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S3 vs Golf R

Fiddie May 21, 2014

  1. Fiddie

    Fiddie Registered User

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    Does anyone know why Golf R is quickly and it feels more "racing" than S3 when booth have the same MQB plattform and EA888 engine?
    I read some test's, reviews and forums and forums and always get the same opinion.

    p.e.

    In Hockenheim short (2604m), S3 8v laps on 1:16.80 (pos. 285) while Golf R laps on 1:15.90 (pos.245). Even old Scirocco R'09 laps on 1:16.30.
    Source: Hockenheim Short lap records - FastestLaps.com
    It's quite annoying :(
     
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  3. RYuill

    RYuill Registered User

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    I'm sure the s3 is lighter as well so I would of thought it would be slightly quicker.
     
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  4. Fiddie

    Fiddie Registered User

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    But different test's says otherwises
     
  5. RYuill

    RYuill Registered User

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    From looking at that, the s3 8v sport back is slower than the old golf R.
     
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  6. RYuill

    RYuill Registered User

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    Suppose they are not all test in the same weather conditions
     
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  7. Fiddie

    Fiddie Registered User

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    It maybe in some of them, but differents test say the same :(
     
  8. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    You've got to remember,those are lap records for a start,so they're the best times recorded,not averages,or a selection of lap times,and you also need to look at the difference in record times,which amounts to a whopping 0.9s

    And.....there are two guys credited with the times,i.e. it's not one guy driving both or all of them,so you have to factor in different driving styles,different conditions on the day etc etc.

    Personally,I wouldn't be bothered by 0.9s as most of us(myself included) wouldn't get anywhere near those times.
     
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  9. Fiddie

    Fiddie Registered User

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    Im not bothered by 0.9s too, but yes but most reviews. I don't know where is the difference if there are basically the same engine and platform.
    And mostly by S3 understeers and Golf not!
    :shrug:
     
  10. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Registered User

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    Side by side, the S3 should be the quicker car given the better PWR figures...

    S3 (DSG) = 296/1415kg = 209.18bhp/ton
    Golf R (DSG) = 296/1495kg = 197.99bhp/ton

    S3 has 5.7% more power like for like

    As to the fastest laps, probably DSG vs manual, wet vs dry, different drivers and so on and on. Side by side, both on launch control over a drag race, the S3 post a quicker time for sure.
     
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  11. david25uk

    david25uk Registered User

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  13. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Registered User

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    The Golf is 80kg heavier according to the official Audi/VW blurb so not quite sure I believe those weigh ins there. Also looking at the 0-200kmh times the S3 is quite a margin quicker. Then again they are comparing the S3 saloon DSG with a Golf R manual there.
     
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  14. david25uk

    david25uk Registered User

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    With the weights, Audi and VW have different reporting standards.

    Golf 3dr man 1476Kg

    S3 3dr man 1395Kg

    BUT then add 75Kg to make it equivalent to the Golf = 1470Kg i.e. very very close.

    Then its all about extras, especially Bose, sunroof and electric seats.

    With the acceleration, yes we have to make to compare manual to manual and DSG to DSG.
     
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  15. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Registered User

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    That is true, I never realised VW quoted kerb weight with 75kg driver/luggage but yet Audi quote without.

    Sneaky sneaky Audi.
     
  16. david25uk

    david25uk Registered User

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    Yes its bad!

    Basically across the A3 and Golf range, things are very similar for the same engine and gearbox.
     
  17. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    That's the thing though....cars with very similar power/weights,remove or add a bit here or there and then you get a mish-mash of figures.
     
  18. david25uk

    david25uk Registered User

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    I;ve found some more weights

    Autocar 9th April

    Golf R 3dr DSG weighed 1410Kg compared to official weight of 1495

    BUT Auto Zeitung weighed the manual at 1479
     
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  19. markos72

    markos72 Registered User

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    Gotta factor in fuel load too.
     
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  20. Trickydicky2

    Trickydicky2 Registered User

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    That seems high. I took my manual out of the glove compartment and it's less than that... deffo
     
  21. viperfire

    viperfire Registered User

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    From tHose times the S3 beats everything but the merc. It seems to rate everything on 5th gear performance and braking weird
     
  22. barwon

    barwon Guest

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    I also wonder why most of the German and Dutch magazine tests (search on the German Car Forum for S3, Golf R reviews) prefer the handling of the Golf R to the S3. I assume that the suspension set up on the Golf R must provide better balanced handling?
     
  23. steeve

    steeve Registered User

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    It cant be guaranteed that both cars are standard and they would also need to be driven by the same driver. But I do think VW set their cars up a little more sporty than Audi.
     
  24. Longy

    Longy Registered User

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  25. 6audi6

    6audi6 Registered User

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    So most journos think Golf may have the edge when really pushing it? So with today's roads that's maybe 10% of the time if you're lucky? I think the Golf looks slightly better in the way they've differentiated it from cars lower in the range (for me the difference between s line and S3 is just too subtle). The Golf does the subtle side of sporty and aggressive just that little bit better (being able to spec 19"s is a big help).

    But, and for me it's a big but, could I live with the Golfs interior coming from an S3? No. The Golf cabin seems a throwback from ten years ago in comparison to the Audi. And the carbon look seats just don't look right IMO. Thus I'd have to spec full leather. Touchscreen Golf or MMI Audi? Audi everyday. The fit, finish and design of the Audi just looks so much better and justifies the price tag more. It's a nicer place to spend time.

    It depends what you're after. If, like me, the Audi is your only car then for me it's a no brainer. The interior is where you spend the most time. The possible extra you would get from that odd moment of hooning would pale significantly every time I'm stuck in traffic with the Golf. On the open road I'm fairly happy with what the S3 can give me when I'm pushing on. I'm not too sure whether the Golf would offer me too much more. The Audi strikes a better balance of qualities for me.
     
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  26. steeve

    steeve Registered User

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    Longy, thanks for finding this comparison, very interesting.
    6audi6, I agree with your comments.

    Both are very good cars, but for me (at my age!) I like the Audi as a better place to be.
     
  27. barwon

    barwon Guest

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    6audi6 and steeve, I agree with your comments. Coming from a Mk 5 GTI and then a Mk 6 GTI, I wanted more of a step up in interior quality and comfort, as well as performance, and while both are great cars the S3 met my needs best as my only car.
     
  28. dbm

    dbm Registered User

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    My guess would be a combination of mechanical bits in the suspension set up and electronic bits in terms of how the throttle, ABS / ESP, DSG and Haldex units are programmed.

    Having done the modification-thing with my 8L S3 you can certainly transform the handling of a car with suspension components and set up.

    Other people have poo-poo'ed this theory, but my take on it is that the R is intended to be the top of it's tree in terms of performance, so they have given it the best possible handling. With Audi the S3 has been designed to leave some space above for an RS3 model.
     
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  29. pat15312

    pat15312 Registered User

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    I'd reel that theory in if I were you... The 8P RS3 was/is a horrible handling car. Hopefully Audi pay more attention to this area of car performance on the 8V RS3.
     
  30. dbm

    dbm Registered User

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    Maybe. It's better than a stock 8P S3 and that is surely the point?

    And it's infinitely better on decent tyres. Don't believe what Mr Harris has to say.
     
  31. bqik

    bqik Registered User

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    99% of S3-R buyers are not journos neither racers.

    how many of us will drive the S3 on track every sunday?

    VAG needs at least differentiate their products.

    regards
     
  32. ACWKGYTO

    ACWKGYTO Registered User

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    Rant warning ! :)

    Test drove the new golf R in a 5 door, manual on 19's yesterday in race mode...I'd like to disconnect the sound Aktuator is really sounded quite fake. Will be test driving the new S3 in a 3 door manual this week, from what Ive now read this may sound fake too.

    In manual I didnt feel the car was much quicker than my standard 3 door S3 P8 in S tronic,

    but I'm sure it would do in a an auto

    Handling on the new platform does feel good, I was also impressed with the GTI performance pack 3 door with Adaptive Chassis Control, set up in sport mode (although there was more obvious fake engine noise)

    A bit of toque steer from the GTI, none from the Golf R

    The sales guys I tested the cars with, especially the Golf R, were car enthusiasts, so we gave the car a good try ! :)

    Been really difficult to get to try manual versions of the car, they are like hens teeth especially the R

    Also tried the M135i but not for me, too cramped, fake sound again, no digital speedo, does feel good in manual

    But Im starting to think that Auto is the way forward for this kind of 300PS plus car, once youve tasted the kickdown youre hooked in, its a shame someone doesnt bring out a car with a clutch that disappears when you want it to and becomes an auto !

    At present I have a mk2 golf gti16v 3 door manual for the times I fancy some more involved driving, no sound aktuator needed ! :)

    I will see what the new S3 drives like hopefully this week, The Golf R fully specced is nearly £40k in manual 5 door...Im sorry but I dont like it that much ! We'll see about the new S3, looking at a Demonstrator 3 door manual around low 30's

    They offered me around £3k off a fully specced Golf R, so about £36500 then a poor part ex price with a 4 month wait

    That aint happening ! I'd rather buy another classic car or 5

    I dunno why these online discounters such as carwow dont just say, this doesnt work if youre part exing your car

    They give you 5 to 10 % off a new car, then 15 % under value your part ex

    Do they think people were born yesterday !!!
     
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  34. Pulp84

    Pulp84 Registered User

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    The Golf R does sound much more synthesised in my opinion over the S3. You will have to see for yourself but think you will like it.

    I had no issues with my part-ex (but it was an Audi). I managed to negotiate a fixed trade in equity which actually ensured I had the exact amount of cash come delivery time (4 and 1/2 months after I placed the order). Maybe you should try that if there is finance on your part-ex to pay off?
     
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  35. ACWKGYTO

    ACWKGYTO Registered User

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    When I find a car better than what Ive got for the right deal then I might go ahead

    been offered a fixed trade in equity on the golf R in 4 months which is 3k under what I would get for the car now without buying another car !

    Funnily enough that was roughly the discount offered to me on the new car

    Its bulls..t

    They can keep the Golf R and stick its fake noise up their tight arseschlockes !

    Audi S3 is far more cool, in a covert way, Golf R too blingy and tacky...I like the GTI though, but its overpriced
     
  36. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User

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    You are PilotAudi in disguise, and I claim my £5. :)






    edit:
    Trivia: Origins of the "You are X, and I claim my £5"
    Lobby Lud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
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  37. ACWKGYTO

    ACWKGYTO Registered User

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    Where do I send it....ha ha

    Ps who the feck is PilotAudi...did you two share a cell ?
     
  38. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User

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    He was a legend the 8V forum, whose generalisations (eg: Panameras are for fat men, Q3's and Q5's are used by their owners to go dogging) etc. and generally blinkered views, hatred of Clarkson and anything Tory, obnoxiousness and bullying tendencies led to him being banned.


    PS: Do you like Phantom Black ?
     
  39. ACWKGYTO

    ACWKGYTO Registered User

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    I did get banned for a couple of weeks after a little spat on the 8V forum

    I do like Phantom black, its the colour of my S3

    The one I'm looking at might be some strange off black colour looks like an aubergine !

    So not so sure, but could be amazing...I have seen the car in the flesh and got very excited

    Then whenever Ive asked about it the manager has taken it home !

    Would have to be mind blowingly good to change back to manual :)

    What you got Veeeight ? Colour ? 3 or 5 door ?

    Right I'm off to pick up a part for my mk2, laters
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2014
  40. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User

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    Interesting :)




    3-door, Estoril Blue :)

    Re fake sound - You can turn off, or down, the Soundaktor via VCDS. It's a percentage scale, 0-100%.
    Or just unplug it (under the scuttle) if you don't like it.
    I quite like it in Dynamic Mode - turns the inline-4 into a off-beat boxer engine.
     
  41. ACWKGYTO

    ACWKGYTO Registered User

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    Manual or DSG ?
     
  42. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User

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    DSG of course.


    <puts on tin hat>
     
  43. ACWKGYTO

    ACWKGYTO Registered User

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    Have you tried the manual S3 8V ?

    I have the S tronic its very good
     

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