S3 stage 2 v RS3 stage 1

E15

Registered User
Had a bit of a comparison this morning with a mates S3 stage 2 and I have to say, there was nothing in it.
I know my car is heavier, just like the driver, but thought that there would have been a noticeable difference..

To say I'm surprised is an understatement ..
 

FBF01

Registered User
Surprises me that! Went APR stage 1 yesterday, 475bhp and 510lb ft...don’t think a stage 2 R/S3 would keep up. Lad who came down with me is in a stage 2 R and we went out in it afterwards and he was blown away.

What’s his pushing, like 420?
 
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D0C

Registered User
Had a bit of a comparison this morning with a mates S3 stage 2 and I have to say, there was nothing in it.
I know my car is heavier, just like the driver, but thought that there would have been a noticeable difference..

To say I'm surprised is an understatement ..
That's very surprising. Should be comfortably pulling away.

@FBF01 your torque figure looks a bit low?
 

E15

Registered User
Surprises me that! Went APR stage 1 yesterday, 475bhp and 510nm...don’t think a stage 2 R/S3 would keep up. Lad who came down with me is in a stage 2 R and we went out in it afterwards and he was blown away.

What’s his pushing, like 420?

Surprised me too.....
 

FBF01

Registered User
That's very surprising. Should be comfortably pulling away.

@FBF01 your torque figure looks a bit low?

Lol low, highest they’d seen. Maybe was lbs foot, but defo more than APR quote he said

Just checked. Lbs foot. My bad ha
 

E15

Registered User
Rolled on from a roundabout in 2nd, from 60 in 3rd and various other roll ons.
I was wondering if mine is fully loose at 2700 miles but even so, I thought the RS would've left it..
Slightly disappointed tbh.
 

FBF01

Registered User

E15

Registered User
Rolled on from a roundabout in 2nd, from 60 in 3rd and various other roll ons.
I was wondering if mine is fully loose at 2700 miles but even so, I thought the RS would've left it..
Slightly disappointed tbh.

Not disappointed but miffed.. :blush:
 

FBF01

Registered User
510lb/ft, gotta question that at Stg1, seriously

Made 460bhp first run, 2 runs there after 475. Torque was from 501 to 510.will upload the dyno when I get them. Said it was down on power from some at 485 they’d seen, but hadn’t seen a better torque curve
 

terminator x

Registered User
If both cars are similar power why would you be surprised? I was beaten by a Mk1 golf GTi at Rockingham but no surprise as it was not running standard power.

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
 

E15

Registered User
If both cars are similar power why would you be surprised? I was beaten by a Mk1 golf GTi at Rockingham but no surprise as it was not running standard power.

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
Maybe because his is 389 bhp and mine should be at least 80 more, that's why I'm surprised bud. .:blink:
 

Beebee-one

Registered User
Perhaps a classic case of dyno numbers not being reflected in the 'on the road performance'?
Monopole and I experienced this last year when a PFL car tuned by APR was reported to be producing some impressive dyno figures, in particular 465ps and torque output of 541lbs/ft. However, when it was ran against several other similar competitor tuned RS3's at Santa Pod it was not the fastest car.
Does the stage 1 RS3 have an uprated intercooler? The 5 cylinder engine suffers from heat soak especially after several WOT runs. The ECU will wind back the power by around 30 to 40ps to protect the engine until the IAT's drop back down.
 

FBF01

Registered User
If your referring to mine, no uprated intercooler. He did say it started to suffer with heat soak so didn’t attempt another dyno pull then mentioned I should look in to upgrading the intercooler.

It pulls ludicrously hard now, like crazy hard in 1st through to 4. Noticed the biggest difference in 4th and 5th gear...incredible. As i said, il try and get the dyno graphs and post them up.
 
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monopole

Guest
so a revo stage 1 map file varies between identical cars by ~80Nm?

Who was it on here got 615Nm with revo, compared to your 691Nm? I would expect a differential of maybe 20 give or take depending if the map was tweaked for the car but nearly 80 with the same file?
 

Leo-RS

Registered User
Facelift car? Stage 1 without an intercooler in the summer?

Needs no further explanation. Who is it mapped by?

You might get a decent set of headline figures in one 10sec pull on the dyno with the standard cooler but heatsoak the car by doing a lot of hard pulls and you’ll be running not much more than stock when your ecu pulls everything out.
 

Beebee-one

Registered User
A nice 2017 plate yellow S3 with APR stage 2 tune was posting consistent 11.7sec 1/4 mile at Santa Pod last month. That's a pretty good time and similar performance as my previous stage 2 tuned PFL car. The stage 1 FL tuned cars were posting 11.3 secs on the same day at an ambient air temp 0f 26 degC at the track.
The 4 pot engine at stage 2 in either the S3 or Golf R is a force to be reckoned with out on the road, it's not until you reach some very naughty speeds that the RS3 will begin to edge away.
 

FBF01

Registered User
Odd as I’ve no more exhaust rattle on start up lol
 

Leo-RS

Registered User
If your engine is already at sufficient temperature caused by ambient temps, (even if it is first thing in morning) the cold start map will not initiate.
 

E15

Registered User
A nice 2017 plate yellow S3 with APR stage 2 tune was posting consistent 11.7sec 1/4 mile at Santa Pod last month. That's a pretty good time and similar performance as my previous stage 2 tuned PFL car. The stage 1 FL tuned cars were posting 11.3 secs on the same day at an ambient air temp 0f 26 degC at the track.
The 4 pot engine at stage 2 in either the S3 or Golf R is a force to be reckoned with out on the road, it's not until you reach some very naughty speeds that the RS3 will begin to edge away.

That's something like what I said this morning. There was very little in it but mine was just edging it but as we got going, the difference was more apparent..

I enjoyed the drive but was just surprised a bit.
 

E15

Registered User
So it seems that having a stage 1 on a FL RS3 is a waste of time and money if the ambient temperature is over 23 degrees as the standard intercooler can't cope. Great.
:thumbs up:
 

E15

Registered User
How am I being unreasonable pray tell? I have an FL RS3 with a stage 1 and today a stage 2 S3 accelerated at nearly the same rate as me, something that surprised me, and then I read that the FL standard intercooler can't cope with the extra power during warm weather...
Totally unreasonable cynic indeed... :whistle2:
 

Leo-RS

Registered User
Well it’s not utter garbage. APR have tuned their map to pull aggressive timing when IAT’s are breached. Follow the US forums, follow the intercooler manufacturers to see what happens to the cooler after 4/5/6 repeated runs and then how long it takes the cooler to recover.

You will get away with it on a 10-15sec dyno pull but fit timing or logging equipment to your car and log 100-200kmh times run after run after run and you will see each time the 100-200 figures get slower and slower.

Standard turbo boosts at 1.3 bar and pulls timing out of the standard map after about 4-5 back to back 100-200’s due to high IAT’s.

Now boost the turbo up at 1.6-1.7 bar and it doesn’t take much at all to trigger the IAT map. We have had a crazy hot consistent summer now (relatively speaking for normal U.K. weather)

It was 30c a few days ago, even with the Forge cooler and Stage 1 I never even bothered my **** boosting the turbo. Too hot.

I guess because I consistently log my car, consistently time it, modded and stock, I see exactly what’s going on behind the scenes.

From my own experience, testing and logging. The standard cooler is utter garbage and it should be a necessity to fit a cooler to a stage 1 car. You can get it to pull timing on the standard map and 1.3 bar so go figure what happens on a Stage 1 car and 1.65 bar.

Go on the other forums and groups, tuner pages etc and they all say the same thing.

But my car ran an 11.3 on the 1/4m and got a 480 on the dyno? That’s great, you got those figures once or twice for a few seconds.

Just my 2p worth and it’s no more valid or true than Monopoles own testing. If the standard cooler suits some then great.

Against a Stage 2 S3 though suggests his car should be doing much better.

My Stage 1 TTRS is posting 10.5 1/4m times, completely different stratosphere to a Stage 2 2.0t screamer.
 
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monopole

Guest
Well, if you think a circa 90 mile drive back from Banbury and 140 mile drive back from SP with a car fitted with intake pipe and intercooler without losing pace after plenty of speed and hard pulls with said car at nearly 30dec a "few seconds" then you're right, I feel robbed.
 
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FBF01

Registered User

E15

Registered User
But I wasn't doing 'runs', I was driving on the road!

Getting stuck behind cars and other traffic and certainly not accelerating flat out for no more than a few seconds, so I stick to my opinion.
If an FL RS3 intercooler cannot cope with a stage 1 during 23 degree ambient temperatures it has been a waste of time and money!
Why offer something that the oe equipment cannot cope with?

Ffs. I only commented on my surprise that the S3 wasn't 'blown away', and how come a standard S3 intercooler had no such issues?
:wtf:
 

Leo-RS

Registered User
Strange strange thread.

Standard cooler obviously is up to the job then and everyone else in the tuning world is wrong.

Says some guy on the Internet.

Jesus.
 

FBF01

Registered User
lol
As long as your a happy bear mate the Bum Dyno is the best gauge

Delighted! Pulls crazy hard and literally flys in comparison to standard form. You notice more so on the tight and twisty roads, or familiar roads. I am surprised though that it made on the lower side of power but made the most amount of torque they’d seen. Torques what matters though.
 

Beebee-one

Registered User
Well it’s not utter garbage. APR have tuned their map to pull aggressive timing when IAT’s are breached. Follow the US forums, follow the intercooler manufacturers to see what happens to the cooler after 4/5/6 repeated runs and then how long it takes the cooler to recover.

You will get away with it on a 10-15sec dyno pull but fit timing or logging equipment to your car and log 100-200kmh times run after run after run and you will see each time the 100-200 figures get slower and slower.

Standard turbo boosts at 1.3 bar and pulls timing out of the standard map after about 4-5 back to back 100-200’s due to high IAT’s.

Now boost the turbo up at 1.6-1.7 bar and it doesn’t take much at all to trigger the IAT map. We have had a crazy hot consistent summer now (relatively speaking for normal U.K. weather)

It was 30c a few days ago, even with the Forge cooler and Stage 1 I never even bothered my **** boosting the turbo. Too hot.

I guess because I consistently log my car, consistently time it, modded and stock, I see exactly what’s going on behind the scenes.

From my own experience, testing and logging. The standard cooler is utter garbage and it should be a necessity to fit a cooler to a stage 1 car. You can get it to pull timing on the standard map and 1.3 bar so go figure what happens on a Stage 1 car and 1.65 bar.

Go on the other forums and groups, tuner pages etc and they all say the same thing.

But my car ran an 11.3 on the 1/4m and got a 480 on the dyno? That’s great, you got those figures once or twice for a few seconds.

Just my 2p worth and it’s no more valid or true than Monopoles own testing. If the standard cooler suits some then great.

Against a Stage 2 S3 though suggests his car should be doing much better.

My Stage 1 TTRS is posting 10.5 1/4m times, completely different stratosphere to a Stage 2 2.0t screamer.

That 1/4 mile time was on Sunoco 85R fuel though I guess? (at least that's what the Dragy app Leaderboard says)
 
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monopole

Guest
For stg1, I would say your power is pretty much ball park spot on, torque though...
 

FBF01

Registered User
M

monopole

Guest
Still, I'm surprised mine even manages to pull itself off the drive with a hint of sun, apparently, according to some bloke on the internet
 
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