graphs. I can tell you that they're really similar though, and that you won't be missing power when you switch between the maps so basically just choose some settings that you like the feel of!

 

[cuke2u]

I concor, the different settings do not change the outputs but just the manner in which they delivery suited towards the individual...

 

[Boosted_Six]

Understood, I will be conducting my own dyno tests in due course

 

[cuke2u]

Understood, I will be conducting my own dyno tests in due course

Even though I've not got the same engine I would be interested in seeing the results as I also have a dtuk box. However, perhaps out of respect, some communication with them might be prudent..

 

[Daggerit]

However, perhaps out of respect, some communication with them might be prudent..

Andrew doesn't mind people putting the cars on the dyno but I'd be willing to bet that he'll agree not to go with ultimate numbers so much as the stock vs. tuned numbers so that you can see the gains made on the same dyno on the same day. It's what I'd generally recommend anyway, rather than chasing outright numbers because they can essentially be tweaked to make almost whatever you want through various means in the software/dyno.

 

[Boosted_Six]

Even though I've not got the same engine I would be interested in seeing the results as I also have a dtuk box. However, perhaps out of respect, some communication with them might be prudent..

Not sure I understand?

 

[cuke2u]

I think that Daggerit has responded correctly. However I was just referring to any tests being conducted under strict scientific conditions and no enviromental issues producing skewed results that a manufacturer would not be in agreement to.
In dtuk's situation it would appear they will be happy for their product to be tested anyway..

 

[ABYSS]

ambient are temps, dyno operator etc can affect results greatly..

The preferred method I use is 0-60 and 0-100 where permissible

You can test the 0-60 times outside of 6 different dyne's and it'll be the same, stick the car on the dyno and there will be massive differences.

 

[Boosted_Six]

Hitting the dyno in two weeks, planning to baseline then run map 1-0, 2-0, 3-0 to see the curves. lastly fit the downpipe and see what it makes on the highest boost setting & strongest curve.

 

[ABYSS]

Hitting the dyno in two weeks, planning to baseline then run map 1-0, 2-0, 3-0 to see the curves. lastly fit the downpipe and see what it makes on the highest boost setting & strongest curve.

FYI our dyno runs were all made on maps 1 and 2 on zero setting

 

[Daggerit]

Hitting the dyno in two weeks, planning to baseline then run map 1-0, 2-0, 3-0 to see the curves. lastly fit the downpipe and see what it makes on the highest boost setting & strongest curve.

This will be interesting and I look forward to seeing the results! Is it the Milltek sport cat downpipe that you're installing?

 

[SMI77]

This will be interesting and I look forward to seeing the results! Is it the Milltek sport cat downpipe that you're installing?

Millteks are German made HJS downpipes:-
https://www.hjs-motorsport.de/products/tuning/ece-downpipes.html

This is how the Italians do downpipes. Must see 'dyno run' video at bottom of the link:-
https://www.supersprint.com/ww-en/supersprint-performance-sport-exhaust-audi-s4-b9-with-valve.aspx

 

[Daggerit]

Millteks are German made HJS downpipes:-
https://www.hjs-motorsport.de/products/tuning/ece-downpipes.html

This is how the Italians do downpipes. Must see 'dyno run' video at bottom of the link:-
https://www.supersprint.com/ww-en/supersprint-performance-sport-exhaust-audi-s4-b9-with-valve.aspx

The actual cat element may be made by HJS but the down pipe is definitely made in house by Milltek, I saw their mock ups and prototypes as well as chatting to the development guy about it.

The Supersprint looks really good but wow is it expensive. Eye wateringly expensive compared to the Milltek. Don’t know how the HJS is priced but I’d imagine it’s around the Milltek price rather than the Supersprint price?


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[Hammerhead]

I spoke to Milletk and they strongly advised against putting the downpipe on the car unless it's had a remap to cater for it, which a tuning box won't do, they said ti will confuse the hell out of the ECU and you may get error codes thrown up

 

[Daggerit]

They advised similar to me but said that the car doesn't really need it unless it's tuned because the flow is actually pretty good through the standard setup. I also know of someone running the Milltek sports cat pipe that's just had the engine management light pop on, he's not scanned it yet to confirm it's the downpipe, but it's pretty likely.

 

[Hammerhead]

Until they crack the ECU I'm not doing this mod, the DT-UK box is enough for now

 

[A12RNX]

I wouldn’t mind a tuning box but going to wait and have a decat down pipe, exhaust and remap all done at once. I don’t want to get a tuning box and once the ecu is cracked only get an extra say 30bhp, which I don’t think you would notice that much. Will feel like a waste of £3k on tuning.

 

[Boosted_Six]

Things did not go to plan in the end, the dyno could not handle the 4WD run down (MAHA) the readings weren't right. I will have to try a local Dyno dynamics or DynoJet instead.

The downpipe does sound wonderful however, all the pops and crackles I was used to on my M235i with the M-performance exhaust are available on demand now.

Time will tell if I pop a CEL and have to clear it out with OBD software, in the mean time the car drives well on the lower boost settings. I will gradually try the higher settings and will also schedule in a dyno run elsewhere (sadly this kills the chance to get before and after data though)

 

[SMI77]

A tad off on a tangent, but our friend who is the wholesale buyer for the the Audi & Ors Dealership we bought from, and drives home RS6's, R8's, Merc-AMG's etc. bought DTUK Tune & Pedal Boxes for the SWMBO's ML63. Before & after 4WD Hub Dyno saw +98hp & +203nm. Not bad at all!

 

[Boosted_Six]

600 miles later, no CEL, fingers still crossed!