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S3 stage 2 v RS3 stage 1

E15 Aug 5, 2018

  1. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    Had a bit of a comparison this morning with a mates S3 stage 2 and I have to say, there was nothing in it.
    I know my car is heavier, just like the driver, but thought that there would have been a noticeable difference..

    To say I'm surprised is an understatement ..
     
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  3. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    Surprises me that! Went APR stage 1 yesterday, 475bhp and 510lb ft...don’t think a stage 2 R/S3 would keep up. Lad who came down with me is in a stage 2 R and we went out in it afterwards and he was blown away.

    What’s his pushing, like 420?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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  4. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther Audi RS3 TTRS

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    That's very surprising. Should be comfortably pulling away.

    @FBF01 your torque figure looks a bit low?
     
  5. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    Surprised me too.....
     
  6. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther Audi RS3 TTRS

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    Can you elaborate a bit more on how you compared? What speeds etc.
     
  7. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    Lol low, highest they’d seen. Maybe was lbs foot, but defo more than APR quote he said

    Just checked. Lbs foot. My bad ha
     
  8. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    Rolled on from a roundabout in 2nd, from 60 in 3rd and various other roll ons.
    I was wondering if mine is fully loose at 2700 miles but even so, I thought the RS would've left it..
    Slightly disappointed tbh.
     
  9. monopole

    monopole reformation proclamation Team Floret Silver Audi RS3 Sportback

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    he may be referring to 510Nm you quoted @FBF01 , that pretty much lower than stock
     
  10. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    As above, I meant lbs foot
     
  11. monopole

    monopole reformation proclamation Team Floret Silver Audi RS3 Sportback

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    510lb/ft, gotta question that at Stg1, seriously
     
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  13. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    Not disappointed but miffed.. :blush:
     
  14. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    Made 460bhp first run, 2 runs there after 475. Torque was from 501 to 510.will upload the dyno when I get them. Said it was down on power from some at 485 they’d seen, but hadn’t seen a better torque curve
     
  15. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team V6 Audi RS4

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    If both cars are similar power why would you be surprised? I was beaten by a Mk1 golf GTi at Rockingham but no surprise as it was not running standard power.

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
  16. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    Maybe because his is 389 bhp and mine should be at least 80 more, that's why I'm surprised bud. .:blink:
     
  17. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team V6 Audi RS4

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    Well either he is lying or your car is running less power.

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
  18. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Well-Known Member Team Glacier Audi RS3

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    Perhaps a classic case of dyno numbers not being reflected in the 'on the road performance'?
    Monopole and I experienced this last year when a PFL car tuned by APR was reported to be producing some impressive dyno figures, in particular 465ps and torque output of 541lbs/ft. However, when it was ran against several other similar competitor tuned RS3's at Santa Pod it was not the fastest car.
    Does the stage 1 RS3 have an uprated intercooler? The 5 cylinder engine suffers from heat soak especially after several WOT runs. The ECU will wind back the power by around 30 to 40ps to protect the engine until the IAT's drop back down.
     
  19. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    If your referring to mine, no uprated intercooler. He did say it started to suffer with heat soak so didn’t attempt another dyno pull then mentioned I should look in to upgrading the intercooler.

    It pulls ludicrously hard now, like crazy hard in 1st through to 4. Noticed the biggest difference in 4th and 5th gear...incredible. As i said, il try and get the dyno graphs and post them up.
     
  20. monopole

    monopole reformation proclamation Team Floret Silver Audi RS3 Sportback

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    so a revo stage 1 map file varies between identical cars by ~80Nm?

    Who was it on here got 615Nm with revo, compared to your 691Nm? I would expect a differential of maybe 20 give or take depending if the map was tweaked for the car but nearly 80 with the same file?
     
  21. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    Facelift car? Stage 1 without an intercooler in the summer?

    Needs no further explanation. Who is it mapped by?

    You might get a decent set of headline figures in one 10sec pull on the dyno with the standard cooler but heatsoak the car by doing a lot of hard pulls and you’ll be running not much more than stock when your ecu pulls everything out.
     
  22. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Well-Known Member Team Glacier Audi RS3

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    A nice 2017 plate yellow S3 with APR stage 2 tune was posting consistent 11.7sec 1/4 mile at Santa Pod last month. That's a pretty good time and similar performance as my previous stage 2 tuned PFL car. The stage 1 FL tuned cars were posting 11.3 secs on the same day at an ambient air temp 0f 26 degC at the track.
    The 4 pot engine at stage 2 in either the S3 or Golf R is a force to be reckoned with out on the road, it's not until you reach some very naughty speeds that the RS3 will begin to edge away.
     
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  23. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    Odd as I’ve no more exhaust rattle on start up lol
     
  24. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    If your engine is already at sufficient temperature caused by ambient temps, (even if it is first thing in morning) the cold start map will not initiate.
     
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  25. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    That's something like what I said this morning. There was very little in it but mine was just edging it but as we got going, the difference was more apparent..

    I enjoyed the drive but was just surprised a bit.
     
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  26. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    So it seems that having a stage 1 on a FL RS3 is a waste of time and money if the ambient temperature is over 23 degrees as the standard intercooler can't cope. Great.
    :thumbs up:
     
  27. monopole

    monopole reformation proclamation Team Floret Silver Audi RS3 Sportback

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    Utter garbage
     
  28. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    What is bud?

    My comment, a stage 1 or an RS3?:blink:
     
  29. monopole

    monopole reformation proclamation Team Floret Silver Audi RS3 Sportback

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    Your previous post for being unreasonably cynical.
     
  30. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    How am I being unreasonable pray tell? I have an FL RS3 with a stage 1 and today a stage 2 S3 accelerated at nearly the same rate as me, something that surprised me, and then I read that the FL standard intercooler can't cope with the extra power during warm weather...
    Totally unreasonable cynic indeed... :whistle2:
     
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  31. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    Well it’s not utter garbage. APR have tuned their map to pull aggressive timing when IAT’s are breached. Follow the US forums, follow the intercooler manufacturers to see what happens to the cooler after 4/5/6 repeated runs and then how long it takes the cooler to recover.

    You will get away with it on a 10-15sec dyno pull but fit timing or logging equipment to your car and log 100-200kmh times run after run after run and you will see each time the 100-200 figures get slower and slower.

    Standard turbo boosts at 1.3 bar and pulls timing out of the standard map after about 4-5 back to back 100-200’s due to high IAT’s.

    Now boost the turbo up at 1.6-1.7 bar and it doesn’t take much at all to trigger the IAT map. We have had a crazy hot consistent summer now (relatively speaking for normal U.K. weather)

    It was 30c a few days ago, even with the Forge cooler and Stage 1 I never even bothered my **** boosting the turbo. Too hot.

    I guess because I consistently log my car, consistently time it, modded and stock, I see exactly what’s going on behind the scenes.

    From my own experience, testing and logging. The standard cooler is utter garbage and it should be a necessity to fit a cooler to a stage 1 car. You can get it to pull timing on the standard map and 1.3 bar so go figure what happens on a Stage 1 car and 1.65 bar.

    Go on the other forums and groups, tuner pages etc and they all say the same thing.

    But my car ran an 11.3 on the 1/4m and got a 480 on the dyno? That’s great, you got those figures once or twice for a few seconds.

    Just my 2p worth and it’s no more valid or true than Monopoles own testing. If the standard cooler suits some then great.

    Against a Stage 2 S3 though suggests his car should be doing much better.

    My Stage 1 TTRS is posting 10.5 1/4m times, completely different stratosphere to a Stage 2 2.0t screamer.
     
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  32. penetrator

    penetrator Well-Known Member

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    691nm = 510lbft??

    That does seem massively off TBF.
     
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  34. monopole

    monopole reformation proclamation Team Floret Silver Audi RS3 Sportback

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    Well, if you think a circa 90 mile drive back from Banbury and 140 mile drive back from SP with a car fitted with intake pipe and intercooler without losing pace after plenty of speed and hard pulls with said car at nearly 30dec a "few seconds" then you're right, I feel robbed.
     
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  35. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    lol all will be clear when I upload the dyno ha
     
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  36. E15

    E15 Active Member

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    But I wasn't doing 'runs', I was driving on the road!

    Getting stuck behind cars and other traffic and certainly not accelerating flat out for no more than a few seconds, so I stick to my opinion.
    If an FL RS3 intercooler cannot cope with a stage 1 during 23 degree ambient temperatures it has been a waste of time and money!
    Why offer something that the oe equipment cannot cope with?

    Ffs. I only commented on my surprise that the S3 wasn't 'blown away', and how come a standard S3 intercooler had no such issues?
    :wtf:
     
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  37. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    Strange strange thread.

    Standard cooler obviously is up to the job then and everyone else in the tuning world is wrong.

    Says some guy on the Internet.

    Jesus.
     
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  38. penetrator

    penetrator Well-Known Member

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    lol
    As long as your a happy bear mate the Bum Dyno is the best gauge
     
  39. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    Delighted! Pulls crazy hard and literally flys in comparison to standard form. You notice more so on the tight and twisty roads, or familiar roads. I am surprised though that it made on the lower side of power but made the most amount of torque they’d seen. Torques what matters though.
     
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  40. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Well-Known Member Team Glacier Audi RS3

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    That 1/4 mile time was on Sunoco 85R fuel though I guess? (at least that's what the Dragy app Leaderboard says)
     
  41. monopole

    monopole reformation proclamation Team Floret Silver Audi RS3 Sportback

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    For stg1, I would say your power is pretty much ball park spot on, torque though...
     
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  42. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    APR quote 475lb ft. I did have three runs and ranged from 501 to 510
     
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  43. monopole

    monopole reformation proclamation Team Floret Silver Audi RS3 Sportback

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    Still, I'm surprised mine even manages to pull itself off the drive with a hint of sun, apparently, according to some bloke on the internet
     
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