Facelift S3 vs facelift A3 quattro with new 2.0TFSI and stage 1 tune

nickows

Registered User
With the updated A3 Quattro getting a 2.0TFSI engine, this car with a stage 1 tune is mighty tempting.

It's 190PS (140kW)/320Nm standard, but from what I've read it's a detuned version of the same engine in the A4 quattro that has 252PS (185kw)/370Nm. A stage 1 tune on this high output model is resulting in figures around 310 PS (228kW)/500Nm (APR tune).

These are huge performance gains and pretty exciting if this tune can be applied to the A3 quattro! Even dialing it back to 270PS (200kw)/450Nm would be impressive.

What are people's thoughts?
 

infernox

Registered User
If anyone has done this tune, it would be interesting to hear about it. From what I've heard, I'm not sure they put a good enough clutch in these for that much power. Anyone know hos the 2.0TFSI Quattro compares to the old 1.8TFSI Quattro?
 

GSB

Registered User
I'm all for a bit of tinkering, but honestly, I can't see how it's not more cost effective to simply buy an S3 to start with.
 

Psyman79

Sarcasm is hard on a forum ;)
I'd looked into pricing on the 2.0tfsi and it was working out £40 a month more than the S3.

Si :)
 

DJAlix

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I opted for the 2.0 over the s3 due to no good deals being offered at the time and the cost of insurance, and noticed the differences between the USA and U.K. engine spec. Am going to be investigating the engine potential in the near year. I already have the USA ECU software on file so just need to investigate the "hardware" before flashing. Currently investigating 3rd party maps and boxes also.
 

gamegenie

Eazy-E CPT OG from the Otherside
You guys have a new 2.0T engine, the US has the same engine as Pre-FL, which was the same 220hp engine that was in the B8.5 A4, A5, and A6 (pre-facelift)
 

DJAlix

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You guys have a new 2.0T engine, the US has the same engine as Pre-FL, which was the same 220hp engine that was in the B8.5 A4, A5, and A6 (pre-facelift)
This saves me some work :)
 

DJAlix

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it would be cheaper to just buy and s3 like for like spec
I spent 2.5 hours pricing up both 2.0 and S3 like for like cars with my dealer. Given the deals that were available in November the 2.0 worked out a good deal cheaper.
 

deanshaw24

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I just checked and yes the s3 is £25 a month more. Standard car with SSP on both cars the s3 is £4K more but has 3k better residule
 

DJAlix

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I just checked and yes the s3 is £25 a month more. Standard car with SSP on both cars the s3 is £4K more but has 3k better residule
That would be on Standard numbers but you need to take in to account dealer contributions etc. When I was sitting with my salemans the best I could get in an S3 was between 4% and approx 5.5% overall discount. With the 2.0 I got 12.5% :)

Insurance on the 2.0 is £388. An S3 in London, in my postcode, would have been just over 1k, plus the car would have been stolen 7.5 mins after getting it home lol.
 

infernox

Registered User
How do you find the 2.0 TFSI in terms of driving? I remember someone on here was choosing between the 1.4 TFSI and S3 and tried the 2.0 thinking it would be in the middle but it was too focused on economy for him.
 

DJAlix

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How do you find the 2.0 TFSI in terms of driving? I remember someone on here was choosing between the 1.4 TFSI and S3 and tried the 2.0 thinking it would be in the middle but it was too focused on economy for him.
My previous was a 1.8 TFSI with the 7 speed s-tronic. When stock, ended up with revo stage 1+, I found that it wanted to live in the high gears as much as possible and as soon as possible. 35mph and sometimes it would be in 5th gear! So far the 2.0TFSI is nothing like that but I have only done 239 miles since collecting it. Will get some miles on it and report once I am back in the uk.
 

deanshaw24

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That would be on Standard numbers but you need to take in to account dealer contributions etc. When I was sitting with my salemans the best I could get in an S3 was between 4% and approx 5.5% overall discount. With the 2.0 I got 12.5% :)

Insurance on the 2.0 is £388. An S3 in London, in my postcode, would have been just over 1k, plus the car would have been stolen 7.5 mins after getting it home lol.
I got offered the same discount on both. Which was around 12.5% plus the £800 contribution. But that insurance quote is a good decider!!
 

GSB

Registered User
I suspect much of the problem there Alex, lies with your desire for the saloon model. It's almost as though it's seen as a different car by Audi and it's dealers, and not deserving of the discounts offered on its 'lesser' siblings. The same seems to apply to the sportback when compared to the three door. The fact that I could get 8-10% a sportback S3, or nearly 18% off of a 3 door of the same spec meant buying the 3 door was a no brainer for me.

One thing I found amazing was the variability between offers for the same car, not only would dealerships owned by the same company come up with very different offers, but even sales staff at the same centre would vary on how much was "absolutely the lowest we can go".

As for insurance, it seems to be a total lottery. Your patch of london doesnt seem to be on fire or suffering a riot any more often than my bit of london, and yet my S3 costs £500 to insure, the same as my MX5.
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
How do you find the 2.0 TFSI in terms of driving? I remember someone on here was choosing between the 1.4 TFSI and S3 and tried the 2.0 thinking it would be in the middle but it was too focused on economy for him.

That was I. The problem with the 2.0 was that it costs a good deal more than the 1.4, but has only slightly higher GFV. As others pointed out, the decision really was between the 1.4 and the S3.

I was able to negotiate a 14.7% discount off a S3 hatchback and about 16% off an A3 hatchback. Overall the S3 was worth the slightly higher cost per month, running costs would be near identical between the 2.0 and S3 and insurance for me was a moot point as the S3 was only £300. The 1.4 was just too sensible :p

I've settled on keeping the S5 for a little longer and I'm looking at buying a 2/3yr old S3 with <20k miles. Renovating and extending my house so will be looking in about 6months time when my S5 deal starts to run to an end and I've recovered from the cost of my extension....
 

DJAlix

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I got offered the same discount on both. Which was around 12.5% plus the £800 contribution. But that insurance quote is a good decider!!
I got offered the same discount on both. Which was around 12.5% plus the £800 contribution. But that insurance quote is a good decider!!
My dealer was only offering approx £600 as a contribution on an S3 Saloon. The contribution on my 2.0TFSI was four digits :) It was this and the trade in value they gave me for my old Saloon, 63 plate with 11.1k miles at £19.5k, that swung it for me.
 

DJAlix

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I suspect much of the problem there Alex, lies with your desire for the saloon model. It's almost as though it's seen as a different car by Audi and it's dealers, and not deserving of the discounts offered on its 'lesser' siblings. The same seems to apply to the sportback when compared to the three door. The fact that I could get 8-10% a sportback S3, or nearly 18% off of a 3 door of the same spec meant buying the 3 door was a no brainer for me.

One thing I found amazing was the variability between offers for the same car, not only would dealerships owned by the same company come up with very different offers, but even sales staff at the same centre would vary on how much was "absolutely the lowest we can go".

As for insurance, it seems to be a total lottery. Your patch of london doesnt seem to be on fire or suffering a riot any more often than my bit of london, and yet my S3 costs £500 to insure, the same as my MX5.
The only other A/S3 I have tried pricing up is the Cabrio and I found the pricing on those to be even further out of whack than the Saloon. Insurance worked out cheaper for me on a Cabrio tho...

Normally when buying anything I just rock up and ask for the best price else I will go to another place but I tested the whole Carwow thing this time around and found pricing to be a little odd. Hatfield, Finchley Road, Watford and Whetstone Audi dealerships (same group) were very very different. When I first sat down with my salesman of 7 years now (Hatfield) the first deal was not good so I opened up my carwow results and then put my phone on the desk while pretending to forget to lock it... everything changed and after that and he spent a lot of time talking to his head of business lol.

Insurance is just a complete joke. We are about the same age, you live in London near the river and I live in London between Radio One DJ's and most of the Eastenders cast and my insurance cost is double. Hmmm maybe because "Billy" lives in the next road?

Anyway, back to the 2.0...

I may have only covered limited milage so far but overall the car seems a lot more refined than the 1.8 I had before, engine and build wise. Maybe the mag ride is playing a part in this, no idea for the moment but I have zero rattles and everything is 110% solid. The 2.0 lump is very very smooth so much so that I actually have to look at the dash in order to see if Stop / Start has kicked in or not. Power delivery is better also, with no real throttle lag but the noise is not so refined. The 1.8 sounded like a TDI from the outside and a petrol from the inside. The 2.0 sounds like a TDI full stop, quite on the inside but still tractor'ish :( Power is there when you need it... Foot down and it goes, simple. Don't matter what gear, its off :)

Car had 18 miles on the clock when collected, 19 miles when I filled the rest of the tank, 239miles last time I finished driving it and it was showing half a tank left. For the most part I had S/S disabled and have not even tried ECO / Coasting mode yet. Working out better than my 1.8 did fuel wise.

I need to open her up when I get home so I can post a real review, but for the moment I can see there being nice stage 1 / 1+ tuning gains with this engine once the likes of Revo get one to test with. The weak point, as will all the A3's I have had mapped, will be the damn clutch :(
 

........

T-Cut King !
The S3 Saloon,I have tried Carwow,a Quotation from this site sponser,my son....and l cant even get 10%....best was 8-5% roughly that's on a £45k car,but that will change soon it always does
 

infernox

Registered User
I checked broadspeed and its really strange. The S3 saloon only gets £1,300 off its £35k price but if you go for black edition S3 Saloon, you get £4,000 off its £36.5k price. The hatchback and sportback cars get similar discounts but the hatchback has a lower RRP.
 

Brumbrum1

Registered User
The only other A/S3 I have tried pricing up is the Cabrio and I found the pricing on those to be even further out of whack than the Saloon. Insurance worked out cheaper for me on a Cabrio tho...

Normally when buying anything I just rock up and ask for the best price else I will go to another place but I tested the whole Carwow thing this time around and found pricing to be a little odd. Hatfield, Finchley Road, Watford and Whetstone Audi dealerships (same group) were very very different. When I first sat down with my salesman of 7 years now (Hatfield) the first deal was not good so I opened up my carwow results and then put my phone on the desk while pretending to forget to lock it... everything changed and after that and he spent a lot of time talking to his head of business lol.

Insurance is just a complete joke. We are about the same age, you live in London near the river and I live in London between Radio One DJ's and most of the Eastenders cast and my insurance cost is double. Hmmm maybe because "Billy" lives in the next road?

Anyway, back to the 2.0...

I may have only covered limited milage so far but overall the car seems a lot more refined than the 1.8 I had before, engine and build wise. Maybe the mag ride is playing a part in this, no idea for the moment but I have zero rattles and everything is 110% solid. The 2.0 lump is very very smooth so much so that I actually have to look at the dash in order to see if Stop / Start has kicked in or not. Power delivery is better also, with no real throttle lag but the noise is not so refined. The 1.8 sounded like a TDI from the outside and a petrol from the inside. The 2.0 sounds like a TDI full stop, quite on the inside but still tractor'ish :( Power is there when you need it... Foot down and it goes, simple. Don't matter what gear, its off :)

Car had 18 miles on the clock when collected, 19 miles when I filled the rest of the tank, 239miles last time I finished driving it and it was showing half a tank left. For the most part I had S/S disabled and have not even tried ECO / Coasting mode yet. Working out better than my 1.8 did fuel wise.

I need to open her up when I get home so I can post a real review, but for the moment I can see there being nice stage 1 / 1+ tuning gains with this engine once the likes of Revo get one to test with. The weak point, as will all the A3's I have had mapped, will be the damn clutch :(
I've got 2500 miles on mine now.
I also haven't tried eco mode but have had 48mpg on a gentle run.
 

nickows

Registered User
Does anyone know for sure if the 190PS version of the 2.0TFSI in the facelift A3 shares the same mechanicals as the 252PS version in the A4 quattro? Is the only difference the state of tune (ie - software)? I'm hoping this is the case but wonder if there's other changes such as bigger turbo etc.
 
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deanshaw24

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Does anyone know for sure if the 190PS version of the 2.0TFSI in the facelift A3 shares the same mechanicals as the 252PS version in the A4 quattro? Is the only difference the state of tune (ie - software)? I'm hoping this is the case but wonder if there's other changes such as bigger turbo etc.
I would be surprised they would be the same engine given the 60bhp difference.
 

GSB

Registered User
I would be surprised they would be the same engine given the 60bhp difference.
I'd be surprised if they werent exactly the same. It's not at all uncommon for the extra power of upper models to be locked away by something as simple as a logic change or a bolt on bit. It rationalises the range of engines needed, cuts costs, and means many variants can be produced using the same tooling. Look at the BMW mini when it first came out, the extra power of the cooper was a mere ECU tweek away from the base Mini One.
 

Salik Sajid

Registered User
US 2015 A3 2.0tfsi quattro got IS20 turbo (220hp) and A3 1.8TFSI (180hp) is IS12 turbo, S3 is IS38 turbo....not sure which turbo is in new 2017 A3 2.0tfsi (190hp) but i guess IS20
 

deanshaw24

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VCDS Map User
I'd be surprised if they werent exactly the same. It's not at all uncommon for the extra power of upper models to be locked away by something as simple as a logic change or a bolt on bit. It rationalises the range of engines needed, cuts costs, and means many variants can be produced using the same tooling. Look at the BMW mini when it first came out, the extra power of the cooper was a mere ECU tweek away from the base Mini One.
I reckon it's the same engine as the 2.0tfsi tt and golf gti. So different turbo?
 
The 2.0 A3 engine and the 2.0 S3 fl engine are completely different different internals turbo gear box the list goes on if you want S3 power but the S3
 
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