Understeers with ease?
Yes. When compared with other comparable cars (in the hot/hyper hatch market)!
And considering it wears an Audi "S" badge!
(we are back to the relative, not absolute parameters)
S3 Understeer, Mermaids and Unicorns
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Understeers with ease?
Yes. When compared with other comparable cars (in the hot/hyper hatch market)!
And considering it wears an Audi "S" badge!
(we are back to the relative, not absolute parameters)
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'Nobody will disagree that on the road there are few cars of a comparable price for getting from A-B safely in all conditions, it is just a bit clinical/easy rather than fun if you go looking for fun'
That is practically word for word what every review I've ever seen on the S3 said when it was first launched...................which begs the question why on earth did you buy one?
That is practically word for word what every review I've ever seen on the S3 said when it was first launched...................which begs the question why on earth did you buy one?
Why do you feel the need to always bring this up? Who cares what else is on the market that may have fractional better handling characteristics? Not me - I'm happy with the S3. Happy that after a day of driving it, knowing I would get a decent trade in, knowing that Audi's finance sh*ts all over most others, that this was a car I wanted. I actually wanted the RS3, but it was just too expensive and not sure I could justify the extra 10K for what on paper, didn't seem like much more bang for my buck.
Stop comparing. Baseline your S3 on the S3. Not on what the others can and cannot do. This topic was on understeer of the S3. Not understeer of the Golf R, Transit Vans or Mermaids and Unicorns.
Simple. Because you made a big song and dance, about this, in post #234 you practically accused me of lying and never referring the S3 understeer as relative to other cars. From Day 1, I always have, but in your mind, I obviously said something else.
That, is 2 new cans of worms, in terms of understeer, and 'is it worth the premium over the S3' .
Best don't go there.
OK.
The S3 understeers.
I had the same problem with Specialist Cars VW after test driving a DSG Golf R, they gave the impression they couldn't care less if they got a sale. Luckily the experience convinced the missus the extra £4K was worth it for the S3 Saloon so we headed back to Aberdeen Audi to order one.
They were giving me 3K less for my A6 as a trade in. Same John Clark that owns both franchises. It would have just been shipped down the road to Audi, but you'd have thought it was Peter Vardy you were dealing with, such was the mickey mouse attitude.
The young sales lad was full of p*sh as well, saying, yeah man, I have a Golf R as a company car on a great PCP deal and I rip the **** out of it. Yes, very professional.
I'd actually note that it would probably be easier to get a reach around from either a unicorn or a mermaid than get my S3 through a fast bend without understeer. As I said like many other cars....it understeers.
In fact I'd actually prefer to do the below than try and pretend the S3 is some magical thing that doesn't understeer
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Pulp, have you been on the sauce tonight?
Just wonderin'
Oh, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the test drive of the A word, PM will do
Just wonderin'
Oh, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the test drive of the A word, PM will do
Pulp, have you been on the sauce tonight?
Just wonderin'
Oh, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the test drive of the A word, PM will do
Had a little break from the UK and ASN and still got that that holiday feeling.....
There is lots of stuff on this thread that's pure fantasy (mermaids, unicorns, S3 neutral in corners) so thought I'd better make a contribution!
PM will be with you soon - thought I'd entertain myself with this first
I couldn't any sort of figures from them, neither trade-in price or available discounts, total lack of interest. After 4 days of trying I rang back to tell them to forget it as I'd ordered an S3 and they just hung up without saying a word. Stunning.
Thanks for opening the "RS3 might not be the best car ever made" door.
No need to give up that 5%! http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...2-class-mustang-gt-golf-r-s3-and-more-feature
That Car and Driver article about the S3 Saloon shows that it has the expected safe understeer and it can be as fast as the Golf R if driven the right way.
Paragraph from article regarding understeer:
"Despite a modest weight to the linear steering, the helm isn’t light on feedback. Understeer will take over, particularly if the driver is hard on the throttle before the car is pointed the right way. For best results, pilot the S3 as you would any front-drive car, with lots of patience and control, never manhandling it like you would the wannabe rally cars from Subaru or Mitsu. The Audi doesn’t have the rear-end rotation that those cars supply under power."
Understeer isn't actually a bad thing and you can make a car understeer by poor driving techniques, the best lap times are achieved by people that learn a cars characteristics, adapt to them and don't try to make it do something it's not comfortable with. That applies to any car.
Just because you want it to behave like a <insert hot hatch here> doesn't mean it will and that you can complain when you run wide.
So, the discussion here is 'Does it have understeer or not? Yes it does, 1-0 to V8. Topic closed?
Does it make it bad handing? Not if you drive it in a smooth and controlled manner. If you don't want to drive smooth and with forward planning and you want to go out and throw it about like you're in a WRC car then it's not going to happen, you bought the wrong car.
We can also ask why Audi didn't give the S3 the power of an RS3 and the handling of the new TTS, well, two main reasons:
1. The cars all have to fit into their place in the VAG group structure so they don't cannibalise more expensive cars up the chain, so you won't get an S3 that handles like a Porsche and is as cheap as a Golf.
Audi could do it, but they won't.
2. Audis are supposed to be safe handling, fast cars, we all know that. The nimble steering/handling cars are in a different VAG range of cars.
BTW, The S3 Saloon was actually 1 second quicker but it did have different tyres so I'd call it a draw to be fair to the R.
Paragraph from article regarding understeer:
"Despite a modest weight to the linear steering, the helm isn’t light on feedback. Understeer will take over, particularly if the driver is hard on the throttle before the car is pointed the right way. For best results, pilot the S3 as you would any front-drive car, with lots of patience and control, never manhandling it like you would the wannabe rally cars from Subaru or Mitsu. The Audi doesn’t have the rear-end rotation that those cars supply under power."
Understeer isn't actually a bad thing and you can make a car understeer by poor driving techniques, the best lap times are achieved by people that learn a cars characteristics, adapt to them and don't try to make it do something it's not comfortable with. That applies to any car.
Just because you want it to behave like a <insert hot hatch here> doesn't mean it will and that you can complain when you run wide.
So, the discussion here is 'Does it have understeer or not? Yes it does, 1-0 to V8. Topic closed?
Does it make it bad handing? Not if you drive it in a smooth and controlled manner. If you don't want to drive smooth and with forward planning and you want to go out and throw it about like you're in a WRC car then it's not going to happen, you bought the wrong car.
We can also ask why Audi didn't give the S3 the power of an RS3 and the handling of the new TTS, well, two main reasons:
1. The cars all have to fit into their place in the VAG group structure so they don't cannibalise more expensive cars up the chain, so you won't get an S3 that handles like a Porsche and is as cheap as a Golf.
Audi could do it, but they won't.
2. Audis are supposed to be safe handling, fast cars, we all know that. The nimble steering/handling cars are in a different VAG range of cars.
BTW, The S3 Saloon was actually 1 second quicker but it did have different tyres so I'd call it a draw to be fair to the R.
There are, of course, differences between the S3 Saloon and S3 HB/SB.
On the Oz Wakefield Park Circuit:
Golf R (1.11.54 seconds)
S3 (1.12.03)
STI (1.13.06)
For a direct SB v 5dr comparison:
In Hockenheim short (2604m)
S3 8v laps on 1:16.80
Golf R laps on 1:15.90
I can't disagree with that. I've never disagreed with that. I've said what amounts to the above before plenty.
For me, however, it is a shame that you do have to drive around the issue/limitations, which really shouldn't be there on a £35k car.
The understeer on the S3 by itself, doesn't make it bad handling per se (as you have to drive around the issue) - however - coupled with all the other traits, particularly the suspension and dampers - then it does make for a car that unravels quickly in that last 20%.
On the Oz Wakefield Park Circuit:
Golf R (1.11.54 seconds)
S3 (1.12.03)
STI (1.13.06)
For a direct SB v 5dr comparison:
In Hockenheim short (2604m)
S3 8v laps on 1:16.80
Golf R laps on 1:15.90
I can't disagree with that. I've never disagreed with that. I've said what amounts to the above before plenty.
For me, however, it is a shame that you do have to drive around the issue/limitations, which really shouldn't be there on a £35k car.
The understeer on the S3 by itself, doesn't make it bad handling per se (as you have to drive around the issue) - however - coupled with all the other traits, particularly the suspension and dampers - then it does make for a car that unravels quickly in that last 20%.
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The question I would rather pose is, does it have understeer under normal circumstances? The answer would be a resounding no. I've yet to encounter it, but then, I'm driving it with patience and control... I am not charging into a corner, rather setting the car up to power round the corner. Any racing driving worth his salt will tell you that 'slow in - fast out' is the way to garner quicker lap times. If you want to block pass someone into a hairpin, then sure, go late on the brakes and you will have achieved your goal. But for real life conditions, no one should be barrelling into corners to the extent that you encounter massive understeer. A wee bit of understeer is always nice to let you know that the front end has reached it's limits. Most MotoGP riders experience front end loss of grip, the entire way through their race. But they accommodate that.
So, does it understeer went pushed too far? Yes. Will 95% of us encounter it? Probably not. It is a perfectly happy car that can be driven fast without the need, as you say, to drive it like a WRC car.
£31k.... but let's not go there again as you are obviously hellbent on referencing this figure.
You lot could at least give me a minute for my fingers to recover after that last novel I just typed out 
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From you but yes from me... Normal is relative (both to the person, the S3 and what they're comparing it to). That's the crux of this circular discussion...
And who buys a base S3 without any options on it?
Other than to just have a S3 badge
Jesus wept - talk about stereotyping an audience. I didn't buy the car to just have an S3 badge - I can tell you that for nothing. And I didn't add on the bells and whistles as I was on a mission to keep the monthly payments the same as my previous PCP deal. So no mag ride, no 19" wheels.... my only 'luxury' if you will was satnav and pearl.
Same drive train, same engine, same driver behind the wheel. Net result, the car will perform exactly the same at 40k as it will 30k.
If "normal" for you is 30mph, then the answer is a resounding no. However, there are a few of us on this forum that have had to get used to driving around with a few extra degrees on the steering than absolutely necessary
(which we don't have to in other cars
)
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True, must add Mono Pur!
Now you're just being silly - that's just a waste of money and everyone knows it
No, normal is normal. What someone thinks is normal, is quite often the case, excessive. Drinking 20 pints a night may seem 'normal' to some, but in reality, it's excessive.
Approaching a corner at a speed that is just not conducive to grip levels, may be normal for some, but it's probably excessive in the eyes of most drivers with a modicum of talent and expertise.
I don't think you should be talking about stereotyping ....... you seem to be keen to stereotype when it suits you
Your words:
Not stereotyping much there, then!
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Well 'too long' is beyond my ability so kinda makes it pointless to compare to some one else's 'too long'
mattiekane
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It probably doesn't help that I like to throw my self around at the same time
*Edited due to horrific spelling capability*
*Edited due to horrific spelling capability*
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Normal is relative due to the variables here:
"Normal" safe cornering speed in a 2CV != "normal" safe cornering speed in an S3
"Normal" safe cornering speed in an S3 driven by an F1 driver != "normal" safe cornering speed in an S3 driven by my mother
QED
But it's great to know the underlying cause is my lack of a modicum of talent or expertise. So glad we cleared that up.
So the S3 is 0.7% slower on the Wakefield Park and 1.2% slower in Hockenheim per lap. Not really worth 8 pages of arguments is it?
So the S3 is 0.7% slower on the Wakefield Park and 1.2% slower in Hockenheim per lap. Not really worth 8 pages of arguments is it?
It never was
The thread (I think) is all about whether we imagine that the S3 understeers, or not!
Which , as we all know, does!
It never was
The thread (I think) is all about whether we imagine that the S3 understeers, or not!
Which , as we all know, does!
@veeeight did you really mean to say that we all agree that we all imagine the S3 understeers...............ducks for cover (big time)
My effortless driving technique.
V8 on the other hand, must be on the Red Bull as he should be constantly tired from fighting for his dear life every time he approaches a roundabout.
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