S3 Pinging after Revo stage 2

[Acheron]

Cleared codes the previous day and then he drove the car for a day before we read the trims.

He then removed the 4bar FPR, we cleared codes again and he drove for a day before we rechecked the trims.

Once we'd verified that trims had not changed a second time I cleared codes again, verified both partial and idle had reverted to 0%, let the car idle and monitored the idle trims adaption would change slowly in real time. They did not even though the bank sensor values fluctuated.

 

[<tuffty/>]

So fuelling trim wise looks ok then... logged timing pull? fuelling under load?

<tuffty/>

 

[Booth1982]

The car went in to a sort of soft limp mode or something so on one of the logs you will see that its not boosting much.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Any fault codes?

<tuffty/>

 

[16Klappe]

I love that as a forum we are free of charge doing more investigative work into this guys faults than the tuner that he paid.

Mega lols.

 

[Booth1982]

No Fault codes!

 

[Booth1982]

http://vid1288.photobucket.com/albums/b489/nbooth1982/intake - Copy_zpsvz0oczq6.mp4


could it not be this perhaps????

 

[antwan64og]

Thats why everyone uses reinforced silicon pipes.....

 

[Booth1982]

Yes I know that. I am still waiting for mine to arrive. our postal service is a bit shyte.

 

[badger5]

unlikely as that would show a sharp drop off and recovery of airflow under peak demand (typically on the 3500rpm-4000rpm) region

 

[Booth1982]

I don't know what else to do... . perhaps put the car back to stock and log then. or could it be the fuel pump??? any suggestions would be once again really appreciated

 

[badger5]

you would see fuel pump on 001 adaption... going more and more +ve trying to compensate for a falling pressure

 

[Booth1982]

Bump

Anyone?

 

[badger5]

bump for what?

its only doing 0.8bar boost in those logs?
why?

whats it requesting on 115?

 

[antwan64og]

When you pulled 188 G/S (235+/- HP) of air you were pulling 9 degrees timing at 100% throttle.
The most boost seen on the other logs show is like 1800mbar which is like 12 psi.
The other logs get up to 45 degrees IAT.

Bill at what IAT temp does ME7.5 pull timing?

 

[skiptowncat]

At times like this, it's best to go back to stock and see if the issue is still there. You know it's hardware related if it remains.

 

[badger5]

When you pulled 188 G/S (235+/- HP) of air you were pulling 9 degrees timing at 100% throttle.
The most boost seen on the other logs show is like 1800mbar which is like 12 psi.
The other logs get up to 45 degrees IAT.

Bill at what IAT temp does ME7.5 pull timing?

depends on what its been mapped to.
Std LCR 225 map is below for ref

 

[badger5]

this car actually healthy? - compression tested and leakdown tested to confirm?

clean throttle body pipe for example? no oil dripping out of throttle body

 

[scotty_24]

Bill that graph is really useful thanks for posting it. Basically keep the inlet air as cool as possible with a suitle cooler and WMI and it shouldnt pull timing for air intake temp up yo 30Degrees?

 

[antwan64og]

Bill that graph is really useful thanks for posting it. Basically keep the inlet air as cool as possible with a suitle cooler and WMI and it shouldnt pull timing for air intake temp up yo 30Degrees?

Even if he hit 50 degrees Centigrade IAT's it looks like you'd expect a 2.25 degree ignition timing pull at most not the 9 degree pull you get at 80 degrees.

Any logs from before the REVO flash to confirm the car seemed healthy?
The car isn't actually making any more boost than a stock Ko4 map right now......

 

[badger5]

Even if he hit 50 degrees Centigrade IAT's it looks like you'd expect a 2.25 degree ignition timing pull at most not the 9 degree pull you get at 80 degrees.

Any logs from before the REVO flash to confirm the car seemed healthy?
The car isn't actually making any more boost than a stock Ko4 map right now......

it does'nt work like that dude.. The timing pulled out of the ait compensation is before any CF pull which is responding to knock sensors. So if its hot it would have pulled timing out of the main map, and any subsequent CF on those logs is from knock sensors hearing shizzle

 

[badger5]

Bill that graph is really useful thanks for posting it. Basically keep the inlet air as cool as possible with a suitle cooler and WMI and it shouldnt pull timing for air intake temp up yo 30Degrees?

kinda..
CF is not a measure of air temp compensation map.
Its a reaction to knock sensors hearing stuff

Ait compensation map posted gets applied to the ign map(s) removing their timing.
CF timing pull is independant of this, but of course less actual timing request the less likely for knock sensors to hear det/pinking

and wmi helps both temps and enhances octane presuming meths used in the mix.. << both helping keep a lid on aits and subsequent cylinder temps

yada yada

 

[scotty_24]

Ahhh got you!
Love learning about my car, 4 years in to the slippery slope ha ha!

 

[Booth1982]

No Oil dripping from throttle body. the car was going pretty well before i went in for the map. its my first s3, so im not too sure what is should have been going like. I had the waterpump and timing belt and tensioner replaced, and along with the cam seals and the tappit cover gasket
about 2 months ago. other then that i have replaced the coilpacks aswell to the redtop ones. and it was serviced before I went for the mapp. I am now running bkr8 iridium plugs as per the revo tuner. When i serviced i put 6's as i didnt know 7's would be better.
I have replaced the n75,and DV, aswell. and that was all done since april. My silicone tip shouild be arriving tomorrow or the next day.

 

[superkarl]

I am now running bkr8 iridium plugs as per the revo tuner..

What?!
this is a big no no. 7s max! theyre too cold for a stock hardware car

 

[Booth1982]

I must add, the car went into what i can only explain as a sort of limp mode. when we were logging it. and then when i switch the car off and switch it back on it would boost to 1.3 /1.4. so the logs you have now are of when it was in the "limp" mode or whatever. and we scanned for error codes directly after that and got nothing. it was pretty hot on the day we were logging, i would say between 29 and 33 degrees C

 

[superkarl]

Yeh we can see its in limp mode from the low boost you logged in those runs.
You're still getting timing correction of 6+ while at low boost, 40degree inlet temps.
What are inlet temps like when not in limp?

Obv the ambient temperatures where you are arent ideal. Do you have a catch can fitted too? not recirculating ?

 

[Booth1982]

yes catch can fitted!!

 

[badger5]

your fuel grade may be abysmal of course which would account for high CF.

 

[Booth1982]

ok Tip fitted.

 

[Jenno007]

Where is that silicone hose going from the top of that T piece? A lot of people here wouldn't put a t piece on the FPR vacuum line in case of any leaks.

 

[Booth1982]

going to boost Gauge . should I change it?

 

[Jenno007]

To be honest it's highly unlikely to become a problem, but just something to consider in future

 

[Booth1982]

Ok cool thanks. hoping to get this car sorted before the end of the year. hate not knowing whats wrong.

 

[Jenno007]

It really seems like a combination of heat, poor quality fuel and a **** map

 

[Booth1982]

going to replace the fuel filter. maybe just maybe it helps. even though the one i have in not even 6 months old. not sure what else could be the problem. will try and make a plan to have my injectors cleaned as well. it couldn't hurt.

 

[Jenno007]

I'd be getting the stock map back on

 

[badger5]

going to boost Gauge . should I change it?

yes. keep fpr pipe for just it.

 

[badger5]

have you logged 001,031,115 fuel during an acceleration run? confirms fuels there

 

[Booth1982]

Ok a small update. i have put the car back to stock. it is still pulling timing although not as much but still enough to be a problem. I have done a fuel pressure test and there is no problem there. I was reading up on what could be causing this and came across this

O2 Sensor – Because of strict emissions these 1.8T’s are very sensitive to readings from the O2 sensors. 2001+ have a wideband front O2 sensor with high accuracy and a linear response. The car will adjust the fueling based on the readings from the sensor. If the sensor is over heated, exposed to lead (race gas), flooded with soot (too rich) or is just old, it can provide the car with false readings and the car will not provide the proper fueling. When the O2 sensors go bad and the ECU detects this the car will run on reserve fueling maps and will not be able to adjust for boost leaks, fuel pressure, MAF readings or any other parameter that affects fueling. To check for a bad sensor the first thing to do is run block 032 on the VAG com. If the sensors are bad, the readings will both be 0%, replace the Front O2 sensor. If the sensor is bad, it will also respond slowly, or reach a peak. Logging block 031 will show the lambda reading from the O2 sensor as well as the requested lambda from the ECU. To get air fuel ratio multiply lambda by 14.7. If the lgo shows the lambda jumping wildly when running through a gear, or perhaps it flat lines at an unreasonable level, then the O2 sensor should be replaced. It is a 50$ part. If the o2 sensors get shorted out or the wires get pulled, they will damage the ECU, be careful with the wiring on these sensors. 2000 and older cars do not have a wideband sensor, however they will still perform some adjustment of fueling based on the sensor. .

what i am wanting to know. the Sensor after where the cat would normally be. came loose awhile back, and i took it back to the guys that did the down pipe and they put a copper wahser on it and tightened it. could that sensor be damaged from the rattling, and causing the running lean issue? or can it only be the pre cat wideband sensor?