S3 Sump Removal and Refit (with pics)

[danger S3]

OK, so I decided to drop my sump, check the oil pickup and give it a good clean while I was in there.

so I have an AMK S3 2001 that i bought a couple of months ago, its done 102k miles and has been on the longlife service since new. its last one was 2k miles ago.

there are 20 bolts round the sump (10mm hex/5mm allen key), 3 big (16mm hex) bolts through the gearbox into the sump from the side.

there are another 5 x 5mm allen key bolts that hold the oil level sensor and the return pipe on.

these are the 3 big bolts that need removed too, as you can see in the picture below there is a very annoyingly placed pipe that gets in the way quite a lot.
there is a bracket holding it on which can be undone so it can be held out the way a bit, but its still a pain.
(also i don't know why this picture insists on being sideways)

the 3 annoying wee bolts below are at the same side of the sump as the 3 big bolts

This is the dirty oil, it was just like normal dirty oil, wasn't very sludgy probably cause it was only changed 2k miles ago

below are 2 images of the sump when it was removed, you can see the burnt oil deposits round the edge that are well caked on

Below is the oil pickup, as you can see it looks slightly blocked

I then started to clean up the pickup. at first it didnt look too bad, i cleaned the whole thing using carb cleaner and got all the oil off.
when i looked closer at the mesh I noticed most of the wee holes were filled with what seemed like a grit sort of substance so i used a pin to poke through every hole and clear them, then blow the grit through the mesh and out of the pipe.


For cleaning the sump I used Carb cleaner again and some Gunk degreaser.
after a couple of hours of of cleaning with a toothbrush, scouring pad and a paint brush it looked like this, the remaining marks refuse to shift but that's fine with me

I put a wee bead of silicone all the way round the edge of the sump as per the instructions in elsawin.
Fitting is basically the reverse of removing do them up finger tight and then tighten them up diagonally and work your way round

I replaced the oil filter as well of coarse but the person who put it on must have been the incredible hulk cause it was on stupidly tight and removing it with a strap socket tool actually crushed and deformed the old oil filter (i had to use a 1M bar on the ratchet to get leverage to get it to shift and undo)
new one, wee bit of new oil round the seal, screwed on till it touches then do a 3/4 turn and its sweet and not leaking

BUT

it would appear I made a slight mistake when doing the silicone and I don't think I put enough in the top left as when the car is running and the oils under pressure it leaks from there so I will have to drop it again soon and redo all the silicone

 

[barters3]

Good write up.
I need to get mine sorted, however i dont fancy tackling it on axle stands in the street!
How much would people expect to pay for this at a specialist garage?

 

[thorsy22]

Cheers danger, need to do this. Need any special tools?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Good write up.
I need to get mine sorted, however i dont fancy tackling it on axle stands in the street!
How much would people expect to pay for this at a specialist garage?

That would be tricky to say for sure... taking the sump off and putting it back on is straight forward enough but cleaning could take a while depending on how keen they were to do the job right... factor in an oil change too... prob couple of hours plus parts?

<tuffty/>

 

[voorhees]

Good work Danger,I was thinking the same Paul

 

[jimmp]

well done Ali- that's amazing!

great photography- how did you get the pickup pipe out of the crankcase?

You may find the silicone needs to "bed-in" and after a day or two is stops leaking...?

Are you doing the cam-cover today?

JimP

 

[fingermouse]

nice write up cheers

 

[danger S3]

thorsy22:
Cheers danger, need to do this. Need any special tools?

Na I didn't need any special tools for it, just a socket set, torque wrench, 5mm allen key, flat head screw driver

jimmp:
great photography- how did you get the pickup pipe out of the crankcase?

You may find the silicone needs to "bed-in" and after a day or two is stops leaking...?

The pickup was attached with 2 x 5mm allen key bolts and undid fairly easily
the sump is to be fitted within 5 minutes of adding the silicone and then the oil shouldn't be added for another 30 minutes after that, I'm thinking I just didn't put quite enough sealant on :-(

 

[finesse]

excellent work

 

[rossbrownlee]

for anyone who is considering having a garage do this fror them & clear it out, bear in mind that you can get a new sump pan for about £40 plus.
It may end up more cost effective to replace rather than service in this case depending on the labour rates etc. also, you would then have a sump pan to clean at your leisure and ebay etc.
just a thought.

 

[danger S3]

rossbrownlee:
for anyone who is considering having a garage do this fror them & clear it out, bear in mind that you can get a new sump pan for about £40 plus.
It may end up more cost effective to replace rather than service in this case depending on the labour rates etc. also, you would then have a sump pan to clean at your leisure and ebay etc.
just a thought.

funny you should say that because when I was cleaning my sump I was thinking damn it I should have just bought a new one, but it was a nice day and it kept me out of mischief for the day

 

[barters3]

for anyone who is considering having a garage do this fror them & clear it out, bear in mind that you can get a new sump pan for about £40 plus.
It may end up more cost effective to replace rather than service in this case depending on the labour rates etc. also, you would then have a sump pan to clean at your leisure and ebay etc.
just a thought.

Straight after posting i had a look on the bay and found a few for just over £40. I think this is the route ill go down as id be looking at somewhere in the region of £45+ for an hours labour.
Is the pick up line available from audi? im sure i read that its around £12, can anyone confirm?

 

[Welly]

funny you should say that because when I was cleaning my sump I was thinking damn it I should have just bought a new one, but it was a nice day and it kept me out of mischief for the day

1 x 240 volt drill and 1 x wire brush bit makes the job effortless..... lol. :thumbsup:

 

[<tuffty/>]

Straight after posting i had a look on the bay and found a few for just over £40. I think this is the route ill go down as id be looking at somewhere in the region of £45+ for an hours labour.
Is the pick up line available from audi? im sure i read that its around £12, can anyone confirm?

Are they pattern parts? There are a few pattern parts on eBay and not sure how good they are... a few aftermarket ones I have seen are warped but thats not to say these will be of course... the other thing to consider is the material they are made from... 1.8t sumps are quite low before lowering of the car so tend to get hit about a lot...

Check with Audi directly before buying an eBay one as you may well find you can get a genuine one for just a little more and will know its not going to have issues... one other thing for anyone doing this themselves, use the VAG sump sealant... its not expensive and no sump I have done using the stuff has leaked... ever.... I have seen the results of other 'sump sealants' leak like a sieve....

The oil pump pickup is around the £12 mark iirc but a quick call to the dealer (haggle for a 10% discount using the 'is that the best price you can do' line... works for me)

<tuffty/>

 

[rossbrownlee]

funny you should say that because when I was cleaning my sump I was thinking damn it I should have just bought a new one, but it was a nice day and it kept me out of mischief for the day

yeah mate i was aiming that comment to people who are considering paying garage labour rates for the cleaning it out time.
I am with you, it is gratifying to sort out these wee jobs yourself.

 

[rossbrownlee]

Check with Audi directly before buying an eBay one as you may well find you can get a genuine one for just a little more and will know its not going to have issues...

When I got mine in January for the APY it was �82.80 so imo it is worth a punt for an ebay job.

The oil pump pickup is around the �12 mark iirc but a quick call to the dealer (haggle for a 10% discount using the 'is that the best price you can do' line... works for me)

yeah the pickup pipe for mine was �7.30. for anyone interested the part no was 06A-115-251, you will also need an o-ring seal p/n N0282222 (although funnily enough the price for that was �2.82!!).
Also, the genuine audi sealant p/n is D176404A2 (�15.44)

 

[Westy]

I paid about £80ish for my VAG specialist to remove my sump and replace the oil pickup but I think they pretty much just gave the sump a wipe round with a cloth and put it back on.

 

[ptr]

Thanks for the write up, I'll definitely be doing this in a few weeks. Although it will be an axle stands on the drive way jobby!

 

[The Doctor]

Great stuff, I'm going to do mine over Christmas/New Year as the service is due then anyway. Could be a bit chilly, but it's better than staying in and watching crap on TV!

 

[barters3]

Are they pattern parts? There are a few pattern parts on eBay and not sure how good they are... a few aftermarket ones I have seen are warped but thats not to say these will be of course... the other thing to consider is the material they are made from... 1.8t sumps are quite low before lowering of the car so tend to get hit about a lot...

Check with Audi directly before buying an eBay one as you may well find you can get a genuine one for just a little more and will know its not going to have issues... one other thing for anyone doing this themselves, use the VAG sump sealant... its not expensive and no sump I have done using the stuff has leaked... ever.... I have seen the results of other 'sump sealants' leak like a sieve....

The oil pump pickup is around the £12 mark iirc but a quick call to the dealer (haggle for a 10% discount using the 'is that the best price you can do' line... works for me)

<tuffty/>

I did wonder about the quality. iv been thinking about it and i think im going to get a specialist to drop it, replace the pick up and give it a clean. unless a decent genuine item pops up on ebay.

 

[danger S3]

OK so take 2
because the sump was leaking from the sealant in the front corner where it joins the gearbox i had to drop it again.
so, i drained the oil again into an old oil can with the side cut out so I could reuse it as its only done about 5 miles since yesterday when I put it in.

i removed it the same as before but thankfully didn't have todo all the cleaning again, all I had todo was clean off the old sealant.
the old sealant was stuck on quite well most of the way round apart from the gearbox end where it was leaking.

this time when applying the sealant I put more on round the whole sump, and checked on the engine block exactly where it was to go on the side with the gearbox as its quite narrow in places.

In the oil I found lots of we bits of grit like stuff so I was careful when putting it back in the car to keep all the bits in the can I caught it in, also i was surprised how dirty the oil looks after only 5 miles.

plus there was a penny in there from somewhere

anyway im going to change the cam cover gasket soon and give the cam cover a damn good clean too cause im sure that will be equally minging on the inside (plus i can make the outside all shiny )

then after 500 - 1k miles I will do a full oil change again to get it all cleaner and happier

before I did all this my car sounded like a diesel for the first 1/2 a second when I started it, today after I put it all back together I started it and ran it for a bit then turned it off to tidy up and dry all my tools as it was chucking it down all afternoon and them and me were soaked.
once I finished tidying up and went to head home I started it and it sounded sweet with no diesel noise :icon_thumright:

 

[jimmp]

that's wild- I can't believe the state of that oil after only 5 miles!

good job though- should be sorted now though, eh...?

JimP

 

[barters3]

Would anybody recommend putting an oil cleaner through before hand? i have heard mixed reviews on oil flushing agents....

 

[ChrisSThree]

I did the exact same job this weekend, after hearing horror stories about blocked pick up pipes.
Have to say it was an easy job, with everything coming apart easily. The sump was fairly dirty on the sides above the level where the oil sits (just like dangers) I did find plenty of bits of broken dipstick plastic but all in all it was pretty clean in there. I did put a comma oil cleaner in before hand for 20 minutes but I'm not convinced it did that much.

 

[The Doctor]

plus there was a penny in there from somewhere

Damn it, that's what I was going to say! Really good write-up though danger. Anyone else recommend / not recommend a flush before dropping the sump?

 

[Dazboss]

Good work there mate, one quick question did you replace the gasket for the Turbo return pipe or use the RTV sealent ?

 

[danger S3]

Dazboss:
Good work there mate, one quick question did you replace the gasket for the Turbo return pipe or use the RTV sealent ?

there was still a gasket stuck to the side of the sump and i just reused it and it worked fine

 

[Dazboss]

Cheers & what about the oil level sensor was there a gasket for that too ? as Audi said there is no gasket listed for that part, im guessing it RTV jobby.

 

[rossbrownlee]

the oil level sensor has its own seal as part of it, when u take it off clean it up and you wll see the sealing ring.

 

[danger S3]

Thought I should add in what the torque settings should be for the various bolts as I forgot to put them in before

installing sump Components
Sump to:
Cylinder block 15 Nm (wee bolts x 20)
Gearbox 40 Nm (big bolts x 3)

Oil return pipe to sump 10 Nm
Oil drain plug 30 Nm

 

[scoobyra]

What a helpful thread mate. Nice one and a good write up too!

 

[rossbrownlee]

installing sump Components
Sump to:
Cylinder block 15 Nm (wee bolts x 20)
Gearbox 40 Nm (big bolts x 3)
Oil return pipe to sump 10 Nm
Oil drain plug 30 Nm

And another thing -
1. - Pre-tighten bolts -1 ... 20- in diagonal sequence to 5 Nm.
2. - Tighten bolts for sump/gearbox to 40 Nm (use new bolts).
3. - Tighten bolts -1 ... 20- in diagonal sequence to 15 Nm.

 

[danger S3]

And another thing -
1. - Pre-tighten bolts -1 ... 20- in diagonal sequence to 5 Nm.
2. - Tighten bolts for sump/gearbox to 40 Nm (use new bolts).
3. - Tighten bolts -1 ... 20- in diagonal sequence to 15 Nm.

Yes, thanks thats a good point and a very important part of it and spreading the sealant around in the right way

 

[Pabl0]

Got everything to do this job, plus a half day at work tomorrow

Been busy with the haldex and diff today so will be nice to get to the front

You guys reckon that gunk will remove most of this or am i looking for something abit more powerful.

I have my van full of tools including drill and flap wheels etc.

 

[danger S3]

i used Gunk and carb cleaner pn the sump and it was pretty hard to remove alot of it but some good scrubing and it cleans up.
The pickup is easy to clean, just spray with carb cleaner and remember to poke out the holes with a pin cause they will probably have grit in them.

and watch out for those pesky pennies

 

[jimmp]

what are you like!!?

that freaked me out!!

 

[5ean]

You say new bolts, did you get them from Audi also? If so, you got the PN??

Cheers

And another thing -
1. - Pre-tighten bolts -1 ... 20- in diagonal sequence to 5 Nm.
2. - Tighten bolts for sump/gearbox to 40 Nm (use new bolts).
3. - Tighten bolts -1 ... 20- in diagonal sequence to 15 Nm.

 

[danger S3]

I replaced the 20 wee bolts that hold the sump on as i chewed some getting them out, i think the part numbers for them were N 907 356 03

as for the 3 big bolts from the gearbox into the sump, i reused the old ones and im not sure what the part numbers for new ones would be but Audi should be able to tell you

 

[Pedrosousa]

I reused all the bolts, and it's ok.... I've done the same in other cars.

After seeing those pics I can just say, and I was think that my car has oil leaks....

By the way, the sump of my car was exactly like this... :S

 

[5ean]

Are the part numbers below for the pickup pipe suitable for the AMK engine?

yeah the pickup pipe for mine was �7.30. for anyone interested the part no was 06A-115-251, you will also need an o-ring seal p/n N0282222 (although funnily enough the price for that was �2.82!!).
Also, the genuine audi sealant p/n is D176404A2 (�15.44