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S3 stage 2 v RS3 stage 1

E15 Aug 5, 2018

  1. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Well-Known Member Team Glacier Audi RS3

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    Who is the tuner? APR, MRC, REVO or something different? And was it a plug n play and drive away or was it optimized for your car?
     
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  3. monopole

    monopole Guest

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    Mines just over 480lb/ft, so the stage 1 maps are pretty much on par all round.
     
  4. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in Team Sepang Audi RS3

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    Is your car Revo stage 1?
    Be interesting to see how an Apr stage 1 performed against the S3.
     
  5. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    Yes bud, Revo stage 1..
     
  6. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in Team Sepang Audi RS3

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    It would make me wonder if it was worth the risk of warranty and tuning for not night and day difference which stage 1 usually is.
     
  7. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    I could feel the difference with stage 1, much better than stock, but this is about an S3..

    I did about 30 miles this morning with a stop halfway through so wouldn't expect heat soak or any other soak tbh and maybe it didn't happen and that the S3 was just ****** quick.

    I'm no technician, don't log anything and just drive the thing.
    I like my car, I like the way it goes now but I was just surprised it didn't leave the S3 in acceleration that's all.

    I'll speak to the dude tomorrow to see if he was sand bagging and I'll have a chat with Revo as I'm not disappointed with cars stage 1..

    I can feel a new bike coming on. . :thumbs up:
     
  8. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in Team Sepang Audi RS3

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    Coming from a MK7 Golf R Apr stage 2 to my pfl I found the RS3 much slower.
    I think my pfl is equivalent to a stage 1 Golf R.
    Your car being 400 bhp standard you should’ve been somewhere between stage 1 + 2 but to be stage 1 you should’ve pulled away.
    The S3 tuned the same as the R and the extreme most it’d make is 410-415bhp but more than likely 390-400bhp
    Seems odd to be so close unless your cars making a bit less than expected.
     
  9. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    Stage 2 motors are generally 400 plus are they not?
     
  10. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in Team Sepang Audi RS3

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    Daz’s stage 2 Apr made 393
    Think Apr quote 389 so somewhere around those figures.
    Revo are much less.
     
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  11. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    The S3 is 381 and that's why I was surprised as I thought mine should be between 460-480, a no competition even though mine is heavier, curses pano roof, but it weren't...
     
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  13. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in Team Sepang Audi RS3

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    Wow didn’t realise the S3 was only 381!!!
    You should’ve ripped him a new ********,
    Think I’d be getting my money back and trying Apr.
     
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  14. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    Stage 2 Golf R’s/ S3’s are 11.7-11.8 best at 115-117mph or so. Stock facelift RS3 car should be doing it in the same time, around 11.7 at around the same terminals.

    Stage 1 FL cars on 99 octane should be doing the 1/4m in 11.1-11.2 at around 124-125.

    Difference between an 11.1 @ 125mph and 11.7 @ 116 is significant. People see 0.6secs of a difference and think “oh there’s not much of a difference then” - At what time was the quicker car doing 116mph or how much additional time would the slower car need to reach 125mph?

    Regardless, Stage 2 2.0t cars are just stock RS3 quick.

    If a Stage 1 FL RS3 is struggling to pull away then something somewhere is amiss. (Clearly)

    Dyno figures are just bollo*s. Stopped wasting my money on them many years ago. Vbox, Dragy and timeslips and terminals are much more reliable.
     
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  15. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in Team Sepang Audi RS3

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    What about getting the car on a dyno somewhere to see what it is producing?
    A least you’d know and could make any decisions from there.
     
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  16. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    What was your 1/4m time again? Are you not the guy that was confused with his oil temp readings vs IAT’s a month or so back? Comparing your oil temps against someone with a FMIC? If so, please bow out of this discussion gracefully.

    I actually find this thread comical as it indirectly proves the point that needs proving and you guys are arguing Black is White pretending you know what you’re talking about.

    I have a friend with a Stage 2 Golf R, I’ll try get a video of us together from a 30-130 to show you the difference between a Stage 1 2.5t vs a Stage 2 2.0t.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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  17. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Panther Team Nardo Audi RS3 TTRS

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    Stage 1 is a big difference. My car pulls like a train now. However, as @Leo-RS says, the standard intercooler is very poor.

    As for the stage 2 S3's, I've seen them running low 3's to 60mph and they'll probably be in the 8's to 100mph. A stage 1 RS3 could have as little as half a second advantage which when trying to test two cars on the road from a roll can be down to reaction time, and would also mean you're not going to walk away from the S3.

    Add in the fact that the S3 I assume has a decent intercooler and can do repeated runs in high temps without unduly affecting performance, against an RS3 with an engine that is known to run very hot, even when tootling along, and I'm not surprised it was close.

    Finally, when I had my stage 1 PFL I came up against what I assumed at the time to be a stage 2 FL S3 (certainly not standard, modded exhaust and loud etc) and we had to get up to some extreme speeds* before I could even pull a few car lengths on him.

    In summary @E15 I wouldn't be disappointed or surprised. If you're so inclined, get an intercooler upgrade. It'll give an extra 10-20bhp and will mean all that power whatever the weather ;)

    Oh, and your car will sound 100x better than that terrible sounding engine in the S3/Golf R's!

    *private track
     
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  18. monopole

    monopole Guest

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    I think you'll find you are the one that made all the presumptions, if you recall. I knew exactly what I was talking about.

    Just because you write increasingly long replies, doesn't make them any more credible than what anyone posts on here.
     
  19. voorhees

    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator Team V8 S tronic Audi S5

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    Lets not turn this into a bun fight please
     
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  20. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    As a reference, my oil temp was 102 degrees, this is higher than when it was stock at 94 so don't know if this would make a difference.
     
  21. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    No, you were mystified with oil temps not intake air temps. (You need to log these with VCDS) But let’s not go there.

    That’s true, my opinion is just that, an opinion but it is based on tens of hours of logging the car with VCDS to see what the maps are doing behind the scenes.

    Voorhees, no bun fight. If there’s any doubts of an intercooler there are some facts and figures below in the links.

    APR...

    https://www.goapr.com/products/intercooler_mqb_25tfsi_rs3.html

    Or this one from Forge...

    https://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/Intercooler_for_Audi_TTRS_8S_2017_Onwards--product--1636.html

    E15, no, it won’t at those temps.

    Summer is near ending so come October time onwards heatsoak won’t be as much of an issue in the U.K.

    Over and out on this one
     
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  22. AlexDR

    AlexDR Active Member

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    Did you buy your car to race and beat other Audis on the road? A few well documented incidents of that not ending well....
     
  23. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    Who said anything about racing?

    Is there a law against roll on comparisons on an empty road?

    Leave it out mate......
     
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  24. penetrator

    penetrator Well-Known Member

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    Video evidence required else it’s waffle lol

    So you just drive around sensibly 100% of the time?? Me thinks negative
     
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  25. X3man

    X3man Well known member Gold Supporter X3 M40i Carbon Black

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    Very odd (in my opinion) comments. You appear to be the 1st that thinks Stage1 is a waste of time and money. Bizzare comments about equipment not coping, and then comparing 5 pot to lighter 4 pot with Stage2...apples and pears
     
  26. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    Jesus H Christ..

    I said that it SEEMS to be a waste of money IF the oe intercooler can't cope with temperatures over 23 degrees..

    So in your superior opinion, would you expect a lighter, 4 pot stage 2 S3 to stay with a stage 1 RS3?
    I certainly wouldn't...

    Apples and pears my ****... :wtf:
     
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  27. X3man

    X3man Well known member Gold Supporter X3 M40i Carbon Black

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    jeez, take a chill pill. just think it is weird that you are saying OE IC "can't cope" with temp over 23 deg.
    Was the car not pulling anymore?

    Not superior at all mate, on the contrary, I know f'all. but I would expect (again only my opinion) a decently tuned S3 or R or similar 4 pot to more or less stick with Stage1 RS3, until you really get some open road/track etc. Roundabout to roundabout, with traffic etc, not really going to "pull away"

    Anyway, I will get back in my box
     
  28. aussieR

    aussieR Active Member

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    I think Doc summed it up well. A stage 2 s3/MK7R HO is a ****** fast road car. I've seen 11.5-11.6 1/4 mile times plenty of times and low 3s 0-60. It doesn't surprise me that at normal driving speeds there wouldn't be much difference.

    I think if the S3 had upgraded IC and ambient temps high would have had big advantage too. After reading this I looked up APR and their Upgraded IC gained 26hp and lbs over stock on stage 1 tune. If I was wanting to push car harder in the summer months on stage 1 RS3 I'd definitely be upgrading the IC and that comes from someone running stock IC on stage 2 HO tune on MK7R. I have scan gauge and monitor my inlet temps on that and no point pushing car when temps over 25 deg c IMO.

    I'm in Aust and have E85 readily available so if I had RS3 it would be E85 tune with upgraded IC and intake. I have no doubt that would be incredible.
     
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  29. penetrator

    penetrator Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been putting my stage1 against the following:

    2017 911 911.2 GTS 450bhp
    2017 M4cp 525bhp
    2016 M3 430bhp
    2014 Lotus Exige S 370bhp
    2010 911 997 GT3 440bhp

    All these cars are owned by friends and all races have been from Dig and from 2nd and 3rd gear pulls, all a win for the RS3 and most of them comfortable too, the closest test was the 2017 GTS that was about a car length in it but that’s more than likely down to Porsche superior aerodynamics.
     
  30. X3man

    X3man Well known member Gold Supporter X3 M40i Carbon Black

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    Some seriously impressive cars you whipped :icon thumright:
     
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  31. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Panther Team Nardo Audi RS3 TTRS

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    You beat the 525bhp M4 on a roll?
     
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  32. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    I'm the most chilled person you'll never meet chook but it's just that, again, I wrote IF the intercooler can't cope..
    If it can't cope then a stage 1 is a waste of time and money imo. What's the point of having 50-80 bhp available IF the oe intercooler can't cope and the system reels back the increased power?
    Even the UK gets over 23 degrees most years..
     
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  34. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Panther Team Nardo Audi RS3 TTRS

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    Unfortunately it seems the stock intercooler can't cope. I'm loathe to start modding hardware, too.
     
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  35. penetrator

    penetrator Well-Known Member

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    Yes mate, it just can’t put the power down. My M3 has 527bhp and 720nm and it doesn’t hook up until 3rd/4th Gear normally and by that time the RS3 is gone
     
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  36. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    Apples and pears bud.. :racer:

    And my heap can't even blitz an S3! :sob:
     
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  37. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting for the dyno graph but having spoken to Ecotune this morning, the car made 503lbs ft... :icon thumright:
     
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  38. penetrator

    penetrator Well-Known Member

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    Oh mate I’m not implying anything at all, I’m just passing on my experiences recently against some serious metal.

    Stage1 these RS3 are savage lol
     
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  39. Rayner_1704

    Rayner_1704 DAN

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    Around the 400 mark give or take a little
     
  40. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Here we go. Started to suffer from heat soak there after sadly!
     
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  41. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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  42. E15

    E15 Active Member

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  43. billyali86

    billyali86 Well-Known Member

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    I can understand the s3 keeping pace if your car was standard but if you are mapped then something is not right.

    But then people expect the difference between a 380 and 480 car to be massive on the road, its not. Not until you get to some silly speeds anyway
     
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