S3 S-Tronic Question

[h5djr]

That must be why I like the s-tronic so much. I only comply with one of those conditions!

And of course I preparing for my new R8, which is only available as an s-tronic. Obviously not suitable for Real men!!!

 

[S32B]

Found this which I thought was amusing:

An automatic transmission is a fine accessory to have -- if you consider the application of concealer to be a vital part of your daily routine. Automatic transmissions are for those who find driving to be a confusing task, for those who need to focus 100% on pushing one pedal, but unfortunately find themselves frequently distracted by things like mobile phones, makeup, favourite food items, and things that are shiny. One of the obvious downsides to this propensity to distraction is, when it comes time for these drivers to gently tug the steering wheel to either the left or right, they end up crashing into moving cars, parked cars or anything in their immediate vicinity.

Rather than admit that driving is a skill that needs to be practiced and mastered, the people who favour automatic transmissions blame their poor driving skills on everyone and everything else. “The tree jumped out into the middle of the road!” they will exclaim, quickly followed by a cry of, “There was no way to avoid it!” Of course, these drivers will be sure to omit the fact that they were texting, checking their lip gloss, and/or trying to master the use of the sippy cup holding their double tall nonfat chai latte - a things that the old bill will pull you over for.

You’ll never see a real man commit any of the driving atrocities mentioned above, because real men drive cars with manual transmissions. Real men understand that cars need three pedals, otherwise the vehicle is nothing more than a fancy golf cart. Men understand that driving is a skill, and that the best way to master this skill is to maintain absolute control of all aspects of a car at all times. If you think it’s better to let the car tell you what to do, you may as well turn in your testicles so that they don’t get in the way of your marathon sessions of watching Loose Women.

 

[musicegbdf]

Mmmm so F 1 drivers are not real men ?
You may find this interesting, but when I raced bikes we only used the clutch at the start . That was a push start , and we rode side saddle for first few hundred yards until we were clear and could mount the bike...then it was all clutchless changes

 

[S32B]

It's called banter!

When I drove articulated trucks many moons ago, I could change up and down the box without using the clutch, it's all about the revs!

 

[musicegbdf]

Yep , and a two stroke has little engine breaking , but we had to squirt fuel into the engine between down shifts.
My first race no one told me to blip so no oil (was mixed with the petrol , ahhh the smell of castrol R). Guess what first lap , third corner.... Engine seized, sky earth, sky earth ouch. My first race and my first crash. Back to pits , welding kit out , scrutinised back out for race two.
Oh to be twenty again
Back on subject , I find driving a 60 bhp three cylinder manual is actually fun , and I find the S3 Stronic fun as well. Maybe it is all in the driver. I used drive a 2cv and with Tha you had to drive flat out all the time.....

 

[WarwickL]

Nope not a UK thing.

The DSG is well known for being useless at rocking between D and R to extricate when stuck (yes even quattro) - in this instance a manual or traditional torque converter is streets ahead.

DSG is good at many things, but instantaneous engagement between D and R and vice versa (especially on an incline) is not one of them.

I must have a freak. Cool.

 

[h5djr]

I don't know a clutch less changes but all the military trucks I drove used to need a double de-clutch to change gear. No fast gear changes there. Still I'm sure it will be different in an R8!!!

 

[veeeight]

For those in denial about any delay in the DSG box - it is physically impossible for the box not to have a delay going from N to D1 (or S1).

When you are in N, the box has no idea if your next intention is to go forward, or backward.

What it does then, is to line up one of each onto the two shafts. It pre selects R on one shaft, and 2 on the other. It selects 2, because it cannot select 1, as 1 is on the same shaft as R.

So. Pre-selected, ready to go, is R and D2 (or S2).

When you do move the selector to D and accelerate immediately, it will start in D2 (or S2), and then it un-selects R and selects 1, and then electronically shifts you to D1.

All this, of course, takes time.

To reduce or eliminate this effect, shift from N to D, wait for 1 to 2 seconds, then when you move off (accelerate), you will move off in 1, instead of 2 (had you not waited).

 

[WarwickL]

For those in denial that the DSG is not useless for "5 point turns", or has some mysteriously long delay between D and R engagement, try feeding your unicorn.

 

[h5djr]

For those in denial about any delay in the DSG box - it is physically impossible for the box not to have a delay going from N to D1 (or S1).

When you are in N, the box has no idea if your next intention is to go forward, or backward.

What it does then, is to line up one of each onto each shaft. It pre selects R on one shaft, and 2 on the other. It selects 2, because it cannot select 1, as 1 is on the same shaft as R.

So. Pre-selected, ready to go, is R and D2 (or S2).

When you do move the selector to D, it will start in D2 (or S2), and then it un-selects R and selects 1, and then electronically shifts you to D1.

All this, of course, takes time.

To reduce or eliminate this effect, shift from N to D, wait for 1 to 2 seconds, then when you move off (accelerate), you will move off in 1, instead of 2 (had you not waited).

It also takes time to push in the clutch pedal and manually select the gear that you want. When I stop at a junction with my s-tronic in manual mode it has already selected first gear in the time it takes for me to look to see if it's OK to move forward. If I decide I want to go backwards and it takes the s-tronic a split second to change from 1 to R then so be it. I'm never in that much of a hurry!

Having driven both manual and s-tronic for many years I know which I think is the best for me, but I'm not a man according to S32B's definition.

 

[veeeight]

Mmm, but Dave, in a manual, you don't have to select 2nd first, then first, before moving forwards

 

[veeeight]

DSG boxes also aren't particularly good when executing J turns

 

[veeeight]

S-tornic v Manual threads, anyone?

They *always* end up the same way


http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...-on-the-8v-chassis.198794/page-2#post-2286214
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s-tronic-vs-manual.212225/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/anyone-with-s-tronic-miss-a-manual.210163/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s-tronic-question.209394/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/manual-or-dsg.178787/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/gearbox-a3-s3-what-have-you-got-ordered.226219/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-manual-or-s-tronic.247746/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-sportback-manual-stronic.235968/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s-tronic-vs-manual-poll.233189/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s-tronic-or-manual-which-is-better.241579/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/couple-of-s-tronic-usability-questions.252510/

 

[Pulp84]

S-tornic v Manual threads, anyone?

They *always* end up the same way


http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...-on-the-8v-chassis.198794/page-2#post-2286214
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s-tronic-vs-manual.212225/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/anyone-with-s-tronic-miss-a-manual.210163/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s-tronic-question.209394/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/manual-or-dsg.178787/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/gearbox-a3-s3-what-have-you-got-ordered.226219/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-manual-or-s-tronic.247746/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-sportback-manual-stronic.235968/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s-tronic-vs-manual-poll.233189/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s-tronic-or-manual-which-is-better.241579/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/couple-of-s-tronic-usability-questions.252510/

As in it really is a personal choice at the end of the day between s-tronic or manual?

That both have their plus and their negatives?

What a concept....

 

[veeeight]

As in it really is a personal choice at the end of the day between s-tronic or manual?
That both have their plus and their negatives?
What a concept....

I did try to sum this up many moons ago, but to no avail:


If you want to drive a car with 2 pedals, buy a S-tronic
If you want to drive a car with 3 pedals, buy a Manual

 

[musicegbdf]

I did try to sum this up many moons ago, but to no avail:


If you want to drive a car with 2 pedals, buy a S-tronic
If you want to drive a car with 3 pedals, buy a Manual

Can I have one with four ;-)

 

[veeeight]

Can I have one with four ;-)

Mercedes do those

 

[WarwickL]

As in it really is a personal choice at the end of the day between s-tronic or manual?

That both have their plus and their negatives?

What a concept....

Agree, you can't sum up the topic based on how many pedals you want because that is irrelevant to the decision (well, for all except unicorns it seems).

 

[veeeight]

Agree, you can't sum up the topic based on how many pedals you want because that is irrelevant to the decision (well, for all except unicorns it seems).

Only in your mind.

BTW. I'm sure we'd all like to see some video evidence of your S-tronic with this magical delay-less engagement, going from R to D to R to D to R to D, on an incline.

I'm sure VW and Audi would be most interested in it too, seeing as even they can't manage to perform that trick!

 

[WarwickL]

Only in your mind.

BTW. I'm sure we'd all like to see some video evidence of your S-tronic with this magical delay-less engagement, going from R to D to R to D to R to D, on an incline.

I'm sure VW and Audi would be most interested in it too, seeing as even they can't manage to perform that trick!

Ah see, there is your issue, you twist and reword replies to suit your own failings.

Your comment was it was "useless". So, that means of no use.

Useful to myself and others so it is your failing, not the gearbox or the car.

 

[veeeight]

It is "useless" at performing 5 point turns, in comparison to a manual, or a torque convertor box.
It is "useless" at performing a "rocking" manouver, in comparison to a manual, or a torque convertor box.

In both these instances, time and timing is of the essence, I did say that the 5 point turn "in a busy area" (post #110) - which means other traffic around, and the rocking relies on cadence and timing for a successful outcome.

Engagement delay, therefore, plays a part (or rather, downfall) in both these scenarios.

Yes, it is extremely interesting, no failings on my part, just yours, there is no twisting and re-wording on my part

 

[veeeight]

So, you said "no delay" - your words, no twisting or re-wording here....

Weird as mine is running a UK tune and yet no delay between D and R

Must be part of the magical Unicorn, as neither VW nor Audi can manage to make a DSG box with "no delay".

Truly tremendous.

 

[WarwickL]

So, you said "no delay" - your words, no twisting or re-wording here....




Must be part of the magical Unicorn, as neither VW nor Audi can manage to make a DSG box with "no delay".

Truly tremendous.

See, there you go again.

No one said "no delay" as defined by your "useless" reference. Not even the magical and wonderful manual drivers can do that.

You really need to read in context.

Here you go as you clearly forgot ...

S-tronic hell is doing a 5 or 6 point turn in a busy area.

The delay between R and D and R and D and R and D and R and D can start increasing in proportion to the shortness of temper.

As I said, not experiencing any of that delay.

 

[veeeight]

In whatever context you would like, "no delay" means "no delay".

It means "no delay".

Post up your "no delay" DSG gearbox video. You could potentially make a lot of money for VW Audi,


And you really need to read in context.
In both my examples (5 point turn in a busy area & rocking) - time is a factor.
Hence - "no delay" really does mean, "no delay".

Not even magical manual drivers can have "no delay", but manual drivers can influence timing and cadence, which is relevant.

 

[WarwickL]

It is "useless" at performing 5 point turns, in comparison to a manual, or a torque convertor box.
It is "useless" at performing a "rocking" manouver, in comparison to a manual, or a torque convertor box.

Useless means no use. Not less use, no use. Useless.

By your definition, the vehicle can only be driven in a straight lines

We all understand your frustration with your "use" or not of the S-Tronic and that it leads to your wild exaggeration of the reality

 

[WarwickL]

In whatever context you would like, "no delay" means "no delay".

It means "no delay".

.

Ah no. It was in direct reply to your post where I said I experienced none of that delay - the delay that frustrated you so much to say the S-Tronic was useless.

Frustrated drivers are dangerous. Best to stay with a manual.

 

[veeeight]

Useless means no use. Not less use, no use. Useless.

Correct.

It is of no use, in successfully extricating a stricken vehicle, out of deep mud/snow, utilising the rocking method.
There is too much engagement delay in the S-tronic gearbox.
A manual, or torque convertor gearbox, in exactly the same situation, will be successful.

The DSG, therefore, is "useless" in this situation.

Please learn to read in context.

 

[WarwickL]

Correct.

It is of no use, in successfully extricating a stricken vehicle, out of deep mud/snow, utilising the rocking method.
There is too much engagement delay in the S-tronic gearbox.
A manual, or torque convertor gearbox, in exactly the same situation, will be successful.

The DSG, therefore, is "useless" in this situation.

Please learn to read in context.

I successfully got ours off the beach yesterday rocking between the drive modes (M and R) - successful.

You also mentioned "useless" for turning.

Seems you have a unicorn or two in your cupboard.

 

[veeeight]

I successfully got ours off the beach yesterday rocking between the drive modes (M and R) - successful.
You also mentioned "useless" for turning.
Seems you have a unicorn or two in your cupboard.

Wow. I can get a bicycle off a beach too by rocking!
It's only when you get into a deep situation where the rocking of the DSG does nothing, whereas the rocking of the manual will, do you realise that in that situation, the DSG is useless.

 

[WarwickL]

And of course I preparing for my new R8, which is only available as an s-tronic. !

Serious on the R8 ?

If so, green eyed monster here.

Even with the "useless" S-Tronic that only drives in straight lines, I'd love to own one. Not sure it would make it down our driveway though.

 

[veeeight]

Ah no. It was in direct reply to your post where I said I experienced none of that delay - the delay that frustrated you so much to say the S-Tronic was useless.

Nope.

You really do have to learn (and understand) to read properly.


My post #110

S-tronic hell is doing a 5 or 6 point turn in a busy area.
The delay between R and D and R and D and R and D and R and D can start increasing in proportion to the shortness of temper.

Your post #111 - using the words "no delay"

Weird as mine is running a UK tune and yet no delay between D and R

I never used the word "useless" until post #117.

Hence - you were not in direct reply.
Your words - "Ah no. It was in direct reply to your post where I said I experienced none of that delay " is a falsehood.


Funny how you have to twist and reword things to suit your arguments

 

[veeeight]

You also mentioned "useless" for turning.

Show me where, find me the thread/post.
Or is this all in your imagination again?

 

[WarwickL]

It is "useless" at performing 5 point turns

I believe you were frustrated with the extra seconds "you" take in your turning manoeuvre.

Versus our manual, 5 point turns are for all intent and purposes just as easy, the wife actually prefers the S-Tronic in those situations

Maybe your frustration is impacting your driving ability ?

 

[veeeight]

I believe you were frustrated with the extra seconds "you" take in your turning manoeuvre.
Versus our manual, 5 point turns are for all intent and purposes just as easy, the wife actually prefers the S-Tronic in those situations
Maybe your frustration is impacting your driving ability ?

Try not to deflect, that was post #141.

You admit that most of your posts on this page are based on a faslehood then?
Your words - "Ah no. It was in direct reply to your post where I said I experienced none of that delay " is a falsehood.
Funny how you have to twist and reword things to suit your arguments.


Show me, or find me, where I used "useless" for turning?
Or was it all in your imagination - again?

 

[WarwickL]

I already posted a direct quote - perhaps you meant you find it less useful (which would not be useless)

 

[veeeight]

I already posted a direct quote - perhaps you meant you find it less useful (which would not be useless)

Where is this direct quote - of me using "Useless" with reference to turning?
Or are you confusing yourself with 5 point turns.

My first use of the word "useless" was in post #117, with reference to rocking. Not 5 point turns.
It was *you*, in post #129, that first used the word "Useless" with reference to 5 points turns. Not me. See below:

For those in denial that the DSG is not useless for "5 point turns", or has some mysteriously long delay between D and R engagement, try feeding your unicorn.

Looks like you're putting words into other peoples mouth and then pretending to yourself otherwise!

Where is this video of your magical DSG box, with "no delay"?
You could make a lot of money with it!!

 

[h5djr]

Mmm, but Dave, in a manual, you don't have to select 2nd first, then first, before moving forwards

But I don't have to select anything. I'm in manual mode and say 4th or 5th gear. I stop at a junction. As soon as I stop the s-tronic automatically selects 1st gear and as soon as it's clear I drive away.
If I was driving a manual I would come up to the junction in the same 4th or 5th gear. Stop and press the clutch, select 1st, release the clutch and drive away. The only major difference is that with a manual I have to select first gear. With an s-tronic the gearbox does it for me and without the need to use the clutch pedal.

This whole thread is becoming another which is best, manual or s-tronic. It may become totally irrelevant in the not to distant future because Audi seem to know which way they are going. Almost all of their top of the range models are becoming s-tronic only. How much longer before all of the models are the same. At the moment you buy which ever you think is right for you. The problem is that the s-tronic is reasonably new technology and a lot of people prefer to stick with the more old fashioned technology.

 

[veeeight]

But I don't have to select anything.

Correct!
The DSG has to do it all!

From standstill, in N, it has to select 2nd, then when it works out that you want to go forward (because you put it in D and accelerate immediately - it starts off in 2nd, then changes into 1st. All of which takes time. In this specific instance, the manual is "more" straightforward - because it doesn't have to do the pre-selection, and un-doing of R to give you 1st, then downshift.

This whole thread is becoming another which is best, manual or s-tronic.

'twas always thus.
Hence the numerous number of similar threads!

It may become totally irrelevant in the not to distant future because Audi seem to know which way they are going. Almost all of their top of the range models are becoming s-tronic only. How much longer before all of the models are the same. At the moment you buy which ever you think is right for you. The problem is that the s-tronic is reasonably new technology and a lot of people prefer to stick with the more old fashioned technology.

Agreed.
I have a DSG. I will probably have another DSG.
It does what it says on the tin for 90-95% of the time.

However, it isn't perfect, It does have its flaws, it does have its downsides.
But to listen to some of the sycophants on here, its the best thing since sliced bread, and has no ills.

 

[S32B]

I don't know a clutch less changes but all the military trucks I drove used to need a double de-clutch to change gear. No fast gear changes there. Still I'm sure it will be different in an R8!!!

I remember the older Foden's were a pain for gear changes Oh are you getting an R8? You didn't mention it!!!

I'll reiterate: From time to time my post include banter!!!! I do not mean to upset or cause offence to anyone!

 

[veeeight]

Until recently, the R8 had a R-tronic box. Now, *that* was a marmite box!

You really did have to "learn to drive the gearbox" (as opposed to driving the car), you do to some extent with the S-tronic to get the best out of it, but nothing like driving around the 'features' of the R-tronic !!