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S3 stage2 and stage3 parts recommendations ??

Emir Yilmaz Dec 11, 2019

  1. Emir Yilmaz

    Emir Yilmaz New Member

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    Good day. I want to upgrade my S3 to stage2 and directly to stage3. Could you inform me about the parts that I need to change?
    Thanks.
    140.000km already.
     
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  3. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    Personally I wouldn't go further than stage 2. As much as Id be tempted to get a bigger turbo (and higher pressure fuel pump) when my turbo packs up, all that extra torque will be putting an awful lot of strain on the engine internals. People have done it with success but I think you are asking for trouble. These engines are very expensive to fix when they break (many 1000s) and the stock components do have limits. Stage 2 isnt ridiculous on the loading but obviously still can break things.

    Stage 2: Uprated intercooler, intake (R600), downpipe and sports cats, exhaust. colder grade plugs (NGK). stage 2 Remap

    and also depending on your transmission:

    Manual: uprated clutch (absolutley essential, even for stage 1 really)
    Auto: DSG remap
     
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  4. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    Probably better to build up incrementally through the stages, progressing if nothing fails. Stage 1 costs plus repairs will be way cheaper than stage 3 plus repairs. Unless you're the determined sort of course :smilingimp:

    I think some of the big names now give you the software free as you progress, so may end up costing much the same. You probably have to buy their hardware though.

    If you're DSG, consider which gearbox you have and which revision it is. Some maps put way more torque through them than they're rated for, which for most is fine, but still worth considering. IIRC the 7 speed is quite a bit stronger than the 6. Clutches seem to get mentioned a fair bit, but this doesn't seem to get mentioned.
     
  5. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    Personally I wouldn't bother with stage 1 and go straight for some form of stage 2, even if its not a full stage 2. Mine isnt a full stage 2: uprated intercooler, OEM intake mod with bigger airbox to turbo inlet pipe (effectively the makings of an R600 intake) and a stage 2 custom tune remap. Exhaust side is all stock. In my opinion the uprated intercooler is also fairly essential to help keep the inlet temps stable, and it really does. With those mods my car made 390 break, 391lbs foot on a hot summers day where the ambient air temp was 25 C. The tuner commented that what I had done was probably the best bang for buck, although I am somewhat tempted to replace the downpipe / cat with the sports version to help it flow better at the top end.
     
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  6. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    If you take a look at the APR / Revo / Racingline websites you’ll see they all suggest the same components Damo has highlighted at the different stages. Depends how dedicated you are to that car I guess. May not be too much difference between going stage 3 and getting a secondhand RS3 and going stage 1/2. Depending on the car and the tuner of course.

    Stage 1 will be your best bang for buck increase. As with most things the price then goes up, whilst the gains get incrementally smaller relatively speaking. The next big performance jump would be stage 3, but then your paying big money and potentially over-stressing the stock components.

    Full stage 2 seems to be an interim step to me in terms of what you get out of it. I’ll probably do this next year if nothing breaks before, but mostly because I want the downpipe which requires a new map anyway.

    Mine made ~380PS and 555NM with a panel filter and a stage 1 map. Stage 2 would add around half the power again, 400 - 420, but costs nearly twice as much because of the parts.

    Will probably do the airbox mod too, as I think the R600 only really comes into its own for stage 3 numbers. Although, it would look lovely under the bonnet :)
     
  7. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    Yes definitely do the airbox mod and for the sake of a couple of 200 quid, something like the turbo technics airbox to turbo inlet pipe as well.
    But yes you are right the additional stage 2 components will only really give you marginal gains. Not sure I'd really notice another 20 or so bhp if I did the full exhaust side and for what ... 2 grand? The car is plenty fast enough as it is anyway now.
     
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  8. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    Yeah. I was looking at getting the TT pipe too. From what I’ve read the elbow seems to be the biggest restriction on the inlet side. I also like that it’s one piece. Did you notice any more spool up sound with the TT pipe? Or have you changed the panel too at the same time?

    I went the exhaust route purely for sound at the moment. Just makes the car more fun to drive. Catback for now, DP when funds permit a retune.
     
  9. Leevr

    Leevr Well-Known Member Audi S3 Porsche Viper Green

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    All this gives 402 bhp and 560Nm of torque. Not cheap, but power and torque is very noticeable over stage 1. Absolutely fantastic on full throttle.
    Screenshot_20191213-120430_ColorNote.jpg
     
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  10. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    Good numbers there. Lots of extra hardware for smaller gains (vs going to stg1) in terms of peak numbers, which was my point. But maybe there is a difference in the delivery, the overall performance of the car? The area under the curve as people often say...

    What's the real world difference when driving a stage 2?
     
  11. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    Order was intercooler for which I didnt really notice much difference although it seemed to keep the power stable without there being any fade. Then the oem intake mod which definitely let out more turbo and DV noise plus it felt a little bit stronger at higher rpms. Then, had the inlet pipe, plugs and remap. Yes there was more intake noise again but then its also running higher boost (1.5 bar instead of 1.1 ish) so its hard to know whether the large inlet pipe contributed to that.
     
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  13. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    Tbh your numbers do seem on the high side for stage 1 (especially that torque figure). Maybe you are lucky and just have a strong car, but most stage 1 tunes I've seen get about 360, 365.
     
  14. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    Yeah. I wondered about this. But I have noticed that the big name maps always seem to come in lower than the indie ones. Could be there's some safety factor built into their generic maps due to the fact that they are sometimes just dumped on? Could just be that the dyno read(s) a little high. I had the TCU mapped at the same time, so maybe this allows them to turn things up a little. The gains were 67PS and 143NM.

    TBH, I'd have liked slightly less torque, due to mine being one of the older DSGs (March 2014 car). It's at ~38% more than it's rated at IIRC. I may ask them to limit this next time, as I plan on keeping the car.
     
  15. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    This was my understanding of the intercooler upgrade, that it's more necessary to 'maintain' the power when pushing it continuously, as temps start to rise. I may not notice this change as much, as I tend not to push the car too hard. Will likely do it anyway though. I'll probably do the intake pipe next as it's a simple mod and won't affect my insurance either :) Any extra sound will be a nice bonus, didn't have any before the panel filter and snow guard came out :(
     
  16. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    One thing I have noticed is that the oil temps definitely pick up quicker, and settle higher than stock.
     
  17. Leevr

    Leevr Well-Known Member Audi S3 Porsche Viper Green

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    Power delivery is great
    20191115_153431-3024x1470.jpg
     
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  18. MikeParkin

    MikeParkin Well-Known Member Team Ibis Audi S3 Manual

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    E202637D-73BB-4AE4-B24A-0B44A2D34CF1.jpeg
    This was my dyno before I had the high torque software installed.

    Forge carbon intake
    Forge turbo delete
    034 Dogbone mount
    Scorpion de-cat down pipe
    Res delete pipe
    Wagner intercooler
    CTS Turbo outlet pipe
    APR out let pipe
    CTS Throttle pipe
    Turbo Technics intake pipe
    Sachs 4 paddle clutch kit
    GFB DV+
    Revo stage 2 software

    Obviously there’s other mods but just listed the important ones that I used.
     
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  19. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    But what’s different? Have you got before and after?

    Do the curves stay the same (shape) just higher or do they change?

    Would imagine maybe the power comes in at lower rpms?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  20. Marky-s3

    Marky-s3 Well-Known Member

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    Stage 3 is nuts and a huge gain over stage 2 it's almost like going from stock to stage 1/2 again so don't let others put you off if your committed enough it's something special
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  21. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    Yeah massive, just like stock to stage 1. That’s my point. Is it worth the effort/cost to go stage 2 though if you’re not going to 3?

    Does stage 2 still give you that same wow feeling when you get it?
     
  22. aussieR

    aussieR Active Member

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    I think it's well known stage 1 best bang for buck, you get most out of stage 1 tune with modified stock intake/panel filter or aftermarket intake with inlet like the TT one.

    Whippet- Going from stage 1 to stage 2 won't make car dramatically faster at top speed, it does make it more responsive, stronger in gear pulls but the main thing for most is the enjoyment from better exhaust note with aftermarket DP and intake.

    It would make it noticeabley faster if you were to go from stage 1 no hardware mods and around 360hp 360-370lbs torque to a full bolt on stage 2 which can be producing 400-410hp and 420-430lbs. Seems more often though most people do the inlet/modified intake at stage 1 and have HO tunes so getting more the 380hp and 400lbs which then puts it closer to stage 2 performance.

    It also depends what you use car for and want from it. If you track car etc then stage 3 makes more sense than someone who just uses it as DD and the occasional fast drive as you will lose the low end torque that stage 2 car has.

    I don't think anyone really has regretted going stage 2 or even stage 3 if that path has been coorect for their usage of their car.
     
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  23. Marky-s3

    Marky-s3 Well-Known Member

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    No its not the same I was really strong stage 1 so when I went stage 2 I felt a bit disipointed I made 20 bhp more and 30 ft lb I made 404bhp and 430 ft lb stage 1 with extras on the car so if I was to go back I'd have stayed stage 1 but stage 3 is crazy and not disipointed 510 bhp and 509 ft lb
     
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  24. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    Ok. Thanks chaps, all making sense :icon thumright:

    I’ll be adding all the parts over time anyway, as it’s more of a hobby now. Got to have something to keep us out of trouble eh. I won’t expect too much feel, but will look forward to all the extra noise :friendly wink:
     
  25. Noman

    Noman New Member

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    I own a Audi S3 8V sportback 2018 model and I decided to go stage 1 and broke the gearbox. Luckily it was the clutch packs that needed replacing, decided to go with an uprated racing clutch pack from TVS engineering I can now push up to 600 nm of torque which is more than enough. So far no more problems with the gearbox which is good, but it was an expensive repair!

    Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
     
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  26. Marky-s3

    Marky-s3 Well-Known Member

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    I'm running stage 3 tvs software on standard clutches and takes up to 700 nm I'm current pushing 690 with racing clutches you will be able to run 850 nm on stage 4 software
     
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  27. Noman

    Noman New Member

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    Yeah you're right, the race clutch makes a whole lot of difference to the transmission it's definitely worth it. I just need to get the TVS software now, currently running a custom map but will be changing that soon

    Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
     
  28. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    500 brake and 500 lbs foot must be nuts. STOP GIVING ME BAD THOUGHTS YOU TERRIBLE PEOPLE!
     
  29. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    I've been reading a little into the TVS stuff. I have a TCU map and whilst it is good, it does feel a bit clunky at times. Mostly ok, but sometimes not particularly smooth. It seems to be just when dropping into the lower gears when coming slowing to give way or stop and not all of the time either. I figured this is just part of the deal with TCU tuning?

    Anyway I read that the TVS maps are a bit more OEM like in terms of smoothness, whilst offering the same benefits. So maybe not all TCU tunes are created equal. What are others' experiences with their TCU tunes?
     
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  30. Noman

    Noman New Member

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    I've currently got a custom TCU map on my car and I agree it's not the best I get harsh gear changes sometimes when I upshift. I've got the TVS clutch pack in my gearbox at the moment that maybe why it's slightly harsh but I think it's due to the TCU map as well.

    I'm going to get the TVS stage 3 TCU software installed sometime this month or next and see if it improves the gear shifts.

    Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
     
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  31. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    ...so when reading about torque limitations for the DSG, is this simply for the clutch packs or for mechanics of the gearbox itself? Been a bit worried about giving mine too much since I had the map.

    I bought one of those dragy boxes to do a bit of a before and after test for going stage 1 (and because I like a gadget), but I've been too scared to do the after test :( I've got adjustable launch RPM, so maybe I should just do the softest one and cross my fingers. Only done it twice in the whole time I've owned it :)
     
  32. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    So with the higher stages are they more of a custom map? Seem to remember reading that they tweak these higher maps till they're happy with them..
     
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  34. Noman

    Noman New Member

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    It should be fine, don't do too many launches on the stock clutch though as it strains the gearbox. I did quite a few launches when I had stage 1 and the gearbox broke and started smoking one expensive repair though lol
    Well yeah the higher the stage the more custom the map is. Many remapping companies re map cars differently to others.

    Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
     
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  35. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, never do a proper launch it's so mechanically unsympathetic. Mine is a manual so I get it moving in first fairly quickly with a bit of slip but once the clutch is fully engaged then floor it. Works well. Perhaps it loses several tenths maybe half a second but I've still seen 60 in a fraction under 4 seconds on a good one.
    IMO if you really want to tell the difference then measure the car on an appropriate road from a steady 30 with it in 2nd and ready to go, up to something like 100 before and after.
     
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  36. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    See this sort of talk is what has me worried :) If the clutch is the issue then I'm sure that will wear out eventually and then I'd fit something better. At least that's my plan in general. If/when I get the DP and go stage 2 they have a stage 2 TCU map, so maybe that's better. I can ask I guess. It's just tricky cause I'm essentially saying "the maps not good is this one any better" :)

    That's always been my thoughts on the LC and why I've only done it twice (of those only once in earnest). I did it once to check when I had the Haldex issues and once the day before the map. I've had the car coming up 6 years, so twice in that time is probably nothing to worry about. I know some folk do it all the time and seem to have no issues, and maybe this is fine when stock, but it sure isn't going to make things last any longer :)

    Yeah the Dragy does different timings 30-60 etc, and you can program your own in, for me it would be more of a gimmick/fun thing. I'm not bothered about a few tenths of a second, but would be nice to know roughly. I can definitely feel it's way quicker in every way, just nice to have some figures sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  37. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    I take it this would be one of those roads in Mexico that people have been on about? :racer::busted cop:
     
  38. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    The butt dyno doesnt lie but it becomes desensitized after a while making one paranoid that something is breaking / broken

    0-120 in 12.5 secs v stock in about 18 secs
    60-120 in 6th only : 12 secs vs ragging it through 3rd and 4th when stock : 13.5 secs
     
  39. w.h.i.p.p.e.t

    w.h.i.p.p.e.t Active Member

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    True, but as I hardly use the car any changes will keep it fresh for a while.

    Definitely noticing that extra pull in the higher gears. Keep double checking to see if it's dropped a cog - Nope still in 6th - it just keeps going now, where before it would have been running out of puff.
     
  40. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the higher gears is generally where it becomes more noticeable. I don't know what remap you have but I know mine gives full boost in all gears. 1st gear is ridiculous compared with stock ... when it manages to get the power down. I always found 1st and 2nd (to a degree) just a bit disappointing in stock form due to the reduced boost. Not any more :)
     
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  41. mve7

    mve7 Active Member

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    I go stage 2 soon.

    I think I will go for these parts.

    -armytrix downpipe
    -res delete
    -cts air intake
    -cts turbo inlet pipe
    -stage 2 remap

    would this be good? or do you guys have better suggestions
     
  42. MikeParkin

    MikeParkin Well-Known Member Team Ibis Audi S3 Manual

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    I would add a cooler to that as well pal.
     
  43. mve7

    mve7 Active Member

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    Yea I know but I will wait a bit with that.
     

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