S3 to S4 Avant

Riko0073

Registered User
Hi all

Currently have a 2016 (PFL) S3 saloon which I love, however with an ever growing family of dogs + 2 kids and the missus the S3 just isn't practical anymore!

Obviously I'm going to take a hit swooping just over a year into a 3 year PCP but the trade off with the everyday practicality is something I'm willing to consider.

Anyway, onto the S4. My local dealer has a Navarra blue model with some good options including sunroof, adaptive suspension, Bose, matrix lights to name a few.

They are offering to take my S3 for £24,700 which will clear the finance, £8k deposit and £650 a month on what seems a very high spec S4, however I've targeted the sales rep with £550pm which I can accept and afford.

I've yet to test drive the S4, that's next week when their demo is in so whether I actually like the car I'm not sure, however reviews and You Tube videos I've seen do praise it highly, however I'm a bit concerned reading about hesitation on pulling off quickly, the S3 is generally off the line pretty sharpish!

So couple of questions...

1. Has anyone gone from S3 to S4 and is the move a positive one? I know it might not be as nippy round the back roads but is the overall driving experience still exciting I.e a bit jeckle and hide when you want it?

2. Does the deal on offer sound good based on the deposit and monthly payments?

I've done a quick quote on OrangeWheels who are offering around a £7k discount on a similar spec car but waiting to hear how much that costs monthly etc.

Guess it will boil down to the test drive and if I can negotiate any better deals to get the best price.

I do have the option to find the S4 without trading in the S3 and could therefore sell privately but would rather do without the hassle of that.

Thanks for any comments and experiences.
 

Riko0073

Registered User
I should also add that the deal is based on 48 months and 20k per year mileage as I do a fair few miles!

If I get them down to £550pm that seems like a good deal on a £50k+ motor?
 

zippster

Registered User
I bought a new S3 hatch may 20th 2016, and took delivery of my S4 Avant on the 17th may this year..

All I would say is it's a B I G upgrade over the S3 in every way possible!

My car was ordered on the 20th Dec 2016 full spec and I nabbed it from the dealer in April (reluctantly) and it was a long painful wait since then.

Do it you will not regret it!
 

Joetidman

Registered User

Jcbmally

Started with nothing & still have most of it left.
Hi all

Currently have a 2016 (PFL) S3 saloon which I love, however with an ever growing family of dogs + 2 kids and the missus the S3 just isn't practical anymore!

Obviously I'm going to take a hit swooping just over a year into a 3 year PCP but the trade off with the everyday practicality is something I'm willing to consider.

Anyway, onto the S4. My local dealer has a Navarra blue model with some good options including sunroof, adaptive suspension, Bose, matrix lights to name a few.

They are offering to take my S3 for £24,700 which will clear the finance, £8k deposit and £650 a month on what seems a very high spec S4, however I've targeted the sales rep with £550pm which I can accept and afford.

I've yet to test drive the S4, that's next week when their demo is in so whether I actually like the car I'm not sure, however reviews and You Tube videos I've seen do praise it highly, however I'm a bit concerned reading about hesitation on pulling off quickly, the S3 is generally off the line pretty sharpish!

So couple of questions...

1. Has anyone gone from S3 to S4 and is the move a positive one? I know it might not be as nippy round the back roads but is the overall driving experience still exciting I.e a bit jeckle and hide when you want it?

2. Does the deal on offer sound good based on the deposit and monthly payments?

I've done a quick quote on OrangeWheels who are offering around a £7k discount on a similar spec car but waiting to hear how much that costs monthly etc.

Guess it will boil down to the test drive and if I can negotiate any better deals to get the best price.

I do have the option to find the S4 without trading in the S3 and could therefore sell privately but would rather do without the hassle of that.

Thanks for any comments and experiences.
To be honest I went from an A3 saloon to an A4 saloon and in terms of practicality there is not much difference. A4 is more refined and newer tech etc. Why don't you not considered getting the S4 Avant.
 

R.A.G

Registered User
Hi all

Currently have a 2016 (PFL) S3 saloon which I love, however with an ever growing family of dogs + 2 kids and the missus the S3 just isn't practical anymore!

Obviously I'm going to take a hit swooping just over a year into a 3 year PCP but the trade off with the everyday practicality is something I'm willing to consider.

Anyway, onto the S4. My local dealer has a Navarra blue model with some good options including sunroof, adaptive suspension, Bose, matrix lights to name a few.

They are offering to take my S3 for £24,700 which will clear the finance, £8k deposit and £650 a month on what seems a very high spec S4, however I've targeted the sales rep with £550pm which I can accept and afford.

I've yet to test drive the S4, that's next week when their demo is in so whether I actually like the car I'm not sure, however reviews and You Tube videos I've seen do praise it highly, however I'm a bit concerned reading about hesitation on pulling off quickly, the S3 is generally off the line pretty sharpish!

So couple of questions...

1. Has anyone gone from S3 to S4 and is the move a positive one? I know it might not be as nippy round the back roads but is the overall driving experience still exciting I.e a bit jeckle and hide when you want it?

2. Does the deal on offer sound good based on the deposit and monthly payments?

I've done a quick quote on OrangeWheels who are offering around a £7k discount on a similar spec car but waiting to hear how much that costs monthly etc.

Guess it will boil down to the test drive and if I can negotiate any better deals to get the best price.

I do have the option to find the S4 without trading in the S3 and could therefore sell privately but would rather do without the hassle of that.

Thanks for any comments and experiences.

From some very rough calculations it sounds like the £650 a month offer is based on zero discount. If you aim for at least 15% off list you should comfortably get under £550 a month with an £8k deposit and no negative equity.

Good luck with the negotiations.
 

Daggerit

Registered User
Yeah, I don't know about the deal... You're at 20k a year rather than my 10k but I'm paying just under £650 a month with a £2,000 deposit and almost every option box ticked. I imagine that they could probably do a bit better...


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Riko0073

Registered User
To be honest I went from an A3 saloon to an A4 saloon and in terms of practicality there is not much difference. A4 is more refined and newer tech etc. Why don't you not considered getting the S4 Avant.

Hi

Yes as per the title, it is the S4 Avant I'm considering for practicality reasons.
 

Riko0073

Registered User
From some very rough calculations it sounds like the £650 a month offer is based on zero discount. If you aim for at least 15% off list you should comfortably get under £550 a month with an £8k deposit and no negative equity.

Good luck with the negotiations.
Cheers mate

So 15% discount is achievable on a dealer stock S4 Avant you think?

They're saying there is a £3,150 contribution.

Let's see what he comes back with tomorrow to increase any discount and get down to at least £550pm hopefully!
 

D7Abbott7

Registered User
It is definitely achievable I've ordered an s4 avant to be factory built and the cars list price was £52k and with a measly £500 deposit I am paying £579 a month over 48 months with 10000 miles s year. So with an £8k deposit I'd be looking at £450 a month I would say ( based on per £1000 paid off that's £25 a month less from my experience of adding £1000 options) maybe more to be honest
 

R.A.G

Registered User
Cheers mate

So 15% discount is achievable on a dealer stock S4 Avant you think?

They're saying there is a £3,150 contribution.

Let's see what he comes back with tomorrow to increase any discount and get down to at least £550pm hopefully!

Yeah you should be able to get that kind of discount on dealer/group stock, or factory order, but it does very much depend on the dealer in question.

I managed 15% of a group stock S5 Sportback, different car but similar list price and discounts out there.

There are a lot of good deals out there at the moment, the car trade has had a bit of a slump in the last few months due to the bad press about diesels and the VED changes so it's a buyers market.
 

D7Abbott7

Registered User
Yeah you should be able to get that kind of discount on dealer/group stock, or factory order, but it does very much depend on the dealer in question.

I managed 15% of a group stock S5 Sportback, different car but similar list price and discounts out there.

There are a lot of good deals out there at the moment, the car trade has had a bit of a slump in the last few months due to the bad press about diesels and the VED changes so it's a buyers market.


Very true the best I git around me was 6% until I species one on coast2coast cars and they gave me £8500 off straight away!!
 

Riko0073

Registered User
It is definitely achievable I've ordered an s4 avant to be factory built and the cars list price was £52k and with a measly £500 deposit I am paying £579 a month over 48 months with 10000 miles s year. So with an £8k deposit I'd be looking at £450 a month I would say ( based on per £1000 paid off that's £25 a month less from my experience of adding £1000 options) maybe more to be honest
Would you mind saying which broker/dealer you went through please?
 

Dunders

Registered User
Defo think you can get a better deal. I've got a factory car on order, got 15% discount off a £50k list, 2k down and £525 a month. This was all done through Carwow.
 

Riko0073

Registered User
Defo think you can get a better deal. I've got a factory car on order, got 15% discount off a £50k list, 2k down and £525 a month. This was all done through Carwow.
That sounds like a great deal!

I'm in discussion with a dealer now via CarWow, hopefully they can come up with a good offer.

Out of interest what's your annual mileage set at as I need to go with 20k?
 

Dunders

Registered User
Sorry should have said - 8k so a lot lower than yours. No expert but would have thought you can improve on the deal you've got though. Others on here will know better but I understand the mileage only matters on a PCP if you hand it back at the end of the term.
 

D7Abbott7

Registered User
Would you mind saying which broker/dealer you went through please?

Not at all I went through coast2coastcars.co.uk you just spec up on their and they tell you straight away on the website how much they will get off (around £9k at the moment) they then put you in touch with a dealer nearish to you and then you go from there.
 

RandomUserName

Registered User
This is my understanding of the way PCP works which might help you judge what sort of discounts you can expect...

The higher the mileage, the lower the guaranteed future value will be - cars with more miles on them are worth less. As you are financing the difference between the purchase price of car (less your deposit and any dealer contribution) and how much it's worth at the end, then your monthly payments will be higher if you do higher mileage. At the end of the PCP the end result is that the money spent + current car value is pretty much the same regardless of what the deposit/duration/miles was in the end (there's some difference sure, but it's small compared to what you've coughed up so far)

Might be worth taking a look at the Carwow PCP calculator here ->

https://www.carwow.co.uk/pcp-calculator

It's definately worth shopping around though as the amount of dealer margin is where you can see some real differences in the quotes you get back (this is obvious in the dealer contribution/discount amounts they will quote you on their paperwork, but they can also hide it/get it back somewhat in the guaranteed future value). Also remember that getting a 9k discount on a 25k car doing 30k miles a year is not going to happen, but on a 55k car with low mileage it's certainly possible. I got a 13% discount on mine with next to no deposit and a 25k annual mileage so I was happy with that. I would say don't go crazy on the deposit amount, but either way it will only really save you the difference between what interest you could earn on the deposit amount and the 3.9% Audi finance charge you, so it's not huge difference either way.

I believe that some dealers may also take a "gamble" on if they think they can trade you up before your agreement ends when the car may actually be worth more than the amount you've paid in would suggest. So in 2 years they'll offer you 20k trade-in value for it which matches what you'd get from WeBuyAnyCar etc., but as it's in good nick they can give it a valet and then pass it on as a 25k approved-used car with no problem as there's plenty of people who won't shop around for the very best deals. I'm not sure if the finance companies and dealers are very clever, or if this is a huge "sub-prime" timebomb waiting to kick in sometime in the next few years...they've been doing it for years of course, but the internet is starting to catch them all out I feel...

If you're handing the car back at the end, then really all that matters is monthly budget - just get the most car you can for your budget but don't go over the mileage or else you're get hit with nasty fees at the end when you give it back.
 

Brasso

Registered User
I went S3 SB to S4 Avant and love it. Much better car for me. Practical more refined. Just as quick.


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zippster

Registered User
I went S3 SB to S4 Avant and love it. Much better car for me. Practical more refined. Just as quick.


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Totally agree! But don't forget the noise! Oh the noise 220miles on mine now and it's sounding fantastic!
 

Riko0073

Registered User
Thanks for the replies guys, you're certainly praising the S4 and a good move from the S3.

Test drive booked for Tuesday where I've got it for the day to get a good feel for the car etc.

However, currently struggling to get anywhere near my target monthly payment, best so far is £589pm with £8k deposit over 48 months with 20k mileage allowance. Dealer is giving £5,850 off list but it is a well spec 'd car including pan roof, dynamic steering, b&o, light & vision, Audi phone box, privacy glass, 19" alloys in Navarra.

I would like the adjustable dampers to improve the ride, anyone have experience with this and is it really noticeable?

I will of course continue to push for a better deal, if I can get below £550pm then I'd be interested but not really happy parting with £8k deposit!

Waiting on a dealer via Orange Wheels to come back to me who are offering around £7.5k off a very high spec S4.
 

Riko0073

Registered User
Also....I do have the cash to pay for outright, is it best to get the best deal on PCP so take advantage of any Audi contributions and then settle in full within 14 days without penalty and still retaining the discounts?

Quite frankly my savings aren't earning anything so seems to make sense to use that and avoid the interest charges over the next few years!
 

A4B9

Registered User
Also....I do have the cash to pay for outright, is it best to get the best deal on PCP so take advantage of any Audi contributions and then settle in full within 14 days without penalty and still retaining the discounts?

Quite frankly my savings aren't earning anything so seems to make sense to use that and avoid the interest charges over the next few years!
That's what I did with my car, was easy enough to do.
 

Ad72

Registered User
You can get a pretty accurate guide by using the on line finance calculator on the audi web site. Chose the car, set the mileage and term length. This will give you a price for a base car and show the finance contribution. Then add in your deposit to take the total deposit Including contribution to the discount you wish to achieve say £7k. This monthly price on a 10k per year 48 month PCP will alter by £23/month for every £1000 worth of extras or £1000 of deposit added. Watch Audi because a 48 month PCP means 1 x deposit and 47 payments NOT a deposit and 48 monthly payments as a lot of dealers try and tell you. I would suspect the dealer is using some of the discount / deposit contribution to clear your S3 finance and hiding the figures. If you let me have your spec I'll work out the figures if it helps.
Edit- still £23/ month/ £1k with 20k miles per year.
Basic S4 avant with no deposit, £7k discount , 20k miles a year is 47 x £592.71 with an optional final payment of £16,340.
So based on £5500 worth of extras (add £126.50 / month) and a deposit of £8000 ( £200 / month) the monthly payments are around £520 / month.

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cuke2u

Registered User
If you're not planning just to hand the car back then reduced the yearly mileage...
 

Riko0073

Registered User
You can get a pretty accurate guide by using the on line finance calculator on the audi web site. Chose the car, set the mileage and term length. This will give you a price for a base car and show the finance contribution. Then add in your deposit to take the total deposit Including contribution to the discount you wish to achieve say £7k. This monthly price on a 10k per year 48 month PCP will alter by £23/month for every £1000 worth of extras or £1000 of deposit added. Watch Audi because a 48 month PCP means 1 x deposit and 47 payments NOT a deposit and 48 monthly payments as a lot of dealers try and tell you. I would suspect the dealer is using some of the discount / deposit contribution to clear your S3 finance and hiding the figures. If you let me have your spec I'll work out the figures if it helps.
Edit- still £23/ month/ £1k with 20k miles per year.
Basic S4 avant with no deposit, £7k discount , 20k miles a year is 47 x £592.71 with an optional final payment of £16,340.
So based on £5500 worth of extras (add £126.50 / month) and a deposit of £8000 ( £200 / month) the monthly payments are around £520 / month.

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Thanks Ad72, that's really useful info.

When you say provide my spec to work out figures, is this for my current S3 so you can work out its trade in value or do you mean on the spec of the S4 to help work out the monthlies?...the latter I can probably do myself now with the help you've given.
 

Ad72

Registered User
Thanks Ad72, that's really useful info.

When you say provide my spec to work out figures, is this for my current S3 so you can work out its trade in value or do you mean on the spec of the S4 to help work out the monthlies?...the latter I can probably do myself now with the help you've given.

Was on about the latter but if they are giving you the finance settlement value for your S3 then it's value doesn't really matter unless it's worth more than the settlement figure. Evans Halshaw online trade in value is pretty accurate for a fair trade in price guide.


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RandomUserName

Registered User
If you're not planning just to hand the car back then reduced the yearly mileage...

Not judging anyone, but I would have thought Audi would view that as fraud as it's intentional deceit on your part? Both parties have agreed to a monthly payment and GMFV based on your declared mileage, but if you're planning on going way over that mileage then that is a significant financial risk to them - at any point in time the car is worth less than they have factored into their sums. They can track the mileage at each service interval, so will soon be able to see the yearly total is way too low, and it should raise an alert somewhere at their end. I guess the question is do they do anything about this sort of thing currently or do they turn a blind eye to it? More importantly is their future policy over the next 4 years going to change and they start to crack down on it?

I think if it was that easy to reduce monthly payments, then everyone would say they are doing 8k mileage a year, get a low monthly repayment, and stick the extra cash they saved into a savings account somewhere and use that to pay off the extra cash/fines at the end of the term and end up quids in.

The other thing to consider is when you come to buy the car at the end of the PCP, the GMFV is going to be based on the lower mileage so will be ,say 26k, but the car will actually only be worth 16k as a result of the higher mileage covered. To purchase the car you'll have to pay Audi the full 26k as per the agreement you signed and I'm guessing also an *additional* excess mileage fine of 40,000 miles at 8p a mile. However you're only getting 16k's worth of car for all that expense. Fine if you have the cash to do that, but if you are financing the 26k you'd then have to commit fraud a second time on the loan application for that money as nobody is going to loan you 26k to buy a 10k car.

At the end of the day it's not often you get something for nothing, and the clever finance people at Audi (and all the other finance brokers) have already thought of all these "loopholes" years ago and they will get all of their money either by hook or crook.
 

Ad72

Registered User
I think you're over thinking it, if you agree a low annual mileage and exceed the total miles allowed you will have to pay a pence/mile fee before you hand it back. If you intend keeping the car at the end you will have a higher final payment to pay so will just be offsetting the payments from monthly to the end. The only way you can gain is if you don't exceed the total miles allowed before paying for half the total payable value and then voluntarily terminate the agreement.this is normally about 3/4 of the way through. I don't think anyone is trying to commit fraud.


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Simonb1975

Guest
Fraud. Not really, this would be factored into Audi s figures. The PCP finance method wasn't just thrown together by car manufacturers without any thought. If you go for a lower mileage than you should to get lower monthlies, that's your own fault. Sometimes you might think you need to, but you lose not the dealer.
 
S

Simonb1975

Guest
Probably worth pointing out that although you can hand the car back, PCP is really designed as a lot of people want a new every 3/4 years.
Handing back maybe, but buying outright isn't really the point of PCP
 

R.A.G

Registered User
Not judging anyone, but I would have thought Audi would view that as fraud as it's intentional deceit on your part? Both parties have agreed to a monthly payment and GMFV based on your declared mileage, but if you're planning on going way over that mileage then that is a significant financial risk to them - at any point in time the car is worth less than they have factored into their sums. They can track the mileage at each service interval, so will soon be able to see the yearly total is way too low, and it should raise an alert somewhere at their end. I guess the question is do they do anything about this sort of thing currently or do they turn a blind eye to it? More importantly is their future policy over the next 4 years going to change and they start to crack down on it?

I think if it was that easy to reduce monthly payments, then everyone would say they are doing 8k mileage a year, get a low monthly repayment, and stick the extra cash they saved into a savings account somewhere and use that to pay off the extra cash/fines at the end of the term and end up quids in.

The other thing to consider is when you come to buy the car at the end of the PCP, the GMFV is going to be based on the lower mileage so will be ,say 26k, but the car will actually only be worth 16k as a result of the higher mileage covered. To purchase the car you'll have to pay Audi the full 26k as per the agreement you signed and I'm guessing also an *additional* excess mileage fine of 40,000 miles at 8p a mile. However you're only getting 16k's worth of car for all that expense. Fine if you have the cash to do that, but if you are financing the 26k you'd then have to commit fraud a second time on the loan application for that money as nobody is going to loan you 26k to buy a 10k car.

At the end of the day it's not often you get something for nothing, and the clever finance people at Audi (and all the other finance brokers) have already thought of all these "loopholes" years ago and they will get all of their money either by hook or crook.

As others have stated, Audi Finance (or any other PCP provider) couldn't care less what contracted mileage you agree vs the mileage you actually cover during the term. If you grossly under spec it, you're the one that loses, not the finance company as you are liable for the excess mileage charges. They actually make more money in this scenario as the mileage excesses are generally steeper than increasing the contracted mileage at contract inception.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Fraud doesn't enter into it as many have done this and audi don't give a damm. You only pay an mileage excess if you just hand the car back without entering into another deal. I have done just this with my A3 to get me into a A4...
 

Riko0073

Registered User
Was on about the latter but if they are giving you the finance settlement value for your S3 then it's value doesn't really matter unless it's worth more than the settlement figure. Evans Halshaw online trade in value is pretty accurate for a fair trade in price guide.


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Thanks again Ad72.

Yes did the Evans Halshaw quote tool a go and even went in for a physical valuation on Friday, Audi are offering me a little higher, just enough to clear the finance on it so it's just like starting again with the S4.

Going to be a busy few days negotiating with the dealers I have lined up via Orange Wheels, Car Wow and Coast 2 Coast, the latter offering £8,700 off my ideal spec.

Looking forward to my test drive Tuesday
 

5pot

Registered User
Thanks again Ad72.

Yes did the Evans Halshaw quote tool a go and even went in for a physical valuation on Friday, Audi are offering me a little higher, just enough to clear the finance on it so it's just like starting again with the S4.

Going to be a busy few days negotiating with the dealers I have lined up via Orange Wheels, Car Wow and Coast 2 Coast, the latter offering £8,700 off my ideal spec.

Looking forward to my test drive Tuesday
Also try Walton Audi through here for a quote. At the top of the page new car quote. £8k easily achievable
 

Riko0073

Registered User
So I ordered my S4 Avant today, to say I'm excited is an understatement after the test drive last week!

Spec is...

Daytona
Magma red interior
19" V spoke alloys
Sport diff
Sports suspension/adjustable dampers
Red calipers
Carbon inlays
Light and Vision
Comfort pack
Electric fold and heated mirrors
Privacy glass

I've loved my S3 Saloon which I've ran for the last year but the S4 offers a lot more for me and the practicality is what I need right now, although it is very understated it's real discrete weapon when needed.

Now the long wait, hopefully no later than September!!
 

Daggerit

Registered User
So I ordered my S4 Avant today, to say I'm excited is an understatement after the test drive last week!

Spec is...

Daytona
Magma red interior
19" V spoke alloys
Sport diff
Sports suspension/adjustable dampers
Red calipers
Carbon inlays
Light and Vision
Comfort pack
Electric fold and heated mirrors
Privacy glass

I've loved my S3 Saloon which I've ran for the last year but the S4 offers a lot more for me and the practicality is what I need right now, although it is very understated it's real discrete weapon when needed.

Now the long wait, hopefully no later than September!!

Nice spec. Looks like there will be quite a few of us getting ours in September! Feels like a long wait but I'm hopeful it'll come around soon enough.


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Ad72

Registered User
Your spec sounds lovely. Had to cancel my S4 yesterday, car not built yet but the dealer is keeping the deposit so a double blow. Mind you the dealer hasn't been the best as I've not even test driven one yet!!
 
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